Details about the new 30 kWh pack

[evnow]

This is all we know about the new pack.

While the 24 kWh battery is composed of four cells per module (192 cells total), the new 30 kWh battery’s modules contain eight newly designed cells per module (192 cells total). Unlike conventional cylindrical batteries, the thin, compact laminated cells offer more flexibility in packaging and design applications. The 30 kWh battery weighs just 46 pounds more than the 24 kWh battery and has the same battery pack size and footprint.

So basically
- Same number of cells 192
- Double the number of cells per module (8 vs 4)
- So, Half the number of modules (24 vs 48)
- The 30 kWh pack weighs a about 7% more than the 24 kWh pack for 25% more capacity

So, the big question is - what is the size of the new module ? Is it the same size as the old one ... in which case, Nissan can put double the number of cells in the same package more than doubling the '15 range. Infact, if the 30 kWh pack uses only half the modules - if they are same size as the old modules - they can pack 60 kWh in the same space.

 

[KJD]

The other big change with this new battery pack is the capacity warranty is now 100,000 miles.

As evidence of a growing confidence in the 30 kWh battery’s cell chemistry (and the fact it will now take less battery cycles to go further), Nissan warrants battery loss below 9 bars of capacity (70%), for the first 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in the US and in Europe. The warranty on the S trim stays consistent with that of the 2015 LEAF, at 5 years or 60,000 miles.

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-107-miles/

 

[TomT]

I suspect that they are substantially bigger than the old modules...

So, the big question is - what is the size of the new module ?

 

[dhanson865]

The other big change with this new battery pack is the capacity warranty is now 100,000 miles.

As evidence of a growing confidence in the 30 kWh battery’s cell chemistry (and the fact it will now take less battery cycles to go further), Nissan warrants battery loss below 9 bars of capacity (70%), for the first 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in the US and in Europe. The warranty on the S trim stays consistent with that of the 2015 LEAF, at 5 years or 60,000 miles.

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-107-miles/

But if there are still 12 bars then each bar is a larger percentage and so you aren't getting any better warranty vs the likely range left at 9 bars right before you possibly miss out on the free replacement.

 

[evnow]

But if there are still 12 bars then each bar is a larger percentage and so you aren't getting any better warranty vs the likely range left at 9 bars right before you possibly miss out on the free replacement.

Better warranty because of 8 yrs/100k miles.

Anyway, let us keep warranty out of this thread.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

From the videos here, it seems clear that you cannot fit 60kWh of the new chemistry in the current Leaf's battery compartment:

http://insideevs.com/2016-nissan-leaf-battery-production-tennessee-b-roll-videos/

 

[TomT]

No, the percentages remain the same (or are likely to - we don't know the specifics yet), but the amount of Kwh represented by each bar or percentage point is larger with the bigger battery...

But if there are still 12 bars then each bar is a larger percentage and so you aren't getting any better warranty vs the likely range left at 9 bars right before you possibly miss out on the free replacement.

 

[GOEV]

I'm sorry if this question has been asked. If I own a 2013 S will I be able to replace my old battery with the 30kWh pack? If so how much would it cost? Thank you in advance.

 

[Sublime]

I'm sorry if this question has been asked. If I own a 2013 S will I be able to replace my old battery with the 30kWh pack? If so how much would it cost? Thank you in advance.

Nissan has said it would physically fit, but there are "other" problems with making it work (I assume BMS connections/software). In other words they don't want to.

 

[dhanson865]

No, the percentages remain the same (or are likely to - we don't know the specifics yet), but the amount of Kwh represented by each bar or percentage point is larger with the bigger battery...

But if there are still 12 bars then each bar is a larger percentage and so you aren't getting any better warranty vs the likely range left at 9 bars right before you possibly miss out on the free replacement.

agreed, that I poorly worded that. I was thinking of the exchanges in http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102&start=560 and would suggest anyone that found our exchange interesting go there to continue the discussion.

 

[DaveEV]

So, the big question is - what is the size of the new module ?

The new module appears to be the size of two old modules stacked on top of each other.

You can see this in the B-Roll video below (Found on InsideEVs yesterday). Look at 1:44-2:05 specifically. Interestingly, the battery assembly pictured from 2:15 and on appears to be 2013+ 24 kWh modules and not 30 kWh modules.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT28PeOxDfE[/youtube]

 

[Valdemar]

So, the big question is - what is the size of the new module ?

The new module appears to be the size of two old modules stacked on top of each other.

You said it, it is 2 modules and not one. I suspect this is just a normal 2013+ battery packaging. Or possibly 2 24kWh modules are now put into a bracket before they end up in the 2016 housing.

 

[RegGuheert]

I suspect this is just a normal 2013+ battery packaging.

No, it's not the 2013 battery module. I have held that module in my hand and it only has three terminals.

Or possibly 2 24kWh modules are now put into a bracket before they end up in the 2016 housing.

That's a possibility, but I suspect it really is the new modules for the 30kWh battery, since it exactly matches the description of having eight cells. This change eliminates two thicknesses of metal and therefore allows for more layers of battery material to be included, thus improving capacity without a significant increase in weight. Very clever evolutionary step by the battery engineers!

How they improve the battery warranty at the same time is what I haven't quite fathomed, yet.

 

[evnow]

How they improve the battery warranty at the same time is what I haven't quite fathomed, yet.

They think Lizard battery is better ?

 

[TimLee]

Is the marking with a Sharpie magic marker just a validation that a specfic visual inspection item has been completed?

With the older LEAFs, each can holds four large pouch-style cells, arranged with two parallel and two series. 48 cans, with 96 cell-pairs, 192 total. 96 x 4.1 volts = 393.6 volts for the pack. ...

With the official release of information on the 2016 30 kWh pack, we now know it has half as many modules and the same number of cells.
So the cells must be arranged four in series now, with two strings of four each in parallel for 8 cells per module to keep the overall series'd modules voltage similar to the 24 kWh pack design?
Which would mean cell balancing is now for four cells in series instead of two?
Does appear the modules are now twice as thick as they were previously, but same rectangular size.

 

[TomT]

My experience with it so far is making me think that it is not all that we were led to believe it would be...

They think Lizard battery is better ?

 

[DaveEV]

Which would mean cell balancing is now for four cells in series instead of two?

Balancing has always been done on cell-pairs and will continue to be done that way. You can't balance cells in series, you have to balance at a single cell level, or however many cells are paralleled together before wiring in series.

The 24 kWh module is 2P-2S (2 cells in parallel, 2 pairs wired in series), the 30 kWh module appears to be 2P-4S (2 cells in parallel, 4 pairs wired in series).

 

[RegGuheert]

How they improve the battery warranty at the same time is what I haven't quite fathomed, yet.

They think Lizard battery is better ?

On the contrary, the "Lizard battery" is the 24-kWh version shipping in the 2016 "S" which has the same exact warranty as Nissan retroactively added to the battery found in my MY2011 LEAF. The new 30-kWh version is the one that carries an 8-year or 100,000-mile capacity warranty.

 

[evnow]

Is the 30 kWh battery the same chemistry or different compared to the 24 kWh ?

 

[DaveEV]

Totally different.