Electric drive vehicle credit 8936 decreased/rejected by IRS

[Randy]

I also remember inputting the VIN number into Turbotax, but I think it was a Turbotax "worksheet" and not the actual form itself...

I guess I was one of the lucky ones, as our refund got processed and paid promptly.....

 

[ebill3]

... "here fill this out and we'll send you 8 grand"... tons of fraud, you can bet it's happening again on this. Just like the visa cash cards after Katrina, people won't hesitate to get in line for free money.

I was surprised when I heard that the form didn't require VIN and proof of purchase/registration to cut down on the fraud. I guess that wouldn't work well with eFile.

It did require VIN. I remember imputing it.

Sure did. Year, make, model, and VIN.

Very early filers went through quite easily. Then, as reported in this thread or another of the tax threads, the IG released his report of fraudulent claims that had been honored by the IRS. Everything from golf carts to Hummers. It seemed that IRS then put a brake on claims for the EV tax credit. To compound matters, when they started examining returns claiming the credit, they misinterpreted or did not fully understand their own rules and denied some or all of the credit for several deserving folks.

Hopefully for all those waiting, the IRS will get their act together.

 

[Boomer23]

Just a note of sympathy for you folks who are caught in this snafu. I feel for you.

Seems to me that because this credit was passed in order to encourage the adoption of EVs and this mess has happened at the IRS level, then some high level administration pressure needs to be put in place to resolve it quickly. Perhaps the Director of the IRS needs his feet held to the fire to put some additional expert resources in place to quickly resolve the most obvious cases of form number confusion and eliminate any claimed vehicle which is not on the very short list of applicable cars.

 

[oakwcj]

I filed on January 26 and I'm still in limbo. Early filing has nothing to do with it. Some unspecified percentage of returns claiming the EV and other large credits are randomly selected for review. My examination report concluded that I'd failed to document my claim for credit under Form 8396. I faxed my response about the transposed numbers ["8936" and "8396"] along with my bill of sale on May 8. On May 29, I got a letter from the IRS saying that my response had been received and that I should expect a reply by July 22. It should sort itself out in the end, and I'll be entitled to 3% compound interest from April 17 until my refund is paid.

 

[Cinnabar]

Thanks again to MNL forum, I'm not alone with my IRS issues.

I e-filed on February 12 (Turbotax) and have dutifully called monthly to find out about my refund status. Last month's answer was mortgage related, as they said my mortgage company had not sent documentation of interest paid.

Today it was about the EV credit. I was also asked to re-send the Form 8936 along with the "manufacturers certification" that the LEAF qualifies for the credit. It has been over four months and the person said they are scheduled to send out their first correspondence on Friday. They are also assessing an "accuracy penalty" of $1500 because the credit they are not allowing is over the $5k threshold. So they are penalizing me $1500 even though they have been holding over $10k of my money for over 4 months without contacting me or providing me with any communication.

Edit: I talked to Nissan North America (Nissan LEAF assistance) and they said this is what the IRS means when it asks for a "Manufacturers Certification":

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=230506,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NUTS!

 

[mwalsh]

I just got my letter today. Supposedly disallowed for not providing certification. So what's that...nobody seems to know. So we left it at me faxing in a copy of my purchase paperwork. I'm also going to fax a copy of that one page from the IRS webiste. Hopefully that'll do the trick.

Like I said earlier...f***kng IRS not knowing what the hell is going on! :evil:

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Just a note of sympathy for you folks who are caught in this snafu. I feel for you.

Same here I thought all was solved already that is way too long

 

[mwalsh]

IRS owes me for a new multi-function printer too, because I basically destroyed mine in anger when it refused to give me a fax confirmation report on the stuff I just sent to them! :twisted:

 

[derkraut]

IRS owes me for a new multi-function printer too, because I basically destroyed mine in anger when it refused to give me a fax confirmation report on the stuff I just sent to them! :twisted:

Hey Mike------no new printer for you; come back in one year.

Actually, I guess I shouldn't make light of your hassle with the IRS. Remember......your tax dollars are used to pay these guys' salaries. Now, don't you feel better already? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[sparky]

IRS owes me for a new multi-function printer too, because I basically destroyed mine in anger when it refused to give me a fax confirmation report on the stuff I just sent to them! :twisted:

Bummer. I paid the audit leprechauns at TurboTax $40 to deal with the IRS on my behalf. Seems like a good deal so far.
Uploaded the purchase contract etc. They called IRS, described the problem and submitted the docs requested by IRS to set things right. Supposedly, that will do it. All I got back was this. "We are writing to let you know that we have sent a letter on your behalf to the IRS in response to the notice you received from the IRS concerning your 2011 tax return.
Generally, it takes 8-12 weeks to receive a response from the IRS. We will contact you again after we receive a response. If you receive any communication from them please call, fax the information or send an email to me. Please remember not to respond directly to the IRS."
So, only 5-9 weeks to go! It ain't fast but it's been pretty easy so far.

 

[mwalsh]

It bothers me that we're being asked, after the fact, to provide ANY information regarding the vehicle's eligibility for the credit. The IRS should friggin' know it's eligible. And even if they don't, it should be down to the manufacturer to provide that documentation, once, so that each of us don't have to fax 18 pages worth of crap!

And if they don't actually mean certification, but actually mean a purchase contract, then why don't they friggin' say that in the letter instead of the vague crap they do write!

And if putting the vehicle's VIN on form 8936 was never sufficient proof, then why wasn't additional paperwork a requirement for getting the credit in the first place!

ARRRGGGH!

 

[Cinnabar]

I just got my letter today. Supposedly disallowed for not providing certification. So what's that...nobody seems to know. So we left it at me faxing in a copy of my purchase paperwork. I'm also going to fax a copy of that one page from the IRS webiste. Hopefully that'll do the trick.

Like I said earlier...f***kng IRS not knowing what the hell is going on! :evil:

I also got my package from the IRS yesterday. I will fax them my purchase papers, car's title, Form 8936, and the page from the IRS website. I was also told to make sure name and social security number is on every page.

Awesome news, only 8-12 weeks to get a response. Great ...

What a clusterf#ck.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Ok, finally, we got our refund today after filing in February. It was The Office of Congressman Jim McDermott that I believe finally moved the mountain. Several months ago I signed the appropriate papers and let them take over communication with the IRS, as it had become apparent that either a) the IRS doesn't know what the hell it's doing and or b) the IRS is actively delaying large refunds to manage cash flow by giving people the run around and or c) the more I wrangled with them the more likely I'd get audited... I needed a third party witness to the absolute BS I was getting in response to my inquiries. Jim McDermott's office took a copy of the sales receipt and sent it to the IRS public relations rep who added it to my file. I have no idea really if anything I've done made a difference but I did not have to supply any other pieces of information and magically the refund appeared after another many weeks of waiting. I am planning on summarizing my discontent and experience and sending it to all my reps. being left out on a limb over a large some of money without any formal written communication is absolutely unacceptable to me. We were gearing up for a full blown audit, and thankfully it did not come to that as I've heard they can be a nightmare.

One thing I'd recommend to folks is plan ahead on any year you intend to take advantage of a substantial tax credit. Do what you can to avoid having a large refund coming back on a year you have large tax credits and certainly don't bank on getting that refund quickly. We have substantially reduced our quartely payments/witholdings to avoid this happening again next year with this year's Leaf trade up. Our CPA tells us that a credit of over 10,000 automatically puts a red flag on your account for added scrutiny... can't verify this but we are assuming it's true. good luck to everyone still waiting and dealing with this mess!

 

[Volusiano]

Given what we know now about how you can get screwed up by the IRS like this, the only way I'm going to do it again next time, even if I want to purchase, is to lease to get the whole $7500 up front from the lease, then buy out the lease after a couple of months. No more dealing with the IRS on this, even though I'm one of the lucky ones who got his $7500 back cleanly this year without having to deal with them.

 

[sparky]

Given what we know now about how you can get screwed up by the IRS like this, the only way I'm going to do it again next time, even if I want to purchase, is to lease to get the whole $7500 up front from the lease, then buy out the lease after a couple of months. No more dealing with the IRS on this, even though I'm one of the lucky ones who got his $7500 back cleanly this year without having to deal with them.

+1; I didn't lease because I don't like having to mess with the car dealer and checklist years after driving off the lot. But, I think this IRS bumble-fest will have me do as you suggest next time.

 

[gascant]

I filed on April 2nd. Have not received a single communication other than to say that the part of my refund could not be applied to this year's estimated taxes. Perhaps time for a call to the IRS on Monday if I don't hear anything as others have. Agreed that sending in the purchase contract and proof of eligibility after the fact is WHACK!

 

[Cinnabar]

So I faxed 16 pages to the IRS yesterday. I included the examination report, Form 8936, the page from the IRS web site, my purchase papers, my title, my window sticker and a page of explanation. I will call in a couple weeks to see if there's an update. I was told you need to wait 10 days after you submit your response before contacting them.

So,

e-filed with Turbotax: Feb 11
Return accepted by IRS: Feb 12
Notified of audit via mail: June 25
Faxed Response: July 1
Full refund received: TBD

 

[jimbennett]

Battery life fear coupled with IRS fear made leasing a no-brainer...

 

[thankyouOB]

I sympathize with folks who are now a quarter-year behind in getting the refund.

However, I can see why the IRS wants to be careful with this and is running a strict audit program by selecting a high-percentage for review..
There is a history of ICE drivers filing for EV and other vehicle credits. These are tax evaders and other diehard anti-environmentalists who feel entitled to any tax cuts given to EVers.
Besides, it is another program that the ISSA-led Republicans will bust and do it LOUD, if there are abuses.
If you are looking for evildoers, you can look in those two categories.

The IRS cannot afford a scandal now that they know there are phoney filings.
You can read the IRS memo on this early in the thread.

here is the link:
http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141011fr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
it may answer some questions.

"As of July 24, 2010, we identified 12,920 individuals who e-filed their tax returns and erroneously
claimed3 $33 million in plug-in electric and alternative motor vehicle credits. We also identified
1,719 of the 12,920 individuals erroneously reduced the amount of the AMT owed by almost
$5.3 million."

 

[Cinnabar]

I sympathize with folks who are now a quarter-year behind in getting the refund.

However, I can see why the IRS wants to be careful with this and is running a strict audit program by selecting a high-percentage for review..
There is a history of ICE drivers filing for EV and other vehicle credits. These are tax evaders and other diehard anti-environmentalists who feel entitled to any tax cuts given to EVers.
Besides, it is another program that the ISSA-led Republicans will bust and do it LOUD, if there are abuses.
If you are looking for evildoers, you can look in those two categories.

The IRS cannot afford a scandal now that they know there are phoney filings.
You can read the IRS memo on this early in the thread.

I can see if you entered "Hummer" in the vehicle type, that the IRS might want to look at it. And I can see where the IRS would want to review a return for accuracy. But if you supplied the proper VIN and filled the required form 8936 out correctly, there is no reason to audit the return. All the information required for them to determine whether your are trying to commit fraud or not was supplied as requested. Just because the IRS did not have procedures in place to determine those who were committing fraud during their own reviews does not justify auditing those that were being truthful.