Electrify America Network

[SageBrush]

Rivian is working with Adopt-a-Charger to install L2 in several National Parks.
... ....
DCFCs outside the park are greater value.

Yosemite is ~ 1200 square miles. If viewed as a circle, 35 miles from the perimeter to the center. My suggestion is to encircle the park with DC charging, say near every entrance.

 

[GRA]

Rivian is working with Adopt-a-Charger to install L2 in several National Parks.
... ....
DCFCs outside the park are greater value.

Yosemite is ~ 1200 square miles. If viewed as a circle, 35 miles from the perimeter to the center. My suggestion is to encircle the park with DC charging, say near every entrance.

I and others here have been urging/encouraging/nagging the networks to do just that for at least the past five years. So far we've got two of the four access routes (120W: Groveland/Buck Meadows/Rush Creek Lodge; 41, Oakhurst) at least minimally covered, and still need DCFC sites on 120E (Lee Vining; see the "Expanding EV charging in Yosemite" topic for info on some limited progress there) and 140 in Mariposa if not El Portal, but given the traffic volume we'll still need L2 inside the park with the large elevation changes between points, especially outside of summer when heater use is common.

The shortest distance between realistic DCFC sites on the only east-west through route (Big Oak Flat Road - Tioga Road, otherwise S.R. 120 outside the park) is 69 miles from Rush Creek Lodge to Lee Vining. There's only a single CP FC and two L2s At Rush Creek Lodge and they'll most likely be occupied by people staying or eating there, so I consider the 350kW (two 350, two 150 + 1 50kW CHAdeMO) EA site in Buck Meadows (80 miles to Lee Vining) to be the closest reliable site at the moment, with the 2 50kW FC CP site in Groveland 11 miles further west as backup. As there's a net elevation gain eastbound between Buck Meadows (3,015') and Lee Vining (6,780') of 3,765 feet and a max gain of around 6,930' (Tioga Pass 68 miles from Buck Meadows is, depending on source, either 9,941', 43' or 45'), having chargers at Tuolumne Meadows (8,600', 60 miles from Buck Meadows, 20 miles from Lee Vining is very important now, especially as there are only two (free) L2s in Lee Vining currently, with the nearest FCs 25 miles north of it (the opposite direction from where most people are heading to/coming from) in Bridgeport (EA), or 65 miles south in Bishop (EA & Caltrans).

The importance of inside the park L2s will decrease as we get the FCs built outside the park and BEV ranges increase, but they will still be valuable at lodging and other longer dwell-time facilities by off-loading usage from FCs so the latter are available for people who need them, plus providing the occasional boost for people doing lots of driving inside the park. Unfortunately, the inside-the-park L2s are currently free. I've strongly suggested to NPS that they need to be pay to prevent hogging, but the previous payment system they were using was anything but reliable, and Rivian (and IIRR a California Cap and Trade grant) is currently paying for the electricity. I've been told they have the capacity to charge for the electricity if needed at some point. We'll see.

 

[WetEV]

The importance of inside the park L2s will decrease as we get the FCs built outside the park and BEV ranges increase, but they will still be valuable at lodging and other longer dwell-time facilities by off-loading usage from FCs so the latter are available for people who need them, plus providing the occasional boost for people doing lots of driving inside the park. Unfortunately, the inside-the-park L2s are currently free. I've strongly suggested to NPS that they need to be pay to prevent hogging, but the previous payment system they were using was anything but reliable, and Rivian (and IIRR a California Cap and Trade grant) is currently paying for the electricity. I've been told they have the capacity to charge for the electricity if needed at some point. We'll see.

Backasswards.

As BEV range increases, DCFCs become less and less important, and L2 at lodging becomes more and more important.


How far do people drive in a day? Sure, is a distribution rather than a number. But take about 7 hours of driving at 70 MPH average for a rough start.

If you had a BEV with 600 miles of range, you would use 7 hours * 70 MPH / 600 miles = 81% of the battery.

Survey: Who would rather plug in at the hotel and drive all day stopping as desired, repeat as needed?

Or needing to stop to charge during the day?

Think about it rather than replying.

Cost per mile for L2 should be less as the peak power demand is less. Demand charges for 10kW vs demand charges for 350kW. Night rates rather than peak rates. Not only more convenient, but cheaper. What more do you want?

 

[GRA]

The importance of inside the park L2s will decrease as we get the FCs built outside the park and BEV ranges increase, but they will still be valuable at lodging and other longer dwell-time facilities by off-loading usage from FCs so the latter are available for people who need them, plus providing the occasional boost for people doing lots of driving inside the park. Unfortunately, the inside-the-park L2s are currently free. I've strongly suggested to NPS that they need to be pay to prevent hogging, but the previous payment system they were using was anything but reliable, and Rivian (and IIRR a California Cap and Trade grant) is currently paying for the electricity. I've been told they have the capacity to charge for the electricity if needed at some point. We'll see.

Backasswards.

As BEV range increases, DCFCs become less and less important, and L2 at lodging becomes more and more important.


How far do people drive in a day? Sure, is a distribution rather than a number. But take about 7 hours of driving at 70 MPH average for a rough start.

If you had a BEV with 600 miles of range, you would use 7 hours * 70 MPH / 600 miles = 81% of the battery.

Survey: Who would rather plug in at the hotel and drive all day stopping as desired, repeat as needed?

Or needing to stop to charge during the day?

Think about it rather than replying.

Cost per mile for L2 should be less as the peak power demand is less. Demand charges for 10kW vs demand charges for 350kW. Night rates rather than peak rates. Not only more convenient, but cheaper. What more do you want?

While I'd love to see BEVs with 600 miles highway range, we're nowhere near that now and won't be for years, let alone at an affordable price. A Lucid Air has a practical Hwy range (see below for conditions) of maybe 350-400 miles Hwy when new, but how many can afford one? Right now, semi-affordable BEVs are limited to a practical Hwy cruising endurance (assuming a 20% reserve, and charging to 80% or at most 90%) of 2 +-0.5 hours, depending on the model and the conditions.

And you assume that everyone will stay at a lodging, which is certainly not the case in a national park. Even ignoring those of us who drive directly to a trailhead and park there before heading into the backcountry, lots of people stay in campgrounds. But NPS runs those, and as noted it's NPS policy to only put charging at concessioner-operated facilities. I was trying to get L2s and/or L1s put in at trailheads as well as campgrounds, and was told neither was going to happen for the above reason. Best we can do is some L2 at concessioner facilities close to campgrounds, e.g. Yosemite Lodge is across the road from Camp 4; Curry Village is within walking distance from the Pines campgrounds; the old Tuolumne Meadows gas station site is adjacent to the Cafe'/store and also the campground.

Also, the electrical infrastructure is limited inside parks, and for ideological reasons NPS has zero interest in expanding it to accommodate charging. Over the past 20 years or so they've removed two of the four gas stations (plus the Valley garage) inside Yosemite, and I imagine they'd like to eliminate the remaining two. They want to minimize car-support and maintenance facilities inside the parks, a philosophy I'm in general agreement with.

One of the reasons I want them to charge for electricity is that it makes shared chargers more practical, and also keeps dual-mode (short-term day vs. overnight) sites available during the day for those who really need the full power (and are willing to pay peak rates). People staying overnight will only use them at off-peak times and rates, and won't mind if they're only getting half the power from a shared charger. This maximizes the number of cars able to charge simultaneously from the limited supply.

 

[WetEV]

The importance of inside the park L2s will decrease as we get the FCs built outside the park and BEV ranges increase, but they will still be valuable at lodging and other longer dwell-time facilities by off-loading usage from FCs so the latter are available for people who need them, plus providing the occasional boost for people doing lots of driving inside the park. Unfortunately, the inside-the-park L2s are currently free. I've strongly suggested to NPS that they need to be pay to prevent hogging, but the previous payment system they were using was anything but reliable, and Rivian (and IIRR a California Cap and Trade grant) is currently paying for the electricity. I've been told they have the capacity to charge for the electricity if needed at some point. We'll see.

Backasswards.

As BEV range increases, DCFCs become less and less important, and L2 at lodging becomes more and more important.
Think about it rather than replying.

Cost per mile for L2 should be less as the peak power demand is less. Demand charges for 10kW vs demand charges for 350kW. Night rates rather than peak rates. Not only more convenient, but cheaper. What more do you want?

While I'd love ...

Here, let me try again. You ignored my point.

Assume that BEVs have ranges of 1/8 of the daily drive distance, assumed to be 8 hours of driving. Then they recharge once an hour. L2 at night provides somewhat more than 1/8th of the total energy.

Upgrade to BEVs with ranges of 1/4 of the daily drive distance. Then they recharge once every two hours. L2 at night provides somewhat more than 1/4 of the total energy

Upgrade to BEVs with ranges of 1/2 of the daily drive distance. Then they recharge every 4 hours. L2 at night provides somewhat more than half of the total energy.

Upgrade to BEVs with ranges of the daily drive distance. They recharge at night on L2, providing the total energy.

As range increases, then L2 at nightly stops becomes more important, providing large and larger fractions of supplied energy. DCQC becomes less important. As L2 is cheaper and more reliable than DCQC, this is a good thing.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I largely agree. Just use Lucid as an example. In a good day, if getting 500 mile range, you could go the whole day of driving without DC charging. Maybe just even L2 at stops of eat and bathroom.

It's only these Kansas runs that have me going over 500 miles in a day. My preference would be otherwise to cap at 400ish miles in a day.

 

[danrjones]

I haven't noticed any new coming soon EA stations around me (just ones that are broken!), but I have noticed new EA stations in AZ.

I saw one coming soon on Plugshare near Grand Canyon, and one in Payson AZ already under construction.
So it looks like the current EA phase might be more focused on outside CA.

Now if only they would fix their broken stations.
Certainly CA's mandate for 2035 is on shaky ground if we can't get about 99.99% reliability out of chargers.

Agree Dan. EA kiosks at Cost Junction are unreliable. I got 1 out of 4 to charge. Lot of time wasted and I only need a 10 min charge too to climb to Horseshoe Meadow. Caltrans kiosk was occupied or I would have preferred it. I now stop at the Caltrans first and the EA stations are the back up.

Paul

I have noticed the division creek Caltrans station has a very low rating on Plugshare. Any experience at that site? I was wondering if it is having a similar issue that I have seen at other sites - when the screen faces the afternoon sun, they turn black until you cool the screen off. If I remember correctly Caltrans turned the units 180 deg from the parking spot, which could mean the screen is facing west. Without a shade cover, that's just a bad idea in our area. Actually any direction without a shade cover is not a great idea. Have EA stations not had that issue? Instead they are just broken.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well, I have to disagree because

The network not only is adequate, its barely there in most places especially the one in question.

There are too few EVs with that kind of range so we are talking YEARS before it becomes mainstream

People will buy what they need and made do when its not enough

What about me and my reputed 20 year lifespan lowly 200 mile EV?


The real answer is we need a lot of EVERYTHING. When we finish STEP ONE, then lets talk about what is needed. FYI; the 200 mile EV will be mainstream for a long long time.

 

[paulgipe]

I haven't noticed any new coming soon EA stations around me (just ones that are broken!), but I have noticed new EA stations in AZ.

I saw one coming soon on Plugshare near Grand Canyon, and one in Payson AZ already under construction.
So it looks like the current EA phase might be more focused on outside CA.

Now if only they would fix their broken stations.
Certainly CA's mandate for 2035 is on shaky ground if we can't get about 99.99% reliability out of chargers.

Agree Dan. EA kiosks at Cost Junction are unreliable. I got 1 out of 4 to charge. Lot of time wasted and I only need a 10 min charge too to climb to Horseshoe Meadow. Caltrans kiosk was occupied or I would have preferred it. I now stop at the Caltrans first and the EA stations are the back up.

Paul

I have noticed the division creek Caltrans station has a very low rating on Plugshare. Any experience at that site? I was wondering if it is having a similar issue that I have seen at other sites - when the screen faces the afternoon sun, they turn black until you cool the screen off. If I remember correctly Caltrans turned the units 180 deg from the parking spot, which could mean the screen is facing west. Without a shade cover, that's just a bad idea in our area. Actually any direction without a shade cover is not a great idea. Have EA stations not had that issue? Instead they are just broken.

Dan,
Stations that are turned 90 degrees with a ramp are for disabled so they can use them in a wheelchair. But yes, sun damage is a serious problem on the East Side.

I haven't stopped at Division Creek but I saw that it has a poor rating. You might call Paul xxx in Independence with the Bolt shuttle service. He uses Division Creek to charge.

Looks like the airport station in Inyokern is not going to get fixed. It's still down. Brady's works and is a godsend. When is Rivian going to open up its stations?

Paul
Hot here 112 going to 115!

 

[danrjones]

Looks like the airport station in Inyokern is not going to get fixed. It's still down. Brady's works and is a godsend. When is Rivian going to open up its stations?

Paul
Hot here 112 going to 115!

About the same time Tesla goes open network?

Well, there is one thing - Rivian allows everyone on their J-1772, and while I wouldn't normally use it, it could be a life savor in a few cases.
Not sure if you just plug into their J-1772 or you need their APP. I'd go test it, but I just sold my Leaf and am waiting for my ID4. Any day now... would have waited but Carvana gave me an insane price.

The other thing, I don't see Tesla or Chargepoint or EA adding more stations on my side any time soon (prove me wrong guys!)...
... but looking at the Rivian map, there are two more coming in between Inyokern and Bishop. Maybe Lone Pine and Independence, or maybe Olancha and Big Pine, hard to tell. But if those were open network! However, last I saw, that huge charge park is still moving forward here in Ridgecrest, and I've yet to figure out who could be paying. I still can't fathom it being a local.

 

[GRA]

Backasswards.

As BEV range increases, DCFCs become less and less important, and L2 at lodging becomes more and more important.
Think about it rather than replying.

Cost per mile for L2 should be less as the peak power demand is less. Demand charges for 10kW vs demand charges for 350kW. Night rates rather than peak rates. Not only more convenient, but cheaper. What more do you want?

While I'd love ...

Here, let me try again. You ignored my point.

<Snip>

You ignored all of mine, which is that we're a long way away from mass-market BEVs that will provide ranges comparable to ICEs, or having charging infrastructure that is as dense and reliable as gas stations, or that a lot of people traveling to and staying in national parks don't stay in concessioner lodgings, and the people who don't are often those with the strongest motivation to use ZEVs.
We need as much outside the park FCs and (where possible/allowed) inside the park L1/2 as we can build, ASAP, but FCs are usable by and valuable to _all_ BEV park visitors, and L1/2 only at lodgings isn't.

Back on topic, via IEVS:

Electrify America Introduces Balanced Charging; New Naming Scheme
Welcome to a new world of power sharing and "Hyper" fast EV charging.

https://insideevs.com/news/609179/electrify-america-balanced-charging-hyper-fast/

 

[cwerdna]

If Tesla's CCS1 adapter is available in the US for significantly less than the $450 CHAdeMO adapter and supports higher power levels, I could see road trippers who travel in busy travel corridors on holidays (e.g. I-5 between Nor and So Cal) and where SC coverage is lacking while CCS coverage is better wanting to buy.

The are numerous videos of crazy Supercharger lines during holidays at the aforementioned corridor.

It's out now for $250: https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter.

 

[GRA]

After May EA didn't update the station count on their map for two or three months, and then I've been busy and hadn't posted the new total when they did. Here's their current number, and hopefully I'll be able to stay more up to date now:

Open 788/Coming soon 84,

which is an increase of only 30 open since May. For some reason both their website and app maps aren't showing coming soon sites at the moment, so I can't see if there are any new useful ones out here in the west.

BTW, the site in Santa Cruz at

FFF Santa Cruz - Riverwalk Plaza
700 Front St, Santa Cruz, California 95060

opened officially on the 19th (and was usable a few days earlier), although once again without notifying me with a text as it should have. This is the second or third time this has happened recently. Not sure what the deal is - EA used to be very reliable about sending notifications to me for sites where I'd signed up to receive them.

 

[cwerdna]

Free EA juice has been going on (now down to on/off, depending on where) since Sept 7th. https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/electrify-america-complimentary-sessions-stations-set-to-free.37983/page-10#post-764796 was the message that was previously up for over a week. I haven't broadcast it here since they only have 1 CHAdeMO plug per site and it could be down.

As I mentioned at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/electrify-america-complimentary-sessions-stations-set-to-free.37983/page-13, there are still reports of free juice today (9/30). If I had a CHAdeMO car, I wouldn't go out of my way to try but if in the area, it might be worth it to swing by to see if says complimentary session. Example at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/electrify-america-complimentary-sessions-stations-set-to-free.37983/page-9#post-764206.

Check Plugshare first and the EA app first.

 

[GRA]

On my trip from the 14th-17th, all the charging I did at EA sites was free.

 

[GRA]

EA updated their station count a couple of days ago, but now their map is no longer showing station and charger counts. From memory, the new numbers are 791 open/90 Coming soon, an increase of just 3 open stations in a month. Big whoop.

 

[GRA]

Electrify America’s first megawatt-level battery storage-backed charging station reduces stress on the grid

https://electrek.co/2022/10/19/electrify-america-megawatt-level-battery-storage-charging-station/

. . . With over 150 battery energy storage solutions already in place at stations around the US, Electrify America looks to demonstrate reduced stress on the electrical grid by use of these larger storage solutions and new solar canopies. . . .

Electrify America has installed BESS at over 100 stations in California alone, using Tesla Powerpacks as part of a deal made back in 2019.

Now, EA is upping the ante and will begin integrating even larger battery energy storage systems at the mega-watt level, beginning at the Electrify America station in Baker, California.

Electrify America unveiled its first station to receive the larger, megawatt-level system in a press release today. The Baker, California location has been expanded from eight fast chargers up to twelve thanks to the support of the new BESS. . . .

EA did share that it selected its Baker station to be the first to receive the megawatt-level energy storage system because of its remote location and its previous utility capacity constraints. The new system can store approximately 1.5 MW (3 MWh), bolstered by 66 kW of generation potential from a solar canopy – another first for the charging network debuting in Baker. . . .

The charging network states that its customers near Baker have already begun experiencing the revamped station and charging offload has already surpassed 1 MW of peak energy demand. Furthermore, all of that megawatt-level load has been delivered by the BESS and solar canopy alone.

 

[cwerdna]

Last night, I noticed Electrify America has been tweeting about some of their sites being upgraded to newer gen DC FCs. They also note whether or not the CHAdeMO charger has been upgraded.

Examples:
https://twitter.com/ElectrifyAm/status/1589733461081804800
https://twitter.com/electrifyam/status/1570093542445551621

 

[knightmb]

Last night, I noticed Electrify America has been tweeting about some of their sites being upgraded to newer gen DC FCs. They also note whether or not the CHAdeMO charger has been upgraded.

Examples:
https://twitter.com/ElectrifyAm/status/1589733461081804800
https://twitter.com/electrifyam/status/1570093542445551621

The ones that do say that ChaDeMo was upgraded still list it as 50 kW, how is that an upgrade? :lol:

 

[LeftieBiker]

They cleaned all the air filters?