encounters w/other Leafers w/surprising lack of knowledge

[speedski97]

So encounter was with A Uber driver at an LA DC fast charger. She wanted to buy a leaf, she was renting the Leaf she was driving for $4 an hour. She know the Fuel was free, knew the range of the car, and understood the charging of the car.She had no idea of no tune ups, no trans, and low upkeep. I thought it was a good way to introduce the car to a lot of people.

 

[Marktm]

It is actually astounding. I took my recently purchased used 2012 Leaf with 25,000 plus miles to a local dealer for a (late) battery check and the records showed only two items - a (free) battery check and a (free) recall. The owner confirming that he had not done any other maintenance -- with the exception of new tires (likely the fun factor - wore out the fronts).

 

[Woosie]

Awesome posts all!! I guess you'd call me a knowledgable ignorant, because as an engineer I don't care much for GIDS (though I do know Gary), since I manage the battery using the percent indicator. Works great for my 40-50 daily commute.

I love that the car does not use energy [essentially] when stopped so traffic jams are non issue except for the time lost. Actually I love lots of things about the car though like many I wish it had more range.

Reminds me of a call I received from my daughter who drove the car all day once while I was on a business trip. She asked "Can I drive the Leaf to Palos Verdes (from Torrance CA) on 26%?" I said "You shouldn't because you don't want to stop for L2 charging if the Low Battery starts blinking." She understood exactly what I meant because she listened for a few minutes before I left for the trip.

Other people you encounter will also listen and learn some keep spreading the EV gospel and it'll catch on eventually.

 

[kikngas]

It takes MUCH less land area to fuel the BEV than to grow fuel (1/100th according to the link, but I suspect it may be more like 1/10th as much). In many cases, the area used to fuel the BEVs is roof area, so it does not consume ANY additional land.

Let's see, 43560 sq ft per acre... grows... say 180 bushels of corn, which produces roughly 2.5gal of ethanol per bushel (assuming no energy to plow, plant, spray, harvest, transport (grain), dry, process, distill, transport (ethanol), and blend... that's something on the order of 450 gallons per nice farmland acre per year. (But you can put solar panels on crappy farmland too!)

Take my 11,000 mile year example in my LEAF. If you could get 40MPG on pure ethanol, you would need about 0.6 acres per vehicle year. Compare this to the 8 solar panels (see my earlier post) that get me enough electricity to drive 11,000 miles per year (my actual first year's mileage, national avg is closer to 13,000). Each panel is about 77 x 39 inches nearly 21 sq. ft. Add say 30% overhead for square footage needed for access roads etc. 8 panels uses about 220 sq. ft.

So, for a year (at my 11,000mi/yr usage level) of fuel:
solar uses roughly 220 sq. ft.
Ethanol uses roughly 26,000 sq. ft. (more, MUCH MORE, if you add in the other ethanol energy costs I touched on).

Pretty incredible! With an acre of solar, you could fuel 200 cars! Consider how much land is consumed by 200 car owners and the streets to get to their homes etc. I mean each car owner probably has 220 sq. ft. just in parking lot or driveway or garage space.

What's more, if you STOPPED refining gasoline for those cars (each getting about 25MPG, and using 440 gallons per year), you'd save enough energy by NOT distilling the oil, to go another 4,500 miles per car. Even after converting that heat energy into electricity in an inefficient power plant, transmitting it through an inefficient grid, and charging a car with an inefficient inverter. Wonder how many miles you'd get out of STOPPING driving the tractor, and the semi, and running the distillery, and the fuel delivery, ...and all of the fuel for all of the people driving to those workplaces? For the solar side, you'd have to figure some energy costs (pretty high actually) to refine the silicon, process the panels, shipping and installation of the panels, but after that, it's clean and virtually free.

 

[Lance96816]

Before my LEAF, I drove a 1980 CommutaCar everday.
I never did worry about my carbon footprint because I left that problem with the electric company.
Never did care about cost comparing because my 1995 Chevy Astro was costing me $95/week, 1983 Honda Helix, $26/week, and my 1980 CommutaCar $24/Month.
So no problem deciding on a LEAF when my Chevy died.
More happy now that I installed a TOU/EV meter. Now I'm doing $18/Month.
Towing as expected does decrease the range/mileage, but it's to be expected even with an ICE vehicle.
The efficiency range will be different pulling a 2k load with a Altima versus a Rogue.
Just have to make sure your Tank/Batteries has enough Gas/Power to make the trip.
Knowledge is power!

 

[cwerdna]

Ok, here's one, but with a Model S owner at the same free public charging who has had their car for 3 years. Sounds like she shares the car w/her husband.

She mixed up kW and kWh. We were talking about charging speeds and she blurted out some numbers about "17 kWh" and that the charging stations at the free public charging are that fast. I talked to her about how the Model S can have a 1 or 2 10 kW OBCs (and with the HPWC up to 80 amps, provided it's on the proper circuit and that DIP switches in the HPWC need to be set). Her car is a 60 kWh car (per the 60 badging). I also explained to her that EVSEs can be a bottleneck.

The EVSEs at this free public charging location are 30 amp, per their Clipper Creek labeling. I believe the line voltage is 208 volts (common commercial power), judging by what I see in Leaf Spy. I did the math for her showing 208 * 30 = 6240 watts or 6.24 kW and explained that after 1 hour, 6.24 kWh would've come from the wall.

I mentioned the Tesla UMC and how it can go from 120 volts to 240, up to 40 amps. I mentioned how usually at 120 volts, EVs are limited to charging at 12 amps at 120 volts, for 1.44 kW. But she doesn't charge at home. Again, she was confused and said... I thought oh... thought you could get 4 kW at 120 volts.

 

[cwerdna]

This one isn't that bad but I do wonder how many other Leafers have this misconception.

A few months ago at free L2 public charging, I unplugged a '13+ Leaf that was definitely done and I believe they had their charging lock switch rightfully set to AUTO. Anyhow, the young woman returned to her car and I told her I unplugged her because it was done. And yes, she knew about the AUTO position.

Then she remarked basically "oh... it's not quite full". She was going by the GOM and what that read. I told her essentially: nonono, look at the % SoC display and explained to her how the GOM "worked", in what cases it would be high, low, having miles go down rapidly or gaining them, etc.

I really wonder how many non-enthusiast Leafers believe their cars aren't getting fully charged because the GOM didn't return to some previous value or got "more full" because it was higher than a previous value.

 

[jkline]

I'm not surprised that most people have no idea how a car works. Any car.

 

[Lance96816]

:l olerfect car for dumb o manics...
Still get them...
Tire pressure? Every time when get new tires.
Oil & grease? As soon as the reminder light comes on. I'm at jiffy lube.
Transmission fluid? Jiffy Lube sends me reminders for that.
Brake fluid? Jiffy Lube takes care of everything.
How about washer fluids? Wait... Jiffy Lube right? Don't be silly! The car wash supplies their own.
Okay, I'm done. :lol: :roll:

 

[gshepherd]

Many driers don't know their car's average MPG. All they need to know is how far a tank takes them. As EVs become more popular with the general consumer, we'll see fewer enthusiasts and more "I just drive it" folks. Same thing happened with hybrids. That the LEAF or Tesla can work well for a non-enthusiast is in itself impressive.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ok, here's one, but with a Model S owner at the same free public charging who has had their car for 3 years. Sounds like she shares the car w/her husband.

She mixed up kW and kWh. We were talking about charging speeds and she blurted out some numbers about "17 kWh" and that the charging stations at the free public charging are that fast. I talked to her about how the Model S can have a 1 or 2 10 kW OBCs (and with the HPWC up to 80 amps, provided it's on the proper circuit and that DIP switches in the HPWC need to be set). Her car is a 60 kWh car (per the 60 badging). I also explained to her that EVSEs can be a bottleneck.

The EVSEs at this free public charging location are 30 amp, per their Clipper Creek labeling. I believe the line voltage is 208 volts (common commercial power), judging by what I see in Leaf Spy. I did the math for her showing 208 * 30 = 6240 watts or 6.24 kW and explained that after 1 hour, 6.24 kWh would've come from the wall.

I mentioned the Tesla UMC and how it can go from 120 volts to 240, up to 40 amps. I mentioned how usually at 120 volts, EVs are limited to charging at 12 amps at 120 volts, for 1.44 kW. But she doesn't charge at home. Again, she was confused and said... I thought oh... thought you could get 4 kW at 120 volts.

LOL!!

I will say you exhibited much more understanding than I would have. I would have told her "the car thinks its done and that is all that matters!"

 

[cwerdna]

At free public L2 charging yesterday, I encountered a driver (w/his SO) who was new to using the stations there. He was very low on juice so he had to charge. I'm guessing they found it via the nav system when they got either LBW or VLBW. (I heard the voice warnings as we were cycling thru power states.) They had a leased 2015 SV w/o CHAdeMO. He didn't know about at least these:
- capacity bars (but they don't really need to care)
- Nissan No Charge to Charge or the https://www.ez-charge.com/ (!) benefit - I couldn't tell them many details since I never qualified.
- may not have known about the Nissan Connect app as it wasn't installed on his Android phone. When I mentioned it may not work if the dealer hadn't activated the TCU, he said he didn't know if they did.
- % state of charge display (!) or any idea how to cycle thru and reset the dash displays (his 3rd trip odo was maxed out, didn't know about miles/kWh display)
- that he could unlock/lock the car via the outside buttons instead of pushing buttons on the fob (basically, he didn't know about Intelligent Key)
- didn't know the meaning of the low fob battery picture that came up in his dash display
- didn't seem like he knew about the energy info screen showing the power usage of the HVAC system, motor, etc. (was showing him power usage of heater while charging)
- his car had heated front seats and steering wheel, didn't know about those switches and the button for the steering wheel (forgot to tell him about the rear seat heater switch)
- Plugshare (and thus had no idea about access hours for some charging stations, we talked about (San Jose's) Premier Nissan's charging locations)
- Leaf Spy (I wouldn't hold people to not knowing about this)

At least he knew the GOM was crap, although he hadn't heard what we call it here.

From conversation, he said his sales critter knew almost nothing about the car and thus didn't go over any of the above with him. He said his dealer was in Fremont. I said "Premier Nissan of Fremont, eh?" Yep, was the answer.

 

[ElectricEddy]

At free public L2 charging yesterday, I encountered a driver (w/his SO) who was new to using the stations there. He was very low on juice so he had to charge. I'm guessing they found it via the nav system when they got either LBW or VLBW. (I heard the voice warnings as we were cycling thru power states.) They had a leased 2015 SV w/o CHAdeMO. He didn't know about at least these:
- capacity bars (but they don't really need to care)
- Nissan No Charge to Charge or the https://www.ez-charge.com/ (!) benefit - I couldn't tell them many details since I never qualified.
- may not have known about the Nissan Connect app as it wasn't installed on his Android phone. When I mentioned it may not work if the dealer hadn't activated the TCU, he said he didn't know if they did.
- % state of charge display (!) or any idea how to cycle thru and reset the dash displays (his 3rd trip odo was maxed out, didn't know about miles/kWh display)
- that he could unlock/lock the car via the outside buttons instead of pushing buttons on the fob (basically, he didn't know about Intelligent Key)
- didn't know the meaning of the low fob battery picture that came up in his dash display
- didn't seem like he knew about the energy info screen showing the power usage of the HVAC system, motor, etc. (was showing him power usage of heater while charging)
- his car had heated front seats and steering wheel, didn't know about those switches and the button for the steering wheel (forgot to tell him about the rear seat heater switch)
- Plugshare (and thus had no idea about access hours for some charging stations, we talked about (San Jose's) Premier Nissan's charging locations)
- Leaf Spy (I wouldn't hold people to not knowing about this)

At least he knew the GOM was crap, although he hadn't heard what we call it here.

From conversation, he said his sales critter knew almost nothing about the car and thus didn't go over any of the above with him. He said his dealer was in Fremont. I said "Premier Nissan of Fremont, eh?" Yep, was the answer.

Which is why when I encounter the above and more there is no hesitation for me to refer them to this forum.

 

[cwerdna]

Here's one but with a newer Model 3 driver. It was a newer 3 since I could hear its noisemaker.

I saw a red Model 3 pulling into a strip mall where I wanted to grab lunch. It was going around slowly and when I parked, the driver was confused and eventually backed into the stalls for Electrify America chargers. They were real slow and blocked another waiting ICEV in the parking lot for awhile. Was pretty comical to see that given that there are urban-style Superchargers in the same strip mall.

(This location has 1 CHAdeMO, several CCS and 1 J1772. She backed into a wider spot where CCS and CHAdeMO were reachable but probably not J1772.)

I came out and asked them if they (middle-aged woman) knew that they couldn't use the CCS chargers (car not compatible and no adapter yet) and that if they wanted to use CHAdeMO, they needed to have the $450 CHAdeMO adapter. They didn't seem to know anything about that. They knew the address of the strip mall which actually does have a bank of Tesla urban chargers but not on that side, where EA's chargers were. It seemed pretty obvious they were looking for Tesla charging, specifically urban/Superchargers.

I pointed to my Bolt saying I have CCS and can use those EA chargers. (And, I've actually used the CCS chargers at that location 3x, so far.) I pointed them to go around the corner and told them about the Hallmark store which is visible from the SCs, suggesting they look it up in their car. I showed them on my iPhone maps app.

I guess they're from out of the area or not familiar with that strip mall. I'd been to that Hallmark store numerous times for Shopkicks before and could see the urban chargers from there. Per Tesla's site, that site has 18 urban-style Superchargers.

 

[Lance96816]

There is a Tesla Dealer that comes to the free Volta Chargers in my center. They just sit there all day to charge.
Center Security says that the company have been cited many times, Security don't know if they are center customers or dealers cars.
But Security does cite them if they know it's them.
What a crap for the dealer to try and save a few dollars.

 

[cwerdna]

Here's a good one. I'm using free public L2 charging and I hear an engine making a funny sound. It turns out to be an i3 REx with its engine running so he's out of juice, A guy gets out and he's standing around talking to its driver, messing around on the front of the car. I'm thinking, what is he is doing? This isn't a gas station! i3 REx front flap is the cover for the gas hole aka freedom flap or flap of shame. Gas tank's in the front. Charging inlet is under the rear flap.

I get out and mention the above and he didn't know. I plug him in. We had a chat and they just got it used, didn't know about Plugshare, asked if the stations are free, etc.

He mentioned they tried to buy a Bolt the prices have gone up (e.g. $25K) and they can't get them as in the show up and get sold. I told him about the recall, my situation and Bolt ban at my work.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There is a Tesla Dealer that comes to the free Volta Chargers in my center. They just sit there all day to charge.
Center Security says that the company have been cited many times, Security don't know if they are center customers or dealers cars.
But Security does cite them if they know it's them.
What a crap for the dealer to try and save a few dollars.

That is the norm. EVERY free station is overrun by Uber drivers most in LEAFs. I had to give someone a ride home at 1 AM last Sat night (which I did cause I had Sunday off) So I swing by the dealership to plug in for a bit while waiting to pick her up. A minute after plugging in, a LEAF with a Uber sign attached to the roof of the car (like a taxi) pulls up right next to me. I notice he is glaring at me out of the corner of my eye. He is parked so close to me, it would have been a tight squeeze for me to get out so...I didn't. It was my plan to leave about 10 mins early (pickup about 3 mins down the road) but then decided I wouldn't be leaving until the time for pickup which would be ok since she NEVER actually leaves on time anyway. Didn't have to. After less than 10 mins, he left. Must have gotten a call or something.

 

[cwerdna]

Here's a good one. I'm using free public L2 charging and I hear an engine making a funny sound. It turns out to be an i3 REx with its engine running so he's out of juice, A guy gets out and he's standing around talking to its driver, messing around on the front of the car. I'm thinking, what is he is doing? This isn't a gas station! i3 REx front flap is the cover for the gas hole aka freedom flap or flap of shame. Gas tank's in the front. Charging inlet is under the rear flap.

I get out and mention the above and he didn't know. I plug him in. We had a chat and they just got it used, didn't know about Plugshare, asked if the stations are free, etc.

He mentioned they tried to buy a Bolt the prices have gone up (e.g. $25K) and they can't get them as in the show up and get sold. I told him about the recall, my situation and Bolt ban at my work.

So I've seen the above (black) i3 REx blocking the J1772 spots outside the above mall, not plugged in on another day.

Today, I dropped by at about 4:20 pm and barely got a spot. I had to spill over into a Tesla WC spot. 1 J1772 was in use by an a white i3 that just pulled in before me and was there first. One spot was blocked by the newbie's black i3 REx not plugged in. I couldn't open his charging door to plug him in and didn't know if he was done and some unplugged him then closed his door. Next spot was ICEd by a damaged Mazda. Next one over was taken by a Tesla Model 3 using a J1772 EVSE for some reason (there are only 4 but there are over 20 Tesla destination chargers (free) at that location)). That 3 was done, the green animation wasn't going.

I left eventually and returned at 10 pm. All the spots were clear except for that black i3 REx blocker. So, he'd been ICEing a spot for at least 5.5 hours! I charged for awhile and saw the driver come out and plug in his car! I had a chat with him asking him to not block these spots, describing my experience at ~4:20 pm, that I've sometimes been unable to charge due to blockers (sometimes having to park sideways, blocking cars and traffic) and so on. I told him it's totally cool to use these but please try to vacate promptly once you're done and don't occupy them if not charging.

Seems like that guy works at that mall. He said something about usually coming out on his break.