GE WattStation Problem Thread (Was: Dead on Day 2 of use.)

[jpokoraw1]

jpokoraw1, did you experience any AC line anomolies that you know of at the time of the failure? My understanding is that this failure is related to line voltage issues. I have a strong interest since I have a Leaf, a wattstation and live in Florida , land of lightning!

There was no reason to think there was.

The wattstation turned on normally, I plugged it into the car. It cycled. Then the breaker tripped. I then turned the circuit back on when the evse was still plugged in. I normally don't do that.

the watt station tried to turn back on right away since it was still plugged into the leaf. That's when it fried the on board charger.

I called GE and they told me that the fuses likely have blown and that I should replace them. If that doesn't work, then to send it in for a warranty repair. And that's fine, it would be easier for me to take care of it.

The whole thing is on a dedicated circuit.

 

[CHLPatent]

Not sure if this is related, but: http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/18/nissan-leaf-ge-wattstation-embroiled-in-charging-damage-shocker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The gist is: 11 Nissan Leaf owners who use the GEWattStation had charger issues.

GE says this: "We stand by our WattStation Wall Mount and Leaf owners should continue to use it. Regarding the problem cited in your story, GE and Nissan are aware of several isolated instances of Nissan Leafs experiencing on-board charging (OBC) issues when using EV charging units. Because the Wall Mount is one of those charging units, we are working with Nissan to determine the root cause of the identified issue. GE's WattStation Wall Mount has not encountered a similar issue with other brands of electric vehicles. - We are only aware of 11 Nissan Leaf owners who experienced this issue with a GE WattStation, and GE’s current analysis does not indicate that the WattStation is the cause of the reported failures. - If an issue does arise for a Leaf owner, the Nissan Leaf and the GE WattStation are both covered under their respective warranties. Nissan has also confirmed with us that charging at a GE WattStation will not void a Nissan LEAF warranty. - For your readers interested in the technical specs, GE’s WattStation Wall Mount is designed and tested to the SAE J1772 and appropriate UL standards and these tests have been validated by an independent third party. And there have been no design changes to WattStation since its 2011 launch. - As Nissan has said, this issue represents a handful of incidents out of millions of charging events involving the Nissan LEAF."

I use a GE WattStation (since Dec. 2011) and have had no apparent issues myself, for what it's worth.

 

[sub3marathonman]

The gist is: 11 Nissan Leaf owners who use the GEWattStation had charger issues.

...

I use a GE WattStation (since Dec. 2011) and have had no apparent issues myself, for what it's worth.

Wow, patent attorneys must be much easier going than the typical attorney. I'm not an attorney, but I'm outraged.

The facts are 1) The onboard charger from Nissan is defective, as Nissan has stated, 2) GE says, and Nissan refuses to comment, that other brands of EVSEs are also having this issue, 3) Nissan advises to"avoid charging during times when brownouts or momentary power dips may be likely." 4) Nissan can not tell me when these situations referenced in #3 will occur, so really their defective charger can be destroyed any time you are using the EVSE, 4) This is a very expensive part to replace, and will cause a great inconvenience to LEAF owners when it suddenly happens, 5) Nissan is counting down the days until their junk isn't their responsibility any more and the consumer will be stuck.

I have heard from another Wattstation owner that he just bought a different EVSE. That is fine if you don't mind spending an extra $1000 to attempt to protect what Nissan should have protected in the first place. And, since Nissan won't say, there is no guarantee that a different brand EVSE won't blow the diode either.

I am amazed at the cavalier attitude of the current LEAF owners. I can somewhat understand it if people are leasing, but I thought some people purchased the car at the end of the lease. Nissan refuses to accept my warranty claim. I submitted a complaint with the consumer division of the FTC, and I'm working on submitting one with the BBB there at their headquarters in Tennessee. As far as I know, nobody else has submitted anything anywhere. There should be thousands of complaints submitted, then Nissan might be forced to fix it.

 

[Nubo]

So whatever happened to the software fix Nissan were supposed to be working on for this issue?

To quote Top Gear,

"How hard could it be"?

 

[smkettner]

The facts are 1) The onboard charger from Nissan is defective, as Nissan has stated, 2) GE says, and Nissan refuses to comment, that other brands of EVSEs are also having this issue, .......

I have not read a post about any other brand evse involved with the issue.
I flat out don't believe GE. I think it is primarily a GE issue that exposes a weakness in the Nissan diode/charger.

 

[hill]

So whatever happened to the software fix Nissan were supposed to be working on for this issue?

To quote Top Gear,

"How hard could it be"?

Why presume it's either software or hardware - when Nissan STILL isn't saying. It's not important any way. What IS important - is that Nissan is STILL being tight lipped - even as Chelsea's interview is goin on ... and Nissan is claiming they're going to be more forthright.

 

[jpokoraw1]

(Update)

Nissan has replaced the onboard charger twice now. The dealership accepted my claim without hesitation. I was provided a rental vehicle both times.

Anyone who has a problem with the Wattstation and the leaf- who can't get service- should go over the dealer's head to speak with a corporate level offical in service. They are aware of the problem and it has been my experience that they accept full responsibility for the damage.

After the onboard charger broke the second time, Nissan sent engineers from MI and Japan to perform some measurements on my wattstation and their onboard charger. They were able to reproduce the problem and collected data... But there doesn't appear to be an easy fix.

As of today, I am charging with a modified trickle charger.

Therefore, it's my personal recommendation to anyone who is using the wattstation to stop using it. I have their latest software fixes, their latest hardware in my vehicle today. So too did the engineers, when they reproduced the problem on their vehicle and measuring tools. If I continued to use the wattstation, it would just be a matter of time before it breaks down again.

But, they are closer to fixing the problem now that they collected data from my house. So maybe there will be something out there soon.

 

[sub3marathonman]

(Update)

Nissan has replaced the onboard charger twice now. The dealership accepted my claim without hesitation. I was provided a rental vehicle both times.

...

As of today, I am charging with a modified trickle charger.

...

Therefore, it's my personal recommendation to anyone who is using the wattstation to stop using it.

So what does Nissan say about the $1000 WattStation that you now can't use?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

wow, after all this time we still dont have a solution and somehow its Nissan's fault? you have burned up two chargers (or done "something" to them) updated software and the GE device is still blameless while 40,000 other LEAFs using all kinds of different EVSEs are just happy as clams?

 

[Nubo]

wow, after all this time we still dont have a solution and somehow its Nissan's fault?

Yes, it's entirely possible that it is Nissan's fault.

you have burned up two chargers (or done "something" to them) updated software and the GE device is still blameless while 40,000 other LEAFs using all kinds of different EVSEs are just happy as clams?

Conversely, have other EVs experienced charger failures from the Wattstation?

 

[jpokoraw1]

wow, after all this time we still dont have a solution and somehow its Nissan's fault? you have burned up two chargers (or done "something" to them) updated software and the GE device is still blameless while 40,000 other LEAFs using all kinds of different EVSEs are just happy as clams?

I'm just telling you what the Nissan engineer told me. They took responsibility for the problem. I can charge just fine with the modified trickle charger, but when the leaf and the wattstation combine forces it trips the 40 amp breaker and destroys the onboard charger.

I'm fine with being patient. I trust they will find a solution and I'll be able to use the wattstation again in the future. I don't need the wattstation now. I got the wattstation with the idea that, in the future, the onboard chargers in future upgrades will take full advantage of the available power. So, I'm not ready to give up on it yet.

 

[jrreno]

I would be curious if the Nissan engineers gave any indication of the conditions that cause the failure. I have been charging my Leaf with my Wattstation since I got it in July with no issues.
My understanding is the failure is triggered by anomilies in the line voltage. What did they do to recreate the failure?

 

[Rauv]

No issues with my GE EVSE in 5 months charging every night. Fingers still crossed...

 

[financeguy]

Well I just blew up my Leaf with a Watts station. It was towed to my Nissan dealer and most of their questions to me have been what GE model, what is it's serial number, what is its Manufactured date. I get the feeling they're going to go with it's GE Watts fault but I don't know that yet. I called and was put on hold then transfer to an answering machine. I left a message asking for an update since they've had it for two days but didn't get a call back. I may post here again if I learn anything new. The dealer acted like they didn't know there was a problem with GE and the Leaf I told them do a web search. My Leaf is a 2012 and is one year old.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
It's just puzzling to me why Nissan hasn't deployed the software fix they mentioned awhile ago. So, people keep blowing their onboard chargers, costing Nissan $ and inconveniencing owners.

 

[mirko]

^^^
It's just puzzling to me why Nissan hasn't deployed the software fix they mentioned awhile ago. So, people keep blowing their onboard chargers, costing Nissan $ and inconveniencing owners.

This is the latest info that I have seen about the software fix that was posted in the LEAF advisory group by evchels...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10267&start=170#p246767" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the reminder about this- I meant to post on it earlier. I talked to someone about this when I was at NNA a couple weeks ago. He didn't know exact timing but said the update was already being applied to new vehicles and would go to dealers "soon" for the current ones. I assume that means within the next couple months, but will ask again. But I confirmed for sure that every single LEAF would get the update, so there's no concern of someone having the problem out-of-warranty because they didn't get the update in the first place. And obviously everyone is covered now, while waiting for dealers to get the update.

 

[financeguy]

Well here is my update on the 2012 Leaf. They installed the charger, tested the battery and charger, then did a computer update. The service man explained the problem is a number of "after market" units feed the power all at once. The Nissan "approved" charger starts out slower and builds up. The update tell the computer to go slow when first hooked up to 220 the ease up to full charging speed. So far it's been working, I hope this is the only problem I have so far its been a good car. I should add he wanted to put in a cabin filter and change the brake fluid. I pointed out it may be a year old but only 8000 miles so the filter should be fine and since there is no engine heat the brake fluid should also be fine. I should add he wanted $89 for each service, hummmm $190 for things I didn't need. I told him I had a spare filter at home ($10) so forget it.

 

[derkraut]

Well here is my update on the 2012 Leaf. They installed the charger, tested the battery and charger, then did a computer update. The service man explained the problem is a number of "after market" units feed the power all at once. The Nissan "approved" charger starts out slower and builds up. The update tell the computer to go slow when first hooked up to 220 the ease up to full charging speed. So far it's been working, I hope this is the only problem I have so far its been a good car. I should add he wanted to put in a cabin filter and change the brake fluid. I pointed out it may be a year old but only 8000 miles so the filter should be fine and since there is no engine heat the brake fluid should also be fine. I should add he wanted $89 for each service, hummmm $190 for things I didn't need. I told him I had a spare filter at home ($10) so forget it.

Congratulations for thwarting attempts by an unethical dealer to separate you from your hard-earned money for unneeded service.

 

[Nubo]

...The service man explained the problem is a number of "after market" units feed the power all at once. The Nissan "approved" charger starts out slower and builds up. ...

In the fine tradition of service-man BS.

J1772 is a standard, to which the LEAF must conform as well as the EVSE. There is no such thing as "Nissan Approved EVSE". And when the EVSE closes the contacts, full power is on the line. It doesn't "build up slowly".

 

[jpokoraw1]

I had another visit from the engineers from Japan. They explained the cause... and while I was not able to completely understand the explination, I'll relay the information I can remember.

It has something to do with the power button. If you turn the wattstation off quickly after disconnecting the charger from the leaf, then the next time you turn the wattstation on, there is something about the power-on cycle the wattstation goes through that when combined with turning off the wattstation earlier, will send a surge of energy to the leaf.

On the instrument the engineers used, to measure the energy coming in from the wall charger, there is an unusual initial push of amps that can measure upwards to 600 amps before settling into a normal alternating current. The wave looks like a tall mountain... then settles into a normal sine wave (is it sine?).

They then patched their test vehicle with a software update they drafted to recognize this kind of behavior... and they appeared to eliminate the problem.

So, once they make this software patch official, they promised to let me know as soon as possible to update my vehicle.

As it stands, I am still using my modified trickle charger until this update is published. I would recommend not using your wattstation until the next software patch is released.