Had the P3227 reprogram done today: interesting results.

[ttweed]

I called my dealer today and scheduled the 3227 firmware update. They told me they needed 4 hours to perform this update. This seems a little excessive. An early post on this thread reported 2 hours. What times have others experienced?

It took my dealer 1 hour yesterday to apply the update, do a free multi-point inspection, and wash the car.

Prior to the update, the car was showing 54.17 AHr and Health=78.17% on the LBA. Afterwards it showed AHr=58.53 and Health=77.19%. I don't quite understand why the Health number dropped 1%???

TT

 

[tivollix]

The car had to stay half a day at the dealer but it was done in less than 2 hours.
For the battery, it was showing 91.5% capacity and 91% SOH before the update.
Just after the update it was 94,5$ and 90%SOH.
2 weeks after it is 92.5% capacity and 85% SOH....

My car is from 2011/08 and 8K Miles. It has spent 1 year in California sitting a a dealer lot and another year in Canada.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I was told 2-3 hours. It took 75 minutes

 

[planet4ever]

I do not believe this software can give me more real range, because that is determined strictly by maximum and minimum battery voltages, not software

Of course it could, in theory, give you more range, because it is only the Lithium Battery Controller software/firmware which decides what minimum and maximum voltage limits to enforce.

Ray

 

[TomT]

And you would be right, it doesn't. What I believe happens after the reprogram is that the controller doesn't yet know the true upper and lower limits of the battery and is temporarily allowing you to use more of the top and bottom "forbidden" reserve until it figures it out... Thus, the temporary range increase.

I do not believe this software can give me more real range, because that is determined strictly by maximum and minimum battery voltages, not software

 

[EVerlasting]

I called my dealer today and scheduled the 3227 firmware update. They told me they needed 4 hours to perform this update. This seems a little excessive. An early post on this thread reported 2 hours. What times have others experienced?

I had to wait about 90 minutes too. I saw the technician placed a laptop on top my my Leaf and performed the update

I do not believe this software can give me more real range, because that is determined strictly by maximum and minimum battery voltages, not software, but I am hoping the temporary boost in Gids will delay the dropping of my first capacity bar. Two days ago "80%" charge stopped at 9 instead of 10 range bars, so I know the drop is soon without the boost.

I noticed that after the update the GOM now shows slightly reduced range and it is more realistic. I also noticed that recharging time has slightly improved (reduced).

 

[DaveEV]

I do not believe this software can give me more real range, because that is determined strictly by maximum and minimum battery voltages, not software, but I am hoping the temporary boost in Gids will delay the dropping of my first capacity bar. Two days ago "80%" charge stopped at 9 instead of 10 range bars, so I know the drop is soon without the boost.

If the firmware boost can carry me into the cooler Nov weather, I might be able to delay the bar drop for several months. Still having 12 capacity bars at 23K miles might enhance my Leaf's resale value.

In my experience, it took about 3 weeks before Ah readings got back in line with what they were before the update. If anything, I'd say they've settled in lower than they were before the update.

This chart illustrates nicely. First data point is May 1st. Last data point is Aug 19th. You can see when I had the update done. Current Ah reading is 55.81. Loss of 12th bar is eminent and should happen once I get below 55.75 which should be any day now.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

What I believe happens after the reprogram is that the controller doesn't yet know the true upper and lower limits of the battery and is temporarily allowing you to use more of the top and bottom "forbidden" reserve until it figures it out...

All indications is that it may give you more access to the bottom of the charge, not the top. Maximum voltages appear to be the same before/after the update.

 

[TickTock]

Thanks for the graph - good stuff! My experience is a little different, though. For me, my gids and Ah both increased after the sw update (on 7/10) but I am seeing no perceivable increase in range or 0-100 charge from the wall. In the graph below, I plot the power from the wall to go from 5 gids to 100% charge (extrapolating to 5 gids - typically I start from ~40) along with gids*.08 using the left axis along with Ah and my range (actual+remaining indicated on GOM) on the right axis. Vertical cyan line indicates when the sw update was performed.

 

[TomT]

Mine initially showed about 50 mv more at 100% charges than I had ever seen previously. It was back to my previous level within about three weeks.

All indications is that it may give you more access to the bottom of the charge, not the top. Maximum voltages appear to be the same before/after the update.

 

[DaveEV]

For me, my gids and Ah both increased after the sw update (on 7/10) but I am seeing no perceivable increase in range or 0-100 charge from the wall.

Even nicer chart! Unfortunately I'm not consistent enough with my data collection to get such good data.

Looks like your battery capacity has been pretty stable since June (at least the Ah reading is very stable since the update, energy from the wall may have a slight downward trend) - have you thought of drawing trend-lines in there?

 

[vrwl]

They had my car all day and then told me I might not get it back that day. Apparently there's only one Leaf Technician and there was another Leaf getting warranty work done. I'm wondering why they scheduled my car to come in that particular day if they knew the Leaf Tech already had his hands full. I pitched a bit of a fit about it and they got my car done by the end of the day, but who knows how long it actually took them to do.

 

[tbleakne]

And you would be right, it doesn't. What I believe happens after the reprogram is that the controller doesn't yet know the true upper and lower limits of the battery and is temporarily allowing you to use more of the top and bottom "forbidden" reserve until it figures it out... Thus, the temporary range increase.

I do not believe this software can give me more real range, because that is determined strictly by maximum and minimum battery voltages, not software

I agree something close to your explanation is most likely.

Consistent with other reports, my update was done in about 90 minutes, and they said they did the grabby break update as well.

Before the update:
"80%" charge -> 197 Gids, 70.1% Gids, idle 387.4V
9 charge bars at 80% had just occurred.

"100%" charge -> 236 Gids, 84.0% Gids, idle 394.5V
LBW -> 49 Gids, 17.4% Gids, idle 362.0V


After the update:
"80%" charge -> 212 Gids, 75.4% Gids, idle 386.5V
10 charge bars at 80% restored.

"100%" charge -> [will do 100% tomorrow]
LBW -> 49 Gids, 17.4% Gids, idle 360.0V

I am not sure the small voltage shifts at 80% and LBW are significant.
The voltage at VLBW would be more interesting, but I didn't take the time to take my battery down there. Does anyone else have voltage comparisons at VLBW ?

 

[jhm614]

Thanks for the graph - good stuff! My experience is a little different, though. For me, my gids and Ah both increased after the sw update (on 7/10) but I am seeing no perceivable increase in range or 0-100 charge from the wall. In the graph below, I plot the power from the wall to go from 5 gids to 100% charge (extrapolating to 5 gids - typically I start from ~40) along with gids*.08 using the left axis along with Ah and my range (actual+remaining indicated on GOM) on the right axis. Vertical cyan line indicates when the sw update was performed.

How far does your data go back? Any chance you could plot just the Ah out over a much longer period?

 

[TickTock]

Thanks for the graph - good stuff! My experience is a little different, though. For me, my gids and Ah both increased after the sw update (on 7/10) but I am seeing no perceivable increase in range or 0-100 charge from the wall. In the graph below, I plot the power from the wall to go from 5 gids to 100% charge (extrapolating to 5 gids - typically I start from ~40) along with gids*.08 using the left axis along with Ah and my range (actual+remaining indicated on GOM) on the right axis. Vertical cyan line indicates when the sw update was performed.

How far does your data go back? Any chance you could plot just the Ah out over a much longer period?

I have been logging data since Sept'11 here but didn't know how to read Ah until GregH solved that puzzle in June of this year. However, I did find one log file from Mar'12 where I was experimenting with the 79b messages (but not understanding the results) from which I was able to extract an Ah reading (single orange dot in the upper left corner). So here's a graph with all the Ah data I have (along with kWh from the wall and according to gids). The discontinuity in Aug'12 was from the first time my battery capacity bars were reset by the dealer prior to shipping it along with six others to the Stanfield testing facility.

 

[TickTock]

What do you believe your own pre and post update charge records show about accuracy?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An7gtcYL2Oy0dHNwVmRkNkFnaEVOQTVENW5mOTZlb0E&pli=1#gid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I been waiting for more data to make a call, but since that is months away I will go ahead and make some wild extrapolations based on the 2 weeks of data I have so far .
If you click on the graphs tab in the link you provided, you can see the graph below. but I will include a jpg, too. I have seen my gids (blue dots) increase since the update on 7/10, but no apparent increase in capacity as measured from the wall (green dots). Furthermore, if you squint and look at it sideways after having a couple of shots, you may conclude that the variation in the wall power *has* gotten more stable/consistent since 7/10. Time will tell... Be interesting if the large gid temperature variation I show also reduces.

I recently posted on a different thread contradicting my speculation here on the lack of increased range. Now that I have more data I think it tells a different story.


Here is my up-to-date capacity chart. I annotated the sw update on 7/10/2013 where you can see a clear increase in gids (blue) and a slight increase in wall power (green). I think my data does show that capacity (green) did increase slightly for me after the sw update although it took a week or two. Also, I am now seeing more volatility in the gids than I saw before the update.

 

[tivollix]

Hello,
Here is my data after my P3227 update. Leaf with low milage in mostly cold climate (Montreal, QC, Canada)
Update was done on August 14th, you can see the capacity spike, jumping from 91 to 94%

The gauge seems to have been overly optimistic before the update. My capacity has not stabalized 1 month after the update.

All the data here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1YaJGoW1QXYQzR3RHhmMkhucmM/edit?usp=sharing

Now the weather is cold again, close to freezing some nights and the capacity continues to drop. Went from 95,5% CAP to 86% in 3 month.

Does anyone have seen such a drop?
Thanks!

 

[DaveEV]

Does anyone have seen such a drop?Thanks!

I will plot mine again, but it was been steadily decreasing and not showing any signs of leveling out. I guess I shouldn't expect that since batteries only lose capacity, not gain capacity, but I would surely would expect capacity to level out in cool weather in your case. For me, it's cooled off a bit the last couple days, but still "warm".

For your car, it looks like you bought it used?

57Ah for 9,000 miles in Canada seems pretty low, even if the car is around 2 years old based on your VIN. I'd say that the BMS is still learning the capacity of the pack...

The last week I've tried using the Blink timer to avoid charging all the way up to 80% since I typically use about 30% SOC each day - I time it to get around 65-70%, then car sits all day around 50-55% and then sits at home around 40% until the timer goes off. I doubt it will make a significant difference at this point in the game, but isn't hard to do and a 10% reduction in average SOC in theory should be good. Anyone else notice that Ah seems to dip when SOC is lower and then bounces back up after getting charged?

Here's the latest chart of Ah on my car.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[tivollix]

Hello,
Thank you very much for your graph. It gives me hope to reach the plateau soon.

The capacity of the car was inline with aging model, I was expecting 8 to 9% degradation of the battery given the car usage and age.
The displayed capacity was above 94% before summer heat. After the hottest july days it dropped to 91%, this was perfectly matching the aging model. Then the P32237 update accelarted the drop. So it seems that the previous software was way too optimistic.

My usage is the same than yours. 80% every week days. With charge finishing just before use (6am). Then the car sits with 55% charge for 9 hours and spend the night at 30% it probably starts charging at 3:30 am. The car is never stored charged above 45%. Temperature was never extreme.

Now I just to have to wait it should plateau soon. I am expecting the plateau since 2 weeks now. I will post an update in a few weeks.

 

[supra410]

I lost my first bar Monday with an average 100% ending at 232 gids. I had the reprogram done yesterday and today's 100% yielded 256 gids. Still have 11 bars. Interesting results.

 

[vrwl]

I lost my first bar Monday with an average 100% ending at 232 gids. I had the reprogram done yesterday and today's 100% yielded 256 gids. Still have 11 bars. Interesting results.

Too bad you didn't get the reprogramming done right before losing that bar. You might have avoided the bar loss for this year.