Heartland Institute Building Anti-Science Curriculum

[Herm]

I dont specifically care about convincing herm.
Its a toy-debate, but we have to have it for real out there in the real world.
So practicing on conservatives at hand is not too bad. I dont meet that many where I live...

You should see me debating my conservative friends about EVs, AGW is never mentioned.

 

[klapauzius]

I dont specifically care about convincing herm.
Its a toy-debate, but we have to have it for real out there in the real world.
So practicing on conservatives at hand is not too bad. I dont meet that many where I live...

You should see me debating my conservative friends about EVs, AGW is never mentioned.

Right you are! EVs are not just for treehuggers, but besides being cool, they also
help save the planet...

 

[Stoaty]

I don't know why so many think it's necessary - or possible - to convince Herm that global warming is real, man made, and potentially very dangerous.

I am not attempting to convince Herm, I just don't think the kind of nonsense he posted should be left unchallenged. There may be others who read this thread, never comment, and learn something from it. Since the topic has been brought up, I think it is a good idea to have plenty of links to reputable sources for those who don't know much about Climate Change.

 

[Stoaty]

Climate Change: Insurers Confirm Growing Risks, Costs:

http://www.insurancenetworking.com/news/insurance-climate-change-risk-ceres-30007-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like they are in on the conspiracy. :lol:

 

[AndyH]

I don't know why so many think it's necessary - or possible - to convince Herm that global warming is real, man made, and potentially very dangerous.

I am not attempting to convince Herm, I just don't think the kind of nonsense he posted should be left unchallenged. There may be others who read this thread, never comment, and learn something from it. Since the topic has been brought up, I think it is a good idea to have plenty of links to reputable sources for those who don't know much about Climate Change.

Amen.

The sad part is that the time it takes to whack these misguided folks 'upside the head' could be used much more constructively fixing the problem.

 

[Clippy]

I don't know why so many think it's necessary - or possible - to convince Herm that global warming is real, man made, and potentially very dangerous.

I am not attempting to convince Herm, I just don't think the kind of nonsense he posted should be left unchallenged. There may be others who read this thread, never comment, and learn something from it. Since the topic has been brought up, I think it is a good idea to have plenty of links to reputable sources for those who don't know much about Climate Change.

Amen.

The sad part is that the time it takes to whack these misguided folks 'upside the head' could be used much more constructively fixing the problem.

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW? The last time I had a party at my house during the summer, I found I needed to turn the thermostat down a couple of notches. After everyone left, it got colder and I had to turn the thermostat back up. Just ask everyone to leave and you've solved the problem, right?

Luckily, I'm homeschooling my kids and while y'all can paint pictures of stranded Polar Bears and the like, we just had a discussion about Lewis and Clark and how their (and Jefferson's) dream may finally be realized. And most importantly, what are we going to do about it, e.g. this.

Skepticism is great at ages 6 and 8. If Muhammad Ali didn't say it, he should have.

 

[klapauzius]

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW? The last time I had a party at my house during the summer, I found I needed to turn the thermostat down a couple of notches. After everyone left, it got colder and I had to turn the thermostat back up. Just ask everyone to leave and you've solved the problem, right?

Luckily, I'm homeschooling my kids and while y'all can paint pictures of stranded Polar Bears and the like, we just had a discussion about Lewis and Clark and how their (and Jefferson's) dream may finally be realized. And most importantly, what are we going to do about it, e.g. this.

Skepticism is great at ages 6 and 8. If Muhammad Ali didn't say it, he should have.

Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
Lewis, Clarke and Jefferson had dreams about man-made global temperature increase???? :shock:

 

[Clippy]

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW? The last time I had a party at my house during the summer, I found I needed to turn the thermostat down a couple of notches. After everyone left, it got colder and I had to turn the thermostat back up. Just ask everyone to leave and you've solved the problem, right?

Luckily, I'm homeschooling my kids and while y'all can paint pictures of stranded Polar Bears and the like, we just had a discussion about Lewis and Clark and how their (and Jefferson's) dream may finally be realized. And most importantly, what are we going to do about it, e.g. this.

Skepticism is great at ages 6 and 8. If Muhammad Ali didn't say it, he should have.

Could you elaborate a little bit on that?

No.

 

[AndyH]

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW?

I beg to differ. Firstly, because I've been a 'conservative' most of my life. True conservatives understand the duty to steward (not rape) the earth.

The last time I had a party at my house during the summer, I found I needed to turn the thermostat down a couple of notches. After everyone left, it got colder and I had to turn the thermostat back up. Just ask everyone to leave and you've solved the problem, right?

No on two counts. First, you're describing a local and short-term challenge - this is weather, not climate. Second -...Ok, just ask everyone to leave - like the humans causing the problem? Drastic but I have to agree that it would be one solution. No on one count, then.

Luckily, I'm homeschooling my kids and while y'all can paint pictures of stranded Polar Bears and the like, we just had a discussion about Lewis and Clark and how their (and Jefferson's) dream may finally be realized. And most importantly, what are we going to do about it, e.g. this.

Skepticism is great at ages 6 and 8. If Muhammad Ali didn't say it, he should have.

Yuk. How many should die so that L&C's dream can be realized? (You know that L,C, and Jefferson are dead, right, and likely don't give a damn about what we remember of them?) Thankfully people homeschool for a a number of different reasons. My homeschooled son is plenty skeptical as well.

Congrats - you whacked a number of buttons! :lol:

 

[Clippy]

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW?

I beg to differ. Firstly, because I've been a 'conservative' most of my life. True conservatives understand the duty to steward (not rape) the earth.

Then you have a ways to go on your journey. There's this whole thing about individual rights you should look into.

The last time I had a party at my house during the summer, I found I needed to turn the thermostat down a couple of notches. After everyone left, it got colder and I had to turn the thermostat back up. Just ask everyone to leave and you've solved the problem, right?

No on two counts. First, you're describing a local and short-term challenge - this is weather, not climate. Second -...Ok, just ask everyone to leave - like the humans causing the problem? Drastic but I have to agree that it would be one solution. No on one count, then.

A closed ecosystem is a closed ecosystem. Only the variables change. Reducing the number of people would be the easiest and most effective way to solve AGW. Just look in the phone book (<-----"What's a phone book, Dad?") under Stalin. One of the more meaningful series of atmospheric studies was/were done right after the grounding of aircraft after 9/11. Hello? No airplanes? "Anybody got that climate data for the Ukraine in 1937-38?" "Colder than a Witches' what?"

Luckily, I'm homeschooling my kids and while y'all can paint pictures of stranded Polar Bears and the like, we just had a discussion about Lewis and Clark and how their (and Jefferson's) dream may finally be realized. And most importantly, what are we going to do about it, e.g. this.

Skepticism is great at ages 6 and 8. If Muhammad Ali didn't say it, he should have.

Yuk. How many should die so that L&C's dream can be realized? (You know that L,C, and Jefferson are dead, right, and likely don't give a damn about what we remember of them?) Thankfully people homeschool for a a number of different reasons. My homeschooled son is plenty skeptical as well.

Congrats - you whacked a number of buttons! :lol:

Thanks. Thinking is fun-da-mental, for some. The Northwest Passage is the Northwest passage. Just a bit further north. I see rich, Land Barron Eskimos. Today's Indian Casino, tomorrow's Cruise Ship tour stop.

You wouldn't like our school. We sung "Happy Birthday" to Charles Martel at the top of our lungs (on CM Day--sadly co-opted by skinheads).

 

[AndyH]

Of course you realize that it's the "whacking" that conservatives have the problem with. AGW?

I beg to differ. Firstly, because I've been a 'conservative' most of my life. True conservatives understand the duty to steward (not rape) the earth.

Then you have a ways to go on your journey. There's this whole thing about individual rights you should look into.

Your individual rights do not include the ability to destroy the air I breath or the water I drink.

As I said earlier... I have been blessed with two children, with one more on the way in July. It is shameful to me that in the short time between my childhood and that of my children, wilderness could be so threatened, and wild places so diminished. I want everything for my children that I had, and more, and I am obligated to try to ensure they have every opportunity to experience nature the way it was meant to be experienced. No one can take away that right.

http://www.repamerica.org/opinions/speeches/9.html

To twist Bill Engvall: Here's your dome. (Herm! You've got a new neighbor coming!)

 

[Clippy]

Your individual rights do not include the ability to destroy the air I breath or the water I drink.

Just when I thought we were getting somewhere.

(P.S. Yes they do.)

 

[DaveEV]

Your individual rights do not include the ability to destroy the air I breath or the water I drink.

Just when I thought we were getting somewhere.

(P.S. Yes they do.)

"Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins."

 

[Stoaty]

Your individual rights do not include the ability to destroy the air I breath or the water I drink.

(P.S. Yes they do.)

Well, that is certainly an honest reply, and it reveals a lot more about Clippy than he may have intended... sounds like something that ExxonMobil would believe (but never be willing to admit).

 

[klapauzius]

Your individual rights do not include the ability to destroy the air I breath or the water I drink.

(P.S. Yes they do.)

Well, that is certainly an honest reply, and it reveals a lot more about Clippy than he may have intended... sounds like something that ExxonMobil would believe (but never be willing to admit).

Wow...so where does that lead us?

If clippy thinks he has the right to destroy "the air I breathe or the water I drink", does that morally entitle us to self defence? Air and water are pretty essential for most of us.

Anyway, most of the things (including the reference to Stalin and 9/11) point to a certain stereotypical character anyway...

 

[Clippy]

Wow...so where does that lead us?

If clippy thinks he has the right to destroy "the air I breath or the water I drink", does that morally entitle us to self defence? Air and water are pretty essential for most of us.

Anyway, most of the things (including the reference to Stalin and 9/11) point to a certain stereotypical character anyway...

You may call me many things sir, but "stereotypical?" You have cut me to the quick.

I do not think I have the right to destroy "the air I breath or the water I drink."

It was pronounced that I don't have the "ability" to destroy. I said I did. If you believe this falderal about AGW, why is it that only the people who don't believe as you do are responsible? So, because I think the current state of climate studies is one resembling a Campus bake sale, I am going to destroy the planet personally? Is the environmental damage done a libertarian driving a BMW electric vehicle more or less than a socialist driving a BMW SUV?

So that you may know what I think about AGW, I'll be plain. I don't care. I'm not a climate chauvinist.

About Stalin and 9/11. In the period after 9/11 the scientists (remember them?) got out them slide rules and did them some science. Great.

Have you made a study of the climate in the Ukraine before, during and after the Stalinist purges of the 1930's? I see your new book now: Hitler's plan to rule Europe was thwarted by AGW, or rather the lack thereof, so sez (Your Name Here)...

Get to work.

 

[klapauzius]

I do not think I have the right to destroy "the air I breath or the water I drink."

It was pronounced that I don't have the "ability" to destroy. I said I did. .

I think you should carefully read your earlier post.


I still dont get the Stalin-Ukraine - Climate connection....would you care to explain?

To provide some historical facts:

Staling was committing genocide on the Ukrainians in the 1930s, basically by starving them
to death. Some estimated 7-10 million people died.

So what exactly has this to do with the current debate?

 

[Clippy]

I do not think I have the right to destroy "the air I breath or the water I drink."

It was pronounced that I don't have the "ability" to destroy. I said I did. .

I think you should carefully read your earlier post.


I still dont get the Stalin-Ukraine - Climate connection....would you care to explain?

To provide some historical facts:

Staling was committing genocide on the Ukrainians in the 1930s, basically by starving them
to death. Some estimated 7-10 million people died.

So what exactly has this to do with the current debate?

Because if the climate was changed even a tiny bit due to the, ahem, lack of the "A" variable, wouldn't that prove something?

I really have no need or desire to argue the point so I will leave you with this.

Get in your Leaf. Drive to a cemetery. Find the part where the folks who died had their picture on their tombstone. Look at one. Look at the date of death. Multiply that person by 1 times ten to the seventh. Then think about the willingness you have to harm other people because they don't think the way you do. Think about the bloody 20th Century.

Rather than re-read my post, I read Proverbs 12:15.

That's why the "Heartland Institute" is open for business.

You.

 

[klapauzius]

Then think about the willingness you have to harm other people because they don't think the way you do. Think about the bloody 20th Century.

Rather than re-read my post, I read Proverbs 12:15.

That's why the "Heartland Institute" is open for business.

You.

Sorry,nothing you say makes any sense...as I said stereotypical character.

 

[Clippy]

Then think about the willingness you have to harm other people because they don't think the way you do. Think about the bloody 20th Century.

Rather than re-read my post, I read Proverbs 12:15.

That's why the "Heartland Institute" is open for business.

You.

Sorry,nothing you say makes any sense...as I said stereotypical character.

That's it you win.

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