How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

[LeftieBiker]

BTW, does Leaf correctly show -ve F temperatures ?

If that means "below zero Fahrenheit" then yes, it seems to.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I took a trip yesterday (with an adult passenger) that illustrated how much temps below the mid teens Fahrenheit hurt range, and how relatively well the car does above that point. I had a medical appointment in downtown Albany, more than 35 minutes and about 22-25 miles from home. I knew it would be frigid, so I planned on using the lowest energy route, taking a flat and slow drive along the Hudson river, and on catching a partial charge at SUNY's downtown campus, which is only about 1 mile from Albany Medical Center where my appointment was. When we left it was about 0 degrees F at home, but it quickly dropped to -2F for the first half of the trip. Later it climbed in to the low single digits. At least it was sunny, with little wind. I preheated the car for 10 minutes, but just having two people open doors and get in chilled it off again immediately. I set the climate control to 69F and we draped a heated throw blanket over our laps (and my legs). The preheat takes some charge, albeit less than if the car weren't plugged in, so I started with about 99.1% charge (reading 100%).

I drove like the proverbial Little Old Lady, keeping the car just at the 30-45MPH speed limits along the river, until I reached the 55MPH (in theory) bypass highway that leads into Albany. There I kept it to 50-52MPH, with traffic whizzing around me, to downtown. That section was only about 3 miles, happily. After some low speed, stop and go city driving, we arrived with 55% charge left. I had turned the heat off a few times, briefly, as the car was pretty tolerable with the sunshine on the black interior. I calculated at that point that if conditions were the same on the drive home, it was a near tossup as to whether we'd make it before Turtle mode.

Leaving for home at about 10:15am, it had warmed up a bit more than I expected, but was still about 8F in Albany. I gently drove to the campus parking lot, and managed to not only find the ChargePoint station, but to find it un-ICEd and both spots available. We spend a chilly but tolerable 45 minutes or so under the blanket listening to XM radio, and added about 11.2% charge, bringing it back up to an indicated 66%. From there we made one stop to do some shopping at the food Coop in Albany, with the sun still warming the air. By the time we headed for home it was about 15-18F, and I noticed that the SOC wasn't dropping like a rock anymore; at one point I drove two miles with the heat off, at 55MPH, on 1%. It became obvious that we didn't have to worry about charge at those temps, so I left the heat on full time and drove at or slightly above (according to the speedo) the speed limits. We arrived home with 30% charge left, having traveled about 50.5 miles. Subtracting the charge added from charge remaining, it was clear that, because of the nearly 20 degree warmup, we could easily have made the whole trip without recharging or shutting the heat off - or even just lowering it a lot. 18% charge remaining would have been just inside the first low battery warning, and we wouldn't have gotten that until nearly home. I didn't reset the energy meter, but it was recently reset and would have changed if it were substantially different from the 3.4 MPKwh it was displaying at the start. It didn't change.

Conclusion: somewhere in the lower to mid teens Fahrenheit, the car's range goes up or down, depending on temperature trend, significantly.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I have found in my frigid trips (10f - -11f) that not all % soc's are equal. Some will give we near normal range others .1 miles. Still if you can go without heat, you can still go a reasonable distance.

 

[Elephanthead]

I am getting around 40 miles with heat on sparingly. I am losing a bar heating the battery in sub zeros. I haven't not made it home yet though unless you count trying to drive up a slight hill on ice. Not a pretty sight!

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

So, with Chicago weather hitting an amazing 45 degrees today, in the downtown garage my battery hit 51 F. On the 15 mile ride home, at 54-55 miles an hour, the GOM evened out with the %SOC (implying a 100 mile range at 100% SOC). With 256-7 GIDs left in my battery, that seems above the charts. Next time I will reset my efficiency, and see what the car is registering.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I reset my efficiency record for the drive into work last night. At about 20F it was 3.5 at the end, dropping from 3.6 in the little climb to the street I park on. I then reset it for the drive home at about 9F, this time a bit more downhill, and got 3.4. That's with regular snow tires on all wheels, and at speeds ranging from 30MPH at each end, to 40, 45, and 55MPH in the middle. Average speed work out to about 30MPH.

EDIT: heat was set to 70 for the drive in, and for 69F, then 70F later on, for the drive home.

 

[mynameisjim]

In Minneapolis with recent temps around zero I've averaged 2.6 miles/kwh. Little one often with me so the heat is 70F, and short trips (all less than 15 miles).

 

[nerys]

So. for you range experts. 54mile one way commute NO charge options (during the commute I will of course fully charge at work) SE Pennsylvania (levittown) to Egg Harbor City just outside atlantic city.

sadly no charging stations that I am aware of.

I know it can do it in nice weather I just did it today (just got the car last night 2012 leaf)

what are my chances of making this commute in freezing temps? (10-20 degrees F)

I am not hugely concerned I have plenty of other cars to use if it won't make it but no fun in spending money on gas if I can avoid it?

IE under what conditions would such a commute become dicey so I can plan ahead?

How do I know if I have a battery heater? can I add one? will pre heating the car use the battery or use the mains connection through the charger?

 

[LeftieBiker]

How much charge did you have left after doing the trip? Since you haven't described the route and the speeds you travel at, we have little to go on. Subtract 25% charge for temps in the teens, and plan on using the heater set to 68F. Generally speaking, that commute is nearly impossible in really cold weather unless you are driving very slowly..

 

[MikeinDenver]

How much charge did you have left after doing the trip? Since you haven't described the route and the speeds you travel at, we have little to go on. Subtract 25% charge for temps in the teens, and plan on using the heater set to 68F. Generally speaking, that commute is nearly impossible in really cold weather unless you are driving very slowly..

Heater set to 68??!? Are you wearing shorts in the winter?

 

[nerys]

I keep the house at 60 sometimes lower so I don't mind cool. as long as the chill is gone I am totally ok.

its 54 miles. 19057 intersection of rt13 and edgely road to 08215 egg harbor city (right on rt30 just before rt50)

over the burlington bristol bridge down jacksonville road to rt206 to rt30

max speed 50mph the entire way. (posted limit) average speed 35mph IIRC) stop and go in the beginning rt13 to the BBB to rt130 once on jackson ville typically 4 or 5 lights the rest of the entire trip to destination so a pretty constant 50mph non stop once on jacksonville

Here is the precise route I take with the start and end points anonymized (within half a mile of each point)

http://tinyurl.com/pmvseb7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I made it to work this time with 5 miles left BUT I started with a partial charge (said 65 miles) and I took a 10 mile detour (brother missed the bus so I had to go get him) so the meter was pretty darned accurate.

I now have a 100% charge so I will get a better "range" figure when I go home tonight and report that back here.

if it can't make it in dead of winter no big deal. I have plenty of other cars we only get a month or so of "truly" cold weather (ie snow and sub zero deep cold etc..) otherwise reasonable mild 20-30' weather.

An eventual plan is to carry a small genny with me like a honda i series (super quite) with 220v output. enough to get that little extra push if push comes to shove.

for now if I don't think it can make it I just won't use it. will take the minivan or the metro instead. no big deal.

 

[GRA]

I keep the house at 60 sometimes lower so I don't mind cool. as long as the chill is gone I am totally ok.

its 54 miles. 19057 intersection of rt13 and edgely road to 08215 egg harbor city (right on rt30 just before rt50)

over the burlington bristol bridge down jacksonville road to rt206 to rt30

max speed 50mph the entire way. (posted limit) average speed 35mph IIRC) stop and go in the beginning rt13 to the BBB to rt130 once on jackson ville typically 4 or 5 lights the rest of the entire trip to destination so a pretty constant 50mph non stop once on jacksonville

Here is the precise route I take with the start and end points anonymized (within half a mile of each point)

http://tinyurl.com/pmvseb7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I made it to work this time with 5 miles left BUT I started with a partial charge (said 65 miles) and I took a 10 mile detour (brother missed the bus so I had to go get him) so the meter was pretty darned accurate.

I now have a 100% charge so I will get a better "range" figure when I go home tonight and report that back here.

if it can't make it in dead of winter no big deal. I have plenty of other cars we only get a month or so of "truly" cold weather (ie snow and sub zero deep cold etc..) otherwise reasonable mild 20-30' weather.

An eventual plan is to carry a small genny with me like a honda i series (super quite) with 220v output. enough to get that little extra push if push comes to shove.

for now if I don't think it can make it I just won't use it. will take the minivan or the metro instead. no big deal.

Without knowing the condition of your battery it's hard to say, but I suspect you'll be doing your winter commute in one of your other cars. How many battery capacity bars do you have (the short lines to the right of the longer ones showing state of charge)? 12? Less?

 

[nerys]

the second skinny line is full (no more "bars" to light up all the way to do the top)

 

[GRA]

the second skinny line is full (no more "bars" to light up all the way to do the top)

Okay, you've lost less than 15% of your capacity, which is good for a 2012.

 

[nerys]

I would hope so with only 4800 miles on it.

but "I" will put 30k PLUS on it in the next 12 months.

 

[GRA]

I would hope so with only 4800 miles on it.

but "I" will put 30k PLUS on it in the next 12 months.

It's been found that degradation due to calendar losses are almost always greater than those due to mileage, with battery temperature and state of charge being the most critical parameters. Cars that have been sitting on dealer lots for many summer months at 100% charge before selling are often far more degraded than you would infer from their low odometer readings. Be sure to read the wiki for more details: http://electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best way to tell what's going on with your battery is to get one of the aftermarket OBDII devices and one of the smartphone apps like LEAFSpy.

 

[nerys]

Well I drove home tonight just shy of 54 miles. I started with roughly 95% charge? Said it needed 1 more hour for 100% said I could go 104 miles this rapidly dropped to 97.

I got home 42 miles left. Nice. Very nice. This was pretty ideal conditions. 71' light traffic no accessory usage except lights and stereo.

Very promising. That is a nice buffer. So the eventual 97m estimate was surprisingly accurate. At least for my commute in optimal conditions. The lost mile or so I guess was the headlights?

 

[dgpcolorado]

...what are my chances of making this commute in freezing temps? (10-20 degrees F)...

I keep the house at 60 sometimes lower so I don't mind cool. as long as the chill is gone I am totally ok.

its 54 miles. 19057 intersection of rt13 and edgely road to 08215 egg harbor city (right on rt30 just before rt50)

over the burlington bristol bridge down jacksonville road to rt206 to rt30

max speed 50mph the entire way. (posted limit) average speed 35mph IIRC) stop and go in the beginning rt13 to the BBB to rt130 once on jackson ville typically 4 or 5 lights the rest of the entire trip to destination so a pretty constant 50mph non stop once on jacksonville...

With these additional details, I think that there is a pretty good chance that you can make it for several years to come except when it is actively snowing. You will need to get comfortable with using the lower part of the battery pack; there is still plenty of useful charge below "Low Battery Warning". I get similar distances quite easily in winter at those temperatures since I don't need to use the cabin heat (dressing warmly, the norm in winter anyway, and the steering wheel heater are plenty for me most of the time). But some people are adamant that not using the cabin heater during the trip is not an option.

In my view, the things you have going for you are:

• The relatively slow speeds of your commute; there is a huge difference in range at your reported speeds versus blasting along at 65 mph, as so many people do.

• Your comfort at cooler temperatures (I keep my house thermostat at 62º mornings and evenings and 52º at night). If you can do this commute with preheating and skip the cabin heat, it will help the range. Be aware, however, that the 2012 has no heater-off switch. If you need to use the defroster the heater will come on and suck down power. [I don't think they still have it, but EVSEupgrade.com used to have a climate control mod that will allow you to turn the heater off and still be able to blow air on the windshield. It is a big help on my 2012. Another option is a DIY approach: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins.]

A possible problem would be if you park outside at home. If you have an enclosed, attached garage, it should help keep the car and battery warmer (a cold battery has reduced capacity/range). Charging the battery will help warm it up some. At work, the combination of driving to get there and charging while there will also help keep the battery warmed up some. If you park outside or your garage gets below freezing at night, that will reduce your range.

I expect that as the temperature declines you will get a feel for how your range also declines and can decide if you are pressing your luck. Be aware that wind, rain, and snow (of course), can reduce range significantly. If that happens, the way to make the trip is to slow down, since you don't have any enroute charging options.

Some things to consider: what if the workplace charging isn't working or is blocked? What if it starts snowing hard during the day? You aren't getting home in the LEAF!

 

[dgpcolorado]

Well I drove home tonight just shy of 54 miles. I started with roughly 95% charge? Said it needed 1 more hour for 100% said I could go 104 miles this rapidly dropped to 97.

I got home 42 miles left. Nice. Very nice. This was pretty ideal conditions. 71' light traffic no accessory usage except lights and stereo.

Very promising. That is a nice buffer. So the eventual 97m estimate was surprisingly accurate. At least for my commute in optimal conditions. The lost mile or so I guess was the headlights?

You need to learn to not rely on the "Guess-o-meter" (GOM). Given that you are going to be pushing the range on a regular basis you need a more precise fuel gauge, such as "LEAF Spy", mentioned by GRA above (if you use an Apple phone I believe that there is another app that will work with that). In addition to giving better fuel information it will also give battery temperature, which will be helpful for you to watch, since it affects battery capacity in the cold. For your purposes, the car fuel bars or GOM is not going to give you the confidence you need to stretch the range.

 

[nerys]

I have leaf spy. Not sure how to read it. It always shows 20 miles less range than I actually get or I am reading it wrong

Sadly bare cold outside parking only.

I have a backup vehicle at both locations so no worries there.