ICEless in Seattle : Official Pacific NorthWest thread

[DaveinOlyWA]

There are always compromises with change.

So we can continue to burn oil and compromise our homes or use batteries and compromise our range

 

[rainnw]

The concerns regarding the battery are quite valid. If (the key) if that lithium is exposed to any trauma, fire, oxygen, water, etc. you have a serious problem on your hands. But so does 13-15 gallons of gasoline.

Lithium fires also have special extinguishing requirements.

I just had a device failure recently where moisture entered an enclosed device, penetrated the purportedly sealed LiPo battery (the more chemically stable of the technology), caused a semi self-contained gas venting, but with enough heat to melt any plastic on the device. We've also had all sorts of comical manufacturing events...such as someone accidentally hitting the battery (instead of the contacts) with a soldering iron. That 100mA battery caused 6' geyser of fire. We outsource this now.

But i might add...this gas venting, water penetration, and heat generation were completely contrary to the datasheet!

Anyway, im not sure what would be worse, 10 gallons of gas or a 24kW battery pack + fire ... but i would imagine both would create a very impressive firework show.

 

[garygid]

The "dangerous" L-ion batteries you describe are different chemistries than the MUCH SAFER chemisry used in the LEAF's L-ion battery. Night and Day difference in Safety.

 

[evnow]

Lithium when combusted is an exothermic reaction, just like gas. Infact the energy density would be similar to gas - just that nobody is trying to burn lithium and harnest the energy.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

there is no way and i mean no way that anyone can beat me in the "what if" game. so i hope we can move on

 

[garygid]

What if nobody is even vaguely interested in playing your "game"?

 

[evnow]

Talking today with the Ecotality rep who came to checkout the Blink install, some info I gathered
- Between Mar & May there will be something like 1300 Blink installs. 50 per contractor per week.
- 24 L3 chargers will go online by Sept. They will have the chademo port as well as a port to be updated later. First public chargers are expected only by April.
- They were doing one more Blink install today, apart from mine

There were two installers + 2 others from the electric contractor (Prime Electric) who came to watch. The ecotality person came to check as well and remained there till the end. Thankfully no media.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

What if nobody is even vaguely interested in playing your "game"?

Gary; my comment was based on the "what if" scenario of an accident causing the batts to leak which could cause burns. i find the possibility of that happening to be so remote as to be laughable that that would be the primary concern in an accident with an obvious level of severalty.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

long story of my Evening drive to Everett and poking around to find the Coulomb charge points on the Eastside in my blog. I don't want to use up all that space in the regular thread or take things off topic. In short, got to charge on Trickle in Everett last night while attending a game.

Hope to see some more of you with LEAFs shortly.

 

[sproqitman]

long story of my Evening drive to Everett and poking around to find the Coulomb charge points on the Eastside in my blog. I don't want to use up all that space in the regular thread or take things off topic. In short, got to charge on Trickle in Everett last night while attending a game.

We're about 6 months early (but we knew that going in). We swapped cars with our daughter last week, when the wife and I drove down to Tacoma to see Garrison Keillor. Not enough time to put a full charge into the LEAF, plus being at the range limit made us chicken out and go gas. However, if Sound Transit had a charging station at the Tacoma Dome, we could have parked there and taken the (free) light rail downtown to see the show. Soon, soon.

 

[lc96]

Awaiting my ability to order, but in the meantime, you can borrow my Prius for your Leaf anytime!

Laurie

 

[patrick0101]

There is a renewable energy fair each July in John Day Oregon called the SolWest Fair. They have asked to have an many EVs as possible at the event. Most of you should have your LEAFs by then. If you are interested, here is the link:

http://columbiariverpress.com/JohnDay/

The trek of EVs there is called "John Day or Bust". Last year a friend of mine drove his converted Yaris EV (about 140 mile range). There will be coordinated charging locations along the way every 60-70 miles. They are going to attempt to stage the charging so as you pull up to a location, the person ahead of you should be topped off and ready to make the next leg. There are hotels and camping in John Day. From what I hear there are big after-hours parties, it is a good time.

You can read more about the fair here: http://www.thedirt.org/node/5339

If you want more details or to participate, contact Gary Munkhoff ([email protected]).

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
Wow, that would be 3 quick charges @ 1.5 hours or 24 hours of L2 charging to get a leaf there on it's own power from Portland.

 

[patrick0101]

Gary would have the details. But I highly doubt that there will be DC quick chargers available in that direction. North and South on I-5, sure. East-West, not as likely. There may be one DC quick charger on I-84 (maybe in Hood River), even that does not seem likely. Most likely it will be a guerrilla charging adventure. If the Zero race can make it around the World, I think it is possible to make it across the state.

Ray made it last year. You can read his adventure here: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=420537039141

 

[IBELEAF]

so guys.... I am wondering what range are you getting in this 30-40 degrees weather?

 

[sproqitman]

so guys.... I am wondering what range are you getting in this 30-40 degrees weather?

It's hard to tease these things out. I'd like to do some controlled experiments, but the weather keeps changing

Best guess is that the heater is burning through about 10 miles of range per hour. My wife averages 1.5 to 2 hours a day in the car, and there are approximately 15 to 20 miles of range loss unaccounted for by driving miles and elevation changes. That's in rough agreement with the energy display, which shows the heater drawing 2-2.5 kW once the cabin is up to temperature.

 

[evnow]

By preheating - I get around 4 mpkwh to work. This includes a 900 ft elevation drop while going to to work and gain when coming home. This would indicate a range of about 100 miles. This is all non-highway, with mostly 40 mph roads. The estimate range after charging confirms this - by showing about 80 miles after 80% charging.

So, I expect to get about 100 miles (or about 80 miles before battery low) if not using heating/free-ways.

When using heating & freeways - I've got about 70 miles of range (based on avg mpkwh). So, probably hitting battery low around 60 miles. This was in near freezing temperatures we had last weekend, when I picked up the car.

 

[easkag]

I live on the other size of the state (Richland). We've had colder temps and have the heater running almost constantly. Through February, our average energy efficiency was 4 mi/kwh (according to CARWINGS). Much of this is commuting (10 miles one way, about 1 mile at 70 mph downhill, 6 miles at 55 mph with stop lights, the rest on 35 mph streets). We've been charging to 80% and the car usually reports about 75-80 miles range in the morning. Pre-heating has been a big bonus for us - I can't imagine getting another car without it.

Greg

 

[evnow]

I live on the other size of the state (Richland). We've had colder temps and have the heater running almost constantly. Through February, our average energy efficiency was 4 mi/kwh (according to CARWINGS).

CARWINGS is not correct. Compare the efficiency shown by the car, carwings & the actaul energy used by the charger.

My numbers show the car & actaul energy used by the charger to agree - but carwings is optimistic. For eg. yesterday on my way to work, I got 7.1 mpkwh (downhill) - but carwings showed 10.5 mpkwh.

I'll be gather more information and lodging a bug with Nissan. If you see discrepancies pls report to Nissan - this way we can get Nissan to correct carwings.

 

[SeattleBlueLeaf]

Time for next meet up??

So we have some more cars on the road up (EVNow amongst them) here and many more coming. What about another meet up? I'd like to suggest meeting at the Redmond City Hall location. There are 2 Coulomb ChargePoint Network charges there so people like DaveInOly can charge while we meet. There is no coffee shop to hang out inside but the City Hall campus borders the Sammamish River Trail so it very park like with lots of space and parking available. I'd be happy to pick up enough coffee, cream & sugar, and cups to go around.. although the green thing to do would be to bring your own cup.

I'd propose a get together on April 2 or 3 as a good date. Hopefully a bit warmer out. Maybe a few more EVSE's installed.

Redmond City Hall
15670 Northeast 85th Street
Redmond, WA 98052