Is there something wrong with my Leaf.

[OlyLeaf]

Just bought a used 2011 Leaf with 29k on it. Battery indicator (narrow indicator to right of the fatter battery charge indicator) has all twelve bars. When charged to 80% mileage remaining reads 58. Driving in 50 degree weather with climate control mostly off and driving conservatively on a mix of highway, freeway, and just a bit of in town driving I managed 33 miles with a +8 mile charge in the middle. At the end of the day miles remaining indicated 24 miles with just one bar above the red zone. Without the +8 mile charge I would have had 25 real miles from 80% to near red zone. My previous car is a Jetta TDI that I enjoyed hypermiling in. I would expect this kind of thing if my battery capacity was diminished significantly but all twelve bars are lit up. So, what are possible issues that I can hopefully improve?

******UPDATES*******
3/5/2014
Charged to 100%. GoM read 83 miles. I drove 53.5 miles, two bars are left, GoM is at 9. Seems like I might have about a 60 mile car in this 50 degree wet weather that needs frequent defogging. I did take the car up to 70 for a few miles and watched the GoM take a dive. Otherwise, I did a lot of 35-50mph driving with infrequent stops. There were lots of puddles today though and very wet roads which I imagine shaved a few miles off the range. I'll take a look at the chart and see how my trip stacked up against the expectations of a full battery. I'm not terribly disappointed but a little worried about how the car might fare when it's actually cold outside and when I get my two kids in it which will add weight and increase needs for defogging.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

are you in Olympia WA? in any case, cold weather (below 40 degrees) really takes it's toll, though only temporarily till it warms up again. the 2011 has a very power hungry heater, so if you need the full range in winter you need to reduce/eliminate the use of heater/AC/defrost while driving by prewarming the car on shore power, and do so far enough in advance that it gets the car back to 100% before you leave (initially the power draw can exceed what the EVSE provides and can draw down the traction battery, then once the car warms up a bit and the draw lessons, the battery gets charged back up). Chances are, after 29K miles, even in a cool climate, you have some long term/permanent capacity loss, Nissan would say this is "normal", though few of us are at all happy about how rapid Nissan's definition of "gradual" turns out to be. the first bar only disappears once the loss drops below a certain threshold, so the fact that you can see it, doesn't mean there is not degradation.

hopefully you got a decent deal on the 2011 and it will still work for your needs. I wouldn't stress about it, just charge up extra while it's cold out and don't push the limits if you can avoid it.

Just bought a used 2011 Leaf with 29k on it. Battery indicator (narrow indicator to right of the fatter battery charge indicator) has all twelve bars. When charged to 80% mileage remaining reads 58. Driving in 50 degree weather with climate control mostly off and driving conservatively on a mix of highway, freeway, and just a bit of in town driving I managed 33 miles with a +8 mile charge in the middle. At the end of the day miles remaining indicated 24 miles with just one bar above the red zone. Without the +8 mile charge I would have had 25 real miles from 80% to near red zone. My previous car is a Jetta TDI that I enjoyed hypermiling in. I would expect this kind of thing if my battery capacity was diminished significantly but all twelve bars are lit up. So, what are possible issues that I can hopefully improve?

 

[camasleaf]

- charge to 100% a few times, without timer, let the car sit pluged in a few hours after completed chargin (balance the pack)
- have somebody with a LeafSpy or LeafDD devices check you capacity batery (dealer might have reset the capacity bars)
- check you tire pressure

 

[davewill]

There's nothing wrong with your car. Your experience is completely normal for a car of that age. Firstly, the "red zone" really only applies to the small capacity bars, not the larger charge state bars. You should plan on using the range all the way down to where you get the "very low battery warning" (second low battery warning). At that point you will have between 3-8 miles to get to a charging station. If you drive very slowly you might get 12 miles after VLBW. Secondly, the first capacity bar doesn't disappear until you're 15+% down, so your battery likely IS significantly diminished. Thirdly, the Distance to Empty readout (we call the Guess-o-meter or GOM) is notoriously fickle and shouldn't be used for much of anything. Instead use the wide bars in concert with Tony's range chart (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false to gauge how much range you have left. Keep track of the reported miles per kilowatt-hour you get in different driving situations to figure out which column you should be using. Finally, don't be afraid to charge to 100% if you need it. 80% mode hasn't been shown here to make any measurable difference in long-term battery health. Local climate is the main deciding factor.

 

[Reddy]

I fear we will be getting a lot of these types of questions. There will be a huge number of 2011 Leafs coming off of lease in the next 4-5 months. Given a 12,000 mi/yr lease, we should see lots of cars in the 30-40 kmiles range. All hot climate vehicles will have less than 12 bars, while some in the PNW will still have all the bars, but are likely very close to 11 bars (15% degradation). Sigh, each case will be different, except with similar complaints of inaccurate GOM and much less than 100 mile range (probably closer to 50 mi realistically). The only helpful thing I can add is new owners should test the car right down to LBW, VLBW, and even turtle (in controlled conditions near your home). That way you will feel more confident about running at the very low battery end (if you need it). Otherwise, just ignore the amount of battery required to do your daily trips. Use the car as much as you are able and be glad you didn't spent $35-40K on the car. The auction price of 2011 Leafs is appallingly low (around $12K) and will probably go even lower. I've enjoyed my 2.5 years of EV driving and only wish I could have bought a 3-yr old Leaf back in 2011.

 

[OlyLeaf]

Yes, I'm in Olympia, Wa. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will experiment and report back. I really appreciate the responsiveness of this group.

 

[cwerdna]

Yes, the GOM is crap and can't predict the future.

Many w/'11 and '12 Leafs drivers have been using gid meters in various forms and gid values as a proxy for % SoC, as 0 to 281 is a lot more granular than the the 12 fuel bars and poor GOM.

The cheapest solution if one has an Android phone is http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14284" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/a Bluetooth OBD 2 dongle. Otherwise, one can buy cheapo Android phones from prepaid carriers.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...- check you tire pressure

I'd like to second this suggestion. All new LEAF owners should be aware that the Nissan recommended tire pressure of 36 psi is too low for the combination of heavy car and low rolling resistance (LRR) tires with flexible sidewalls. Better to run at pressures of at least 40 psi; you will improve mileage a bit and the tires will wear more evenly according to many reports here. Get a good tire gauge and keep your tire pressure up.

 

[GIBBER]

Yes, the GOM is crap and can't predict the future.

Many w/'11 and '12 Leafs drivers have been using gid meters in various forms and gid values as a proxy for % SoC, as 0 to 281 is a lot more granular than the the 12 fuel bars and poor GOM.

The cheapest solution if one has an Android phone is http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14284" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/a Bluetooth OBD 2 dongle. Otherwise, one can buy cheapo Android phones from prepaid carriers.

Not to sidetrack this convo but the "GOM" takes a lot of heat on MNL and it is contrary to my experience. Nissan may have changed the operating system for MY 2013+ because I can tell you from new to now (8,000 miles) I can charge the car, reset my trip odometer and as long as my driving style remains consistent the actual miles traveled and the GOMs indicated miles are very close at LBW.

 

[gsleaf]

Are you using the defogger? If you are, but you don't need heat I think that manually lowing the temperature all the way to 60 then using the defogger will keep the heater from turning on. Can anyone confirm this is true? The heater in the 2011's and 12's use a lot of energy so finding a way to keep it off gives you a lot more range.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Are you using the defogger? If you are, but you don't need heat I think that manually lowing the temperature all the way to 60 then using the defogger will keep the heater from turning on. Can anyone confirm this is true? The heater in the 2011's and 12's use a lot of energy so finding a way to keep it off gives you a lot more range.

Definitely not. The problem with the 2011/2012 heater is that there is no way to turn it off and just blow air on the windshield (Nissan fixed this with a heater-off button on the 2013/2014 models). The solution for owners of older LEAFs is to get Phil's Climate Control Unit mod: Climate Control Solution - Gain Control of your Heater!

I've been using this for almost two years now and it works well. Being able to run the defroster periodically without heat is usually enough to keep the windshield defogged (unless it is frosted on the inside from very cold temperatures outside). Even if it isn't, running the heater for a few minutes and then turning it off and using the residual heat for awhile will work with less overall heater use IME. Phil's mod allows one to do this.

 

[gsleaf]

]Definitely not. The problem with the 2011/2012 heater is that there is no way to turn it off and just blow air on the windshield (Nissan fixed this with a heater-off button on the 2013/2014 models).

Is it possible that it's warm enough in Portland, OR to where the heat doesn't kick on for me when I turn the temperature down to 60? When I do that with the defroster on it only blows cold air. When I turn it up to 70 the heat kicks on.

 

[DanBaldwin]

As long as the temperature is over 60 degrees inside the car, you can blow cold air on an unmodified '11 or '12 leaf. Sometimes I bring up the energy use screen, and modulate the set temperature to keep the energy usage at or below 1kw, and still keep the car fairly cozy.

 

[gsleaf]

As long as the temperature is over 60 degrees inside the car, you can blow cold air on an unmodified '11 or '12 leaf. Sometimes I bring up the energy use screen, and modulate the set temperature to keep the energy usage at or below 1kw, and still keep the car fairly cozy.

Okay, that's probably why I thought my trick was working. I rarely need to use the heat in Portland, but I do need to defog the windows a whole lot.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Okay, that's probably why I thought my trick was working. I rarely need to use the heat in Portland, but I do need to defog the windows a whole lot.

One advantage of preheating is that the inside of the car is warmed up and the heater bottle retains heat for a few minutes so that you can use up the remaining heat to defog the windshield for a time with out additional heat.

However, blowing unheated below zero air on the windshield can be a bit "brisk", although it works fine for defogging in my climate if the cabin is already warmed up a bit. [Since I have Phil's CC mod I can turn the heat off like the owners of 2013/2014 models can.] It is parking outside in well below freezing temperatures that is a nuisance since the fog becomes frost and blowing cold air on a frosted windshield doesn't work very well IME.

It sounds as if using cold air for defogging also works for you, assuming that the cabin is above 60ºF so the heater doesn't come on.

 

[cwerdna]

As long as the temperature is over 60 degrees inside the car, you can blow cold air on an unmodified '11 or '12 leaf. Sometimes I bring up the energy use screen, and modulate the set temperature to keep the energy usage at or below 1kw, and still keep the car fairly cozy.

I see. To be clear on the '11 and '12 flaw, am I correct in my statement?

If HVAC system is on (not off) and even when auto is off, the lowest temp you can set is 60 F and therefore, if it's below 60 F in the cabin, the dumb power hungry heater runs? Or, is this only if you also turn on auto? Or, does auto not matter?

I've never been sure since I never owned/leased an '11 or 12 Leaf nor rented one. The only time I've ever driven a Leaf for more than a few minutes at a time is the '13 I have now.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I see. To be clear on the '11 and '12 flaw, am I correct in my statement?

If HVAC system is on (not off) and even when auto is off, the lowest temp you can set is 60 F and therefore, if it's below 60 F in the cabin, the dumb power hungry heater runs? Or, is this only if you also turn on auto? Or, does auto not matter?...

The first statement is correct: CC on, heater runs if the cabin is below set temperature. I think it also runs if the defroster is used regardless of temp setting (not sure). There is a workaround where if you set it to foot + defrost it will use outside air without heat but that leads to cold feet. The real problem is that you don't necessarily know the heater is on unless you keep the energy screen up and keep an eye on it. Using "Eco" reduces the power use of the heater for cabin heat, but defrost is full power to the heater/AC regardless of D or Eco (presumably because defogging is a safety issue).

The reason your 2013 LEAF has a heater-off button, to go with the AC-off button, is because of complaints from the 2011 owners about the poor heater design. When Nissan chose not to make a fix for the older cars Phil started selling the CC unit mod he had developed (I am very glad to have it).