Is this normal?

[woodyas]

First off: have had the Leaf now for 6 days. Without question, I am loving this car! We have done--until today--mostly neighborhood drives. About 20 miles per day.

No issues.

Now for today: I charged to 80% last night...which equated to 10 bars(saying 83 miles or so on the guess-o-meter). Told my wife to drive to her appointment about 21 miles away...which would be about 42 miles round-trip. And I figure no problem. Piece of cake.

Breath easy. No range anxiety. All is good.

As if.

She drives ALL FREEWAY to the appointment(and yes--she probably was going around 70 or so)and calls me and says: I did great! The car was awesome--but scary how fast the miles go down on the dash. I then go to carwings and see it dropped 5 BARS(FROM THE THE 10 BARS)and now says 27 miles left. And no: she was in D the whole way. Did not show her the ECO mode yet. She has only driven once.

So: a 21 mile trip on Freeway in calm weather in Palm Springs--with climate on--took a whole 5 bars. Not sure how anyone could ever drive more then 22 or 23 miles(if they really use 5 bars out of 10 charged)and get back safely without charging on the way back.

Again: this is a car with only 80 miles and just bought Wednesday. So: is there something that may get better? I, of course, will test the same place she went over the weekend...but drive on surface streets and see how many bars that takes.

As this rate...it will be IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER EXCEED the lease of 12,000 per year. We won't be driving long distances.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. But I am assuming it will be: it just depends on how you drive. And how fast. But going through 5 bars from 10 bars in just 20 miles on freeway seems excessive...no matter what the speed.

 

[davewill]

A little hard to tell from this description. For starters you have to learn to simply ignore the Distance-to-Empty (aka Guess-o-meter, aka GOM). It simply is too erratic to be useful for anything except scaring people. When charging to 80%, that tenth bar doesn't usually last very long. If she just lost that 6th bar, then it sounds very plausible. Don't worry overmuch about "D" vs. "ECO", driving at a steady speed on the freeway there would be virtually no difference. Also, a lot of the LEAF's capacity is hidden after the last bar is gone. Finally, driving at 70 vs 65 makes a really big difference. Have her drive home at 65, and she should have no problem.

 

[Stoaty]

Impossible to say if it is normal because:

1) The bars are pretty coarse, and 10 bars is really only 9.5 on an 80% charge. 5 bars left could very well be 5.49 bars.

2) We don't know how fast your wife drove

3) If climate control was using the heater, that chews up electrons pretty fast. Depends on what temperature it was set for also.

 

[thankyouOB]

you cant really drive it like an ICE -- roaring along on the freeway and up to stop lights -- if you expect to use battery power and a LEAF in its current configuration.
there has to be a commitment to EV driving to make it work for distances over 50 miles.
YMMV

 

[smkettner]

Was the heat set for 72+? Was the cuise set a 70 or was this 70+ keeping up with the flow?
Seems a bit much but within the zone to me.
With cool weather and driving 70+ I suggest charging to 100%.

 

[woodyas]

Thanks to all.

So...am I to assume that starting with 10 bars and being at 5 bars(and no heat...it's 80 degrees out here. Air...yes)after 20 miles freeway is within range...but sure scares me about her doing the ride back without stopping off for a charge. If not...would that not take her down to O bars and much worry.

But ok...just need to drive more and get the feel. Just not sure how anyone can drive at freeway speeds(65)and go more then 55 miles without it hitting 1 bar.

 

[DaveEV]

Sounds normal for 20+ freeway miles on a 80% charge.

Check the range chart - it will really help you plan your trips: Range Chart

My commute is 23-25 miles and I always get home with 5-6 bars remaining, though the GOM usually reads 30-40 miles (surface street commute, 35-55 mph, 3.8-4.8 mi/kWh depending on how efficiently I drive).

At 70 mph I can't imagine getting better than 3.8 mi/kWh unless going down-hill.

On a 80% charge, I expect to get to LBW after driving about 45-55 miles depending on how efficiently I drive. A 100% charge will get that up to 60-70 miles.

Best bet - slow down to the speed limit, relax and drive in ECO mode which will limit HVAC draw so that HVAC won't use more than about 10% of your range unless you need to run the defroster - in which case it's best to toggle the defroster on/off as needed. Better to start slow and conserve your range, then if you know you've got plenty to spare, drive as you see fit!

But ok...just need to drive more and get the feel. Just not sure how anyone can drive at freeway speeds(65)and go more then 55 miles without it hitting 1 bar.

You can pretty much guarantee that you'll be down to 1 bar after 55 miles at 65 mph on the freeway on a 80% charge.

The bigger concern is how well the batteries in the car handle the heat in the summer. You live in one of the hottest areas of the USA which accelerates battery capacity degradation, it's a good thing you leased! Early Capacity Losses-Was(Lost a bar...down to 11)

Definitely take it down to LBW (first low-battery warning) and then the 2nd VLBW (very-low-battery warning) at a minimum. When you get to LBW you will typically have about 12 miles range remaining, and when you get to VLBW you will have about 4-5 miles range remaining. Once very close to empty, you will enter turtle mode at which point you will not be able to drive very far at all - typically no more than a mile. Obviously, the slower you can drive, the farther you can push the range.

BTW - quite a few people are putting more than 20k miles/year on their LEAF. There's one owner in Washington who's probably closer to 35k miles/year driving about 120 miles/day on two 100% charges.

 

[davewill]

... But ok...just need to drive more and get the feel. Just not sure how anyone can drive at freeway speeds(65)and go more then 55 miles without it hitting 1 bar.

You will hit one bar. What you have to realize is at 65, you probably have another 13 miles* or so when you hit that last bar. Plus, for most people, the end of their route is city streets which will stretch the range even further.

*The range chart is your friend: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; BTW, when using the range chart, start out using speed to pick your column, but it's more helpful to reset the mpk readout for each trip and learn what kind of efficiency you actually get when you drive. That will better help you pick a column to use. For instance, I drive mostly on the freeway at 65, which on the chart shows as 3.6mpk, but when you take my driving as a whole, I get 3.9-4.0mpk very reliably, so I usually use the 3.9mpk column. You can also use the mpk readout when executing a long trip. As a example, if you've used the chart to determine that 4.2mpk will get you there and back, then just slow down until you can keep the readout at or above 4.2. You may have to go slow, but you'll be sure to get there.

 

[thankyouOB]

Thanks to all.

So...am I to assume that starting with 10 bars and being at 5 bars(and no heat...it's 80 degrees out here. Air...yes)after 20 miles freeway is within range...but sure scares me about her doing the ride back without stopping off for a charge. If not...would that not take her down to O bars and much worry.

But ok...just need to drive more and get the feel. Just not sure how anyone can drive at freeway speeds(65)and go more then 55 miles without it hitting 1 bar.

you cant go 65 and expect whopping-good range. you have to make that an absolute maximum, in my view, except for strategic passing and other must-do speeding.

 

[Stanton]

But ok...just need to drive more and get the feel. Just not sure how anyone can drive at freeway speeds(65)and go more then 55 miles without it hitting 1 bar.

So you've taken the first step towards nirvana: there are "conditions" for driving an EV.
Keep it under 60 on the highway, watch the acceleration, and remember the car "sandbags" you at the bottom end of the battery gauge (at least the Leaf does).
In time, you'll learn about using the heater in the winter and (not) charging in the heat of summer. It's all worth it!

 

[gbarry42]

The disclosures that the dealer is required to present during the sale should include the first message of this thread, or a montage of the dozens of similar messages that have been posted here since the LEAF's introduction.

I have the occasional 51-mile day, and from an 80% charge, I roll into the garage with one bar and a single flashing digit on the GOM.

 

[smkettner]

My perception is the middle bars tend to drop out faster. So the last 5 you should get more miles than 10 to 6. And there is probably 1 or 1.5 hidden bars so don't completely panic as it drops to zero.

 

[planet4ever]

First, if there are five bars showing, the battery is still about 45% to 50% full. Since it started at (around) 80% full, she only used 30% to 35% or so of the capacity. Getting home will be no problem at all.

Second, if she continues to drive fast it may very well drop to one bar on the way home. Tell her that one bar is nothing to worry about. Even zero bars is nothing to worry about. Some time after dropping to one bar a lady's voice will tell her sweetly that the battery is low. That is still nothing to worry about, but it is something to think about. If she is only a few miles from home (as I expect she will be), tell her to giggle and say right back, "No problem!"

If she took a crazy notion to see if the car really can go 95, she will be farther from home, but she can still make it. I got that warning (which we call LBW) 18 miles from home once, and made it with no problem. A number of times I've gone 10 miles or more after that. The key is to slow down. For that 18 mile trip I was stuck on the freeway for the first 5 miles, and slowed immediately to 55, but after that I switched to a back road and drove 40 the rest of the way. 18 miles at, say, 45 mph average meant about 25 minutes to get home. If I had had lots of "juice" and driven 65 all the way I would have gotten home about 10 minutes earlier. Your wife will lose a lot more time than that if she has to call a tow truck. Just slow down, turn on cruise control, and enjoy the scenery.

Some time after the last bar disappears the lady's voice comes on again and says, still very sweetly, "Your battery is very low. Look for charging station?" We call this VLBW, and now it is time start worrying. The distance from VLBW to Turtle is about half that from LBW to VLBW unless you slow down even more. You do not want the turtle to appear, but if it does, get off the road and call for help.

By the way, the GuessOMeter is good for at least one thing when the battery is low. At LBW it starts flashing (and will be probably be down to single digits). At VLBW it gives up altogether and just shows three bars. So if you are listening to music and miss the lady's sweet voice, a glance at the dash will always tell you where you are in the normal-LBW-VLBW sequence.

Ray

 

[woodyas]

Well...it went like this:

Wife: "Why the hell did you get this car! Why not a Prius or Volt? You and your pure and pristine going green mentality!"

Me: "Hey, I thought you did not want to even drive it? And hey: I hate Chevy and the Prius is not the same. I wanted 100% electric."

Her: "Well...I am down to 1 bar, freaking out, and you are going to pay for this. And I will never drive this damn car again! And do not try and sweet talk me or give me some mendacity about the purity of all electric. I want a car for one simple and salient reason: to drive it! Not be worried about fluctuating bars and mileage anxiety."

Me: "So...I guess that means I'm sleeping on the couch tonight?"

All of this said: I still love me Leaf. And now my wife is terrified of it--and I do not have to worry about her bringing down my scores. I was at 4.4 and she drives today and gets a 2.4!

Ahh yes: the joys of marriage.

 

[pchilds]

I was at 4.4 and she drives today and gets a 2.4!

I didn't even get 2.4 when I went to the mountains to play with my Z-car friends last weekend. LEAF in the lead, the first time I got the brakes hot.

 

[garygid]

Sounds like she is a candidate for a Prius?

 

[Nubo]

...I charged to 80% last night...which equated to 10 bars(saying 83 miles or so on the guess-o-meter). Told my wife to drive to her appointment about 21 miles away...which would be about 42 miles round-trip. And I figure no problem. Piece of cake.

Breath easy. No range anxiety. All is good.

As if.

She drives ALL FREEWAY to the appointment(and yes--she probably was going around 70 or so)and calls me and says: I did great! The car was awesome--but scary how fast the miles go down on the dash. I then go to carwings and see it dropped 5 BARS(FROM THE THE 10 BARS)and now says 27 miles left.
.
.
.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. But I am assuming it will be: it just depends on how you drive. And how fast. But going through 5 bars from 10 bars in just 20 miles on freeway seems excessive...no matter what the speed.

First, not all "bars" are created equal. See the attached (derived from Tony Williams' chart). 5 bars remaining can be over "1/2 tank" so considering that she started with 80%, the return trip was never a problem. Even 4 bars is nearly "1/2 full"

Second, when charging to 80%, the 10th bar is not a "full" bar. So you really have 9 bars plus.

The chart also easily illustrates the beneficial effect of slowing down, even by 5mph. One really does have considerable control assuming one is not allergic to driving at legal speeds or even (gasp) slightly below the maximum speed limit.

Third, if you have any doubt at all about a trip, at least initially, I'd recommend charging to 100%. You'll become more familiar with the boundaries fairly quickly and familiar routes will become old hat.

 

[garygid]

Yes, normal for a "lead-foot" driver.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Her: "Well...I am down to 1 bar, freaking out, and you are going to pay for this. And I will never drive this damn car again! .... I was at 4.4 and she drives today and gets a 2.4!

Plenty of great advice above. If you have iPad or iPhone, you can get the "LEAF Energy" app and do "what-ifs" to learn how the car reacts. There's an app for Android, too. Both are based on my Range Chart.

My wife was similar.... she hated the LEAF for the same reasons. She just wanted to drive it like any other car, and unfortunately, LEAF isn't quite there yet.

I do better than 2.4 miles/kWh in my 4100 pound Rav4 !!! And my wife loves the Rav4 as much as she hated the LEAF, and actually volunteers to drive it long distances (90 miles one way to Riverside, charge up, and return home four hours later).

I think she might like it more than the physically larger Tesla Model S.

I hope so :twisted: