Juicing Up Your New Electric Car : 150 miles @ 90mph ?

[mwalsh]

You know how we've been discussing how just maybe the order process has been halted to work on increasing range? Well a statement in this review popped out at me"

The Leaf supposedly has a range of 150 miles at 90 miles per hour.....

Now, it would be easy to say "Stupid journalist got it wrong" but later in the story he says:

Still, the prospect of dead batteries remains unsettling. But, according to Nissan’s Nichols, "They’re working on technology now to extend that range. One hundred fifty miles is very sufficient for most people’s daily drive as far as to and from work."

Now the Nissan source appears to be a Dealer, so I don't know how much credence we can give any of the technical information given. But it's worth noting and then looking to other sources to confirm or refute.

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local/story/Juicing-Up-Your-New-Electric-Car/uxu7yilFCUqLgr8u2VbYWw.cspx

 

[indyflick]

I think he conflated two data points. Data point one, the LEAF has a top speed of 90 mph (it's really 98 mph). And second, the maximum range they may have ever attained might well have been 150 miles. But the two data points don't belong together. At 90 mph your range would only be about 30 miles.

 

[EVDRIVER]

As usual a bunch of messed up information, the only thing to give that much more range would be a new pack technology, a very big leap not something to do with the car. This is completely false as the present leaf would need about a 70 kwh pack to do that. Let's not entertain this please.

 

[smkettner]

Just a perfect example of how so many people do not understand how the world actually works.
I have also heard that by driving faster and getting home sooner it uses less gas because the time is less :roll:

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just a perfect example of how so many people do not understand how the world actually works.
I have also heard that by driving faster and getting home sooner it uses less gas because the time is less :roll:

And the wind drag changes via the headlights over 85 MPH to help reduce drag. Common sense everyone, common sense.

 

[ruimegas]

I think he conflated two data points. Data point one, the LEAF has a top speed of 90 mph (it's really 98 mph). And second, the maximum range they may have ever attained might well have been 150 miles. But the two data points don't belong together. At 90 mph your range would only be about 30 miles.

Would be a great step forward and would increase LEAF sells to the roof if NISSAN could surprise us with some kind of improved battery pack deliveries for the first cars to be selled since they already said that they are already working well to produce the 200 miles by no later than 2014/15.

If someone attained 150 miles it's great news too. Until now the maximum range reported was 138 miles. Can NISSAN at least validate this 150 miles and in what conditions we can achieve it?

PS: sorry for my lousy english, I'm not a native speaker

Waiting for my LEAF between February and April 2011 here in Portugal. First countrie in Europe to have them.

 

[Xenalmorph]

Batteries and range will improve much like data storage and batteries have improved for tech devices. The great thing is that batteries will all be plug-n-play for first generation EV's. Future packs for the Leaf will be smaller, lighter and give better range. It is a certainty... but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[DeaneG]

The journalist certainly got it wrong.

Significant battery technology improvements in shippable products usually visible only over many years, not months. The Leaf is what it is.

 

[evnow]

Still, the prospect of dead batteries remains unsettling. But, according to Nissan’s Nichols, "They’re working on technology now to extend that range. One hundred fifty miles is very sufficient for most people’s daily drive as far as to and from work."

Ofcourse they are working on it. We all now about the Gen 2 NMC batteries.

 

[indyflick]

The journalist certainly got it wrong.

Significant battery technology improvements in shippable products usually visible only over many years, not months. The Leaf is what it is.

Right, but I think the speculation here is the LEAF may have slightly better specs (performance and range) than what is being touted. We are all looking for a bit of an upside surprise. If it's true, then my guess is they've gained these improvements through better software over time. Having said that, 150 miles at 90 mph is simply not possible.

 

[mwalsh]

Having said that, 150 miles at 90 mph is simply not possible.

Yeah, I know. I was more focused on the increased range aspect of the story.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The journalist certainly got it wrong.

Significant battery technology improvements in shippable products usually visible only over many years, not months. The Leaf is what it is.

Right, but I think the speculation here is the LEAF may have slightly better specs (performance and range) than what is being touted. We are all looking for a bit of an upside surprise. If it's true, then my guess is they've gained these improvements through better software over time. Having said that, 150 miles at 90 mph is simply not possible.

A software tweak at this point will not make any change on range unless it was messed up. The motor and inverter have fixed efficiencies and nothing is going to make a big change on that in software unless it was bad to start. There is not tweak here and eco only boosts range by 10% and no software tweak will even be a fraction of that. Inflating the tires more will do more good. This entire thread is a bit silly, weight, aero, and more density will increase range.

 

[LEAFfan]

I don't believe he got it wrong. What I think may have happened is that he was talking about the cars being made in TN, not Japan. He mentions that right at the beginning. I'll bet the cars made in TN will have increased range, and they will get 150 mi. at 90 mph. He probably saw that stat about the cars that will be manufactured in TN, even if it isn't the first ones off the line.

 

[evnow]

I'll bet the cars made in TN will have increased range, and they will get 150 mi. at 90 mph.

No they won't. @90mph you will be 1/3rd the range compared to LA4. So, to get 150 miles @ 90 mph, you need batteries that give you 450 miles of range - or double of what roadster has. That won't happen in 2 years time when TN plant starts making Leafs - may be in 10 to 15 years, when Lithium Air batteries become commercial.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I don't believe he got it wrong. What I think may have happened is that he was talking about the cars being made in TN, not Japan. He mentions that right at the beginning. I'll bet the cars made in TN will have increased range, and they will get 150 mi. at 90 mph. He probably saw that stat about the cars that will be manufactured in TN, even if it isn't the first ones off the line.

LOL- do you have any idea how much power is pulled from the pack at 90 MPH? You would be very lucky to get 50 miles at that speed. You are talking a 3X increase in range. In a year I doubt the same pack size yields more than a 20-30% increase in range.

 

[EVDRIVER]

These threads on bad quotes should not be started. Again- COMMON SENSE.

 

[smkettner]

I think he has the TN thing wrong for now also.

 

[indyflick]

The journalist certainly got it wrong.

Significant battery technology improvements in shippable products usually visible only over many years, not months. The Leaf is what it is.

Right, but I think the speculation here is the LEAF may have slightly better specs (performance and range) than what is being touted. We are all looking for a bit of an upside surprise. If it's true, then my guess is they've gained these improvements through better software over time. Having said that, 150 miles at 90 mph is simply not possible.

A software tweak at this point will not make any change on range unless it was messed up. The motor and inverter have fixed efficiencies and nothing is going to make a big change on that in software unless it was bad to start. There is not tweak here and eco only boosts range by 10% and no software tweak will even be a fraction of that. Inflating the tires more will do more good. This entire thread is a bit silly, weight, aero, and more density will increase range.

There's been speculation the pack is actually a bit bigger than 24kWh, but they are only exposing 24kWh through software. The strategy being you can expose more of the pack over time to keep the range consistent. However, if empirical testing is indicating the degradation is less than anticipated, you could tweak the software to expose more of the pack from the get go. Of course all of this is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma. Hell we can't even get data on the accessories or the 0-60. So speculation on range increases is merely cocktail chat.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The journalist certainly got it wrong.

Significant battery technology improvements in shippable products usually visible only over many years, not months. The Leaf is what it is.

Right, but I think the speculation here is the LEAF may have slightly better specs (performance and range) than what is being touted. We are all looking for a bit of an upside surprise. If it's true, then my guess is they've gained these improvements through better software over time. Having said that, 150 miles at 90 mph is simply not possible.

A software tweak at this point will not make any change on range unless it was messed up. The motor and inverter have fixed efficiencies and nothing is going to make a big change on that in software unless it was bad to start. There is not tweak here and eco only boosts range by 10% and no software tweak will even be a fraction of that. Inflating the tires more will do more good. This entire thread is a bit silly, weight, aero, and more density will increase range.

There's been speculation the pack is actually a bit bigger than 24kWh, but they are only exposing 24kWh through software. The strategy being you can expose more of the pack over time to keep the range consistent. However, if empirical testing is indicating the degradation is less than anticipated, you could tweak the software to expose more of the pack from the get go. Of course all of this is a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma. Hell we can't even get data on the accessories or the 0-60. So speculation on range increases is merely cocktail chat.[/quote]


There are many contradictions there. They show a loss of range over a few years, if this also includes using the reserve in the pack then this is concerning. Even with an extra 4 kwh it's not going to give a huge boost to the numbers, the math does not lie. If there is a reserve it is likely no more than 4 kwh. I expect the Leaf to have the range numbers discussed from day one with about 70 miles at 65-70 MPH real world and much better in the city depending on accessory use, perhaps up to 130 for some snail drivers but I expect it to degrade fast based on all their warnings. Don't expect some surprise range increase or better 0-60 on a 3600 pound vehicle and those in areas like SF that drive the hills will see in real time how many kw a car like that will pull going up a hills vs flat grounds, a factor of 5-10X. As much as people think the laws of physics change they don't. And not a single person with a new Leaf will be doing even 75 miles in a Leaf at 90 MPH.
I expect poor 0-60 numbers and first-time EV drivers always thing the car is faster than it actually is due to the early torque, this is very common but the power drops very fast.

 

[evnow]

Those who are wishing / hoping for something better in a short amount of time should take another look at what is really possible and what are they looking for in an EV to avoid disappointments.