July Plugin Sales : Leaf 395, Volt 1849, PIP 688, FFE 38

[redLEAF]

We have Volt sales for September.

They sold 723. They built 2367.

Yikes! :shock:

I wonder where the 1,644 'built' and unsold Volts in September went ... in the pipeline, dealer demo's, etc. ?

I would think that if you were in the roll out sales area for these you would have your choice of color and options much more so than a LEAF -- I'm sure others will quiz GM on this

 

[TomT]

Not necessarily. There can be a significant lag between the time a vehicle is built and when it actually makes it to a dealership and is then sold, as we know only too well with the Leaf...

We have Volt sales for September.

They sold 723. They built 2367.

Yikes! :shock:

 

[palmermd]

Well every dealer around here seems to have at least 2 on the lot not including the demo car. I went by a dealer in Elk Grove and it has 6 on the lot a few weeks ago.

 

[TRONZ]

Well every dealer around here seems to have at least 2 on the lot not including the demo car. I went by a dealer in Elk Grove and it has 6 on the lot a few weeks ago.

Maybe GM won't have to build Volts for a couple months... ?

 

[evnow]

In Chevy website - I see 4 pages of Volts in Seattle Metro area. Funny thing is upscale areas have just one or two - and Renton has rest of them. Allocation based on general Chevy sales is not a good idea. I think Volt has a serious demand/supply mismatch in terms of dealerships (and possibly states too).

 

[muus]

I know Canadian sales are insignificant compared to the US or even Europe, but it isn't because of a lack of demand. Nissan only made 40 2011 models available to the public and they were all reserved in a mater of hours. It probably would have been quicker if it wasn't for their site being overloaded. My sister tried repeatedly to get onto the Nissan site but it wouldn't let her in. Nissan has already said they will only send 600 2012 Leafs to Canada and still hasn't told us what will be the MSRP.

July: 16 (fleet) http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2011/03/c9235.html
August: 9 (fleet) http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2011/01/c8000.html
September: 17 (mostly fleet) http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2011/03/c8855.html

For a total year to date: 42

 

[tps]

If the Volt production line is upgraded, as was the plan, I think the Volt will soundly out-produce the LEAF, until Nissan gets Smyrna up to speed. It doesn't seem as if they've gotten LEAF production at Oppama anywhere near to the originally projected 4K / month capacity. As I understand it, Chevrolet will be cranking out 5K Volts / month from their upgraded line. I just hope they can sell 5K Volts / month. If so, the totals should tilt in the Volt's favor until Smyrna comes online. Although I'll be buying a LEAF, I do want to see both cars succeed in the market. If either fails, it will be a setback for both.

 

[evnow]

For a total year to date: 42

Thanks - I'll figure out how to represent this & the EU total someone posted.

 

[TRONZ]

If either fails, it will be a setback for both.

I'm not so sure. The public is becoming aware that the LEAF and Volt are different. This is being reflected in the different monthly sales. IMHO the failure of either would be a temporary setback for that type of car. EX: If the LEAF failed it would be a set back to BEV's. If the Volt failed it would be a set back to PHEV's.

What will be most interesting is when multiple cars begin to compete amongst their type. Volt vs PI Prius. LEAF vs iMiev vs Fit EV vs i3. Or the coming country club battle of Tesla S vs Fisker Karma vs i8.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the Leaf wont fail. for selected people in the NE and Midwest, it may seem very unfair but Nissan did it right by concentrating early distribution in the most pro EV states.

i already see interest in the technology growing in my area even amongst people who probably be years before they could see themselves in an EV. but the seed has been planted and they will soon inundated with Leafs just as the Prius was and like the Prius, industry will be the prime movers.

Olympia has already slated several large fleet purchases of the Leaf for the State and they will provide the support system which will bring the technology to the mainstream in a big way. there is nothing like promoting technology than having 2 dozen Leafs lined up in a single parking lot.

i have a picture (somewhere) of the Dept of Ecology parking structure. there was one entire floor of the parking area that had about 95% Priuses a handful of Escape Hybrids and maybe 1 or 2 ICE out of about 100 vehicles. it was kinda awe-inspiring and the Leaf will be that way too.

it will take time and we will not really see an impact until the TN plant is in full swing so it will be another 18 months before it happens, but it will happen. there is no doubt. EVs are here to stay this time and they will have their revenge

 

[navidad]

Mistake in the table about JP number for Aug

 

[SanDust]

I predicted Volt sales would beat Leaf sales in September. Oh well. Seemed like a slam dunk to me but I missed the number of Volts headed to dealers. Of the Volts made "almost 2000" went to dealers as demos. That includes dealers which had 2011 MY demos. Those now become used. Just didn't anticipate the number would be so large.

Your pick of headlines: "Leaf beats Volt again" or "Volt sales surge as Leaf struggles". Both are based on fact and both are ridiculous. It's all about supply not about demand. Since Volts stay on the dealer's lot for an average of three days, and since the pipeline is mostly full and 150 cars are being added each work day, October deliveries should be between 1800-2000. At the same time deliveries of Leafs seem to be headed downward, perhaps because Nissan is now shipping to the EU. If the trend continues by the end of the year GM will have delivered 10K Volts and Nissan will have delivered 10K Leafs.

For entertainment purposes go back and look at this post, which is eerily similar to some here, discussing how Leaf sales had stalled, proof that no one wanted the car. (Though in truth people were screaming that they weren't getting their cars which were stuck at the Port). http://dailybayonet.com/?p=8147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; The fact is that the Leaf wasn't failing then, the Volt isn't failing now, and the Leaf won't be failing if the Volt outsells it 2:1 for the remainder of the year. Both GM and Nissan are going to have to learn how to sell these vehicles to a mainstream audience but at this point both companies are selling every one they make and demand is not an issue in any way shape or form. It's like the GT-R. How many of these did Nissan sell last month? 107. Wow, must be a complete failure. Well try and find one to buy.

The most interesting numbers didn't have much to do with how many were made or delivered but of average household income and prior car. The average family income in the US is roughly $50K. The average family income of a Prius buyer is $100k. The average family income of a Leaf buyer is $125K, a very large percentage of them were former Prius owners, and very few of them previously owned a Nissan. The average family income of a Volt buyer is $175K, the most traded in car is a Prius, and before buying a Volt the vast majority had never set foot in a Chevy showroom.

 

[muus]

If the trend continues by the end of the year GM will have delivered 10K Volts and Nissan will have delivered 10K Leafs.

Um... Nissan has already sold over 13k Leafs and will certainly deliver more than 20k by the end of the year. I think you are talking about sales in the US only right? Remember, the Leaf is sold worldwide yet the Volt is currently only sold in the US. (although I did see a Volt in Ottawa, Canada)

Soon you will be able to walk into almost any GM dealership in the US and buy a Volt, whereas the Leaf can be purchased by reservation only, and not in all states. - Not a level playing field. As was stated above, we will only know how many Leafs the (US) market can bare once the plant in Smyrna starts pumping them out.

 

[redLEAF]

The most interesting numbers didn't have much to do with how many were made or delivered but of average household income and prior car. The average family income in the US is roughly $50K. The average family income of a Prius buyer is $100k. The average family income of a Leaf buyer is $125K, a very large percentage of them were former Prius owners, and very few of them previously owned a Nissan. The average family income of a Volt buyer is $175K, the most traded in car is a Prius, and before buying a Volt the vast majority had never set foot in a Chevy showroom.

Always interested in buyer profiles even though many are dependent on people filling out surveys that many do not want to disclose their incomes, where do your numbers come from? -- these below were from 2005 so need to be adjusted for inflation (source was Detroit Auto News, unfortunately archived on their server and no longer available) but these are simply across the board and not model specific; if your numbers above apply to 'most' buyers than taking the Fed Tax Rebate would typically not be a problem and again that only upper middle class people buy these things (obviously simply NOT true) --- more telling would be how many buyers are multiple car owners (probably the majority) and what car the LEAF or Volt replaces (primary or secondary transportation) -- I wonder what the Mitsu iMEV and Ford Focus EV buyer profile would be and again what vehicle gets traded in? -- lastly, I would think that the statistics related to how many 'days of supply' would be relevant to your opinion and whether Chevy dealers are indeed selling every Volt they can get their hands on -- if the number is 1 or less than I would agree, if it's something higher than that I wouldn't :

Domestic Car Buyer Profile 2005
Mean Age: 51
% with college degree: 45
Mean Income: $85,000

European Car Buyer Profile 2005
Mean Age: 48
% with college degree: 75
Mean Income: $158,000

Japanese Car Buyer Profile 2005
Mean Age: 49
% with college degree: 63
Mean Income: $97,000

Korean Car Buyer Profile2005
Mean Age: 49
% with college degree: 43
Mean Income: $63,000

 

[evnow]

Mistake in the table about JP number for Aug

Will correct it.

 

[TRONZ]

There seems to be a strong disagreement regarding the actual availability of the Volt. The numbers tanked a few months ago due to "factory retooling". Makes sense, I get it... but that was months ago. Today, it goes without saying that a manufacturer would rather sell a car than demo it. If they have to demo cars then the hope is it will attract buyers/sell more cars later. SO! If GM is demoing all these Volts then it is because they are trying to attract future sales on customers they don't have yet. As in, were all caught up and need new customers. This is OK and the natural progression of any new product. My question is: Has GM reached this point already?

Does anyone know of someone still waiting to get a Pre-Ordered 2012 Volt? Just deciding recently to get a 2012 Volt, and getting one is also helpful. It would show that 2012 supply has managed to get ahead of 2012 demand.

 

[DaveEV]

The most interesting numbers didn't have much to do with how many were made or delivered but of average household income and prior car. The average family income in the US is roughly $50K. The average family income of a Prius buyer is $100k. The average family income of a Leaf buyer is $125K, a very large percentage of them were former Prius owners, and very few of them previously owned a Nissan. The average family income of a Volt buyer is $175K, the most traded in car is a Prius, and before buying a Volt the vast majority had never set foot in a Chevy showroom.

Interesting - going by those numbers alone - there's a LOT more families making $125k than families making $175k - that alone would indicate that LEAF sales should outnumber Volt sales. Would be interesting to see median incomes as well.

 

[TomT]

Remember, "There are statistics and then there are damn statistics..."

I've never indicated my income on any form - and I am sure that there are many others that have not as well - so a lot of it is pure conjecture and speculation. Interesting and fun to play with, but likely not meaning much.

Interesting - going by those numbers alone - there's a LOT more families making $125k than families making $175k - that alone would indicate that LEAF sales should outnumber Volt sales. Would be interesting to see median incomes as well.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There seems to be a strong disagreement regarding the actual availability of the Volt. The numbers tanked a few months ago due to "factory retooling". Makes sense, I get it... but that was months ago. Today, it goes without saying that a manufacturer would rather sell a car than demo it. If they have to demo cars then the hope is it will attract buyers/sell more cars later. SO! If GM is demoing all these Volts then it is because they are trying to attract future sales on customers they don't have yet. As in, were all caught up and need new customers. This is OK and the natural progression of any new product. My question is: Has GM reached this point already?

that is one possibility. as for me, my theory is that dealers realized that the Volt was priced too high and to provide the vehicle to a greater market without admitting a mistake, they have demo'd the vehicle for a short period of time then was able to justify lowering the sticker price to move the product.

now just a theory, but it makes no less sense than nearly every other decision that GM has made concerning the Volt

 

[adric22]

that is one possibility. as for me, my theory is that dealers realized that the Volt was priced too high and to provide the vehicle to a greater market without admitting a mistake, they have demo'd the vehicle for a short period of time then was able to justify lowering the sticker price to move the product.

When you say "priced too high" are you talking about the MSRP or what the dealers were actually charging?

I think it will be good to see extra Volts sitting on lots. That means customers will have a choice of dealers to buy their Volt from and so it makes it easier to avoid having the dealer add some kind of markup to the MSRP.

Also keep in mind that the Volt is still only available in select markets, as far as I know. Same with the Leaf. So when people talk about sales flattening out for a product like this, they have to realize when the product becomes available world wide, there will be no shortage of buyers.