Just became a Leaf + Volt family

[shrink]

Does anyone know if the Volt's level-1 charger will work on the Leafs and vice-versa?

I'm thinking of mounting one of the level-1 chargers to the wall. But I'd prefer to keep the L1 in my Leaf for the odd emergency. (although this has never really happened, it gives me peace of mind that it is there) As the Volt will likely never have such an emergency I'd rather mount the Voltec unit on the wall. But can my Leaf charge from that unit?

Until I get my 2nd Blink, I mounted the upgraded LEAF EVSE on the wall and am using that to charge the Volt. The Voltec will charge the LEAF just fine and is currently in the LEAF in case of emergency.

 

[nater]

Just so you know, the Amp difference between L1 and L2 is only 4 Amps. If you have 100 Amp service at your home, then your current L1 + L2 is 12 +16 Amps = 28 Amps. With two L2s you go to 32 Amps, a difference of 4 amps.

I'll bet you a dollar your panel can handle it.

Nate

 

[RegGuheert]

Just so you know, the Amp difference between L1 and L2 is only 4 Amps. If you have 100 Amp service at your home, then your current L1 + L2 is 12 +16 Amps = 28 Amps. With two L2s you go to 32 Amps, a difference of 4 amps.

I'll bet you a dollar your panel can handle it.

Agreed the panel can handle the LEAF and the Volt.

But NEC panel loading calculations are more rigorous than that because they consider what are reasonable loads that could occur. In this case, the original EVSE likely is connected via a 40A breaker in order to support a continuous 32A load. While neither the LEAF nor the Volt will do that, perhaps adric22's next EV will. If they then add an additional similar EVSE, then they have the ability for a combined 64A load at 240VAC. The question is whether or not the panel will stay below NEC calculation limits given an additional 32A load.

In most cases, the NEC calculations are quite reasonable, even if they are sometimes incomprehensible.

 

[adric22]

But NEC panel loading calculations are more rigorous than that because they consider what are reasonable loads that could occur. In this case, the original EVSE likely is connected via a 40A breaker in order to support a continuous 32A load. While neither the LEAF nor the Volt will do that, perhaps adric22's next EV will. If they then add an additional similar EVSE, then they have the ability for a combined 64A load at 240VAC. The question is whether or not the panel will stay below NEC calculation limits given an additional 32A load.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. My EVSE is connected on a 40 amp breaker. I know, because I installed it myself. But yeah, I guess it will never actually pull that much with either one of these cars connected to it.

However, the other problem is that there is no more space in the breaker box for another breaker. Not only did I add an EVSE but I also added 3 rooms to my home a few months ago and we used up all of the extra panel space.

Interestingly enough, I did add an additional 20-amp wall outlet in the garage just in case we ever got another EV. I figured I could use it as a dedicated L1 charging plug. So I'll probably wind up doing that.

At the moment my wife is insisting that we do not need to mount another EVSE in the garage and that we can share the single L2. At the moment this would mean trying to remember to go out to the garage each evening and switch the plug from one car to another. I guess we'll see how that works. If it doesn't, then I guess we'll have to give up and mount the L1 somewhere. Since somebody confirmed that the voltec unit will charge either car then that is the one I'll hang on the wall.

 

[surfingslovak]

Since somebody confirmed that the voltec unit will charge either car then that is the one I'll hang on the wall.

Congrats on getting a Volt! I have both level 1 and level 2 Voltec stations, and they will work with the Leaf without any problem.

 

[davewill]

... Interestingly enough, I did add an additional 20-amp wall outlet in the garage just in case we ever got another EV. I figured I could use it as a dedicated L1 charging plug. So I'll probably wind up doing that. ...

You can convert that 120v outlet to 240v since it's dedicated: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707&p=73701&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on your other post about adapters (very helpful btw) it looks like you can convert a dedicated 120v outlet to a 240v by swapping wires to create 2 hot wires. Is that possible? I imagine there would be wiring changes at the service panel too.

Yes, you can do this. You need to purchase a new 2-pole breaker, a new L6-20 outlet, and some red electrical tape.

First, be absolutely sure that it is a dedicated circuit! Use extreme caution!

1. Cut power to the service panel feeding the circuit.
2. Shut off and remove the original single-pole breaker (15 or 20A).
3. Locate the white neutral wire and remove it from the Neutral Bus bar.
4. Use red tape to cover the white wire so that it's now clearly red.
5. Verify power off and Remove the old outlet.
6. Tape the white wire here as well.
7. Connect and install the new 240V outlet. (Black to X, Red to Y)
8. Install the new 2-pole 15 or 20A breaker.
9. Wire the black and (now) red wires to the 2 screws on the breaker.
10. Replace the panel cover, restore power, and then turn on the new breaker.

-Phil

_________________
http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You could then use an EVSEUpgrade or some other 16a L2 EVSE connected to that circuit.

 

[RegGuheert]

At the moment my wife is insisting that we do not need to mount another EVSE in the garage and that we can share the single L2. At the moment this would mean trying to remember to go out to the garage each evening and switch the plug from one car to another. I guess we'll see how that works. If it doesn't, then I guess we'll have to give up and mount the L1 somewhere. Since somebody confirmed that the voltec unit will charge either car then that is the one I'll hang on the wall.

Personally, I would not use the Voltec for an everyday charger. The Panasonic unit should also charge both cars, whether upgraded or not. I've just seen too much that tells me that the Voltec is of marginal durability (which is fine for something in the trunk for occasional usage). YMMV

One other note: The two main reasons I wanted to upgrade my Panasonic EVSE for 240V use were 1) I don't like that normal 120V plugs are not locking and 2) I did not have a dedicated 120V circuit, so I had to pull something anyway. Might as well pull for 240V. I know 2) does not apply, since you already pulled it, but please ensure you have installed a top-quality outlet and that the 120V plug cannot easily fall out.

I hope it all works out for you! Sounds like it will!

 

[Roadburner440]

Personally, I would not use the Voltec for an everyday charger. The Panasonic unit should also charge both cars, whether upgraded or not. I've just seen too much that tells me that the Voltec is of marginal durability (which is fine for something in the trunk for occasional usage).

All the chargers for either car work with each other... The Leaf's Panasonic charger now works with the Volt because GM reprogrammed the Volt's computer to loosen the charge parameters. As far as using the SPX charger everyday I will not advise against it. I used it everyday for a few months. However if you go to the SPX website you can get their 240V charger for $490. I have one of those permanently installed, and Phil's upgraded EVSE w/25ft extension cord for the Leaf. Happy motoring with both cars. Also be careful with the Volt. There are a lot of haters out there.

 

[adric22]

You can convert that 120v outlet to 240v since it's dedicated: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707&p=73701&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Actually, I can't. Going to a 240V would need an extra pole on the breaker, meaning the breaker would be twice as tall. However, the breaker box is full. No room for it.

 

[davewill]

Actually, I can't. Going to a 240V would need an extra pole on the breaker, meaning the breaker would be twice as tall. However, the breaker box is full. No room for it.

Can you swap a full height for a half-height?

 

[RegGuheert]

As far as using the SPX charger everyday I will not advise against it. I used it everyday for a few months.

If you did that for a few months, then you were using the version that was recalled to replace the 120V cord (since the recall was just announced in March). The point being that the exact unit you are expressing good experience with was recalled because it had an inferior plug attached. Many of those melted for other users. Granted, they have fixed that issue, but a Google search reveals several other problems with the Voltec units.

OTOH, the Panasonic unit in the LEAF has 12 AWG wire instead of 16 AWG used in the Voltec and it appears to be better designed and manufactured. I am unaware of a single problem with the Panasonic EVSE. A Google search also turned up nothing.

It's up to everyone to decide what is best for them, but EVSE's can and do burn houses down. Given the choice, I will always choose the better quality EVSE for use in my house.

 

[mitch672]

They make tandem breakers (2 single pole breakers in 1 space), you could, for example remove 2 15A or 20A single breakers, and replace them with 1 tandem breaker, now you have freed up 1 position in your panel. That along with the dedicated breaker for your existing dedicated 120 garage outlet can then get replaced with a 2-pole 15A or 20A breaker, and you could install an L6-20R and use Phil's upgraded Nissan unit

 

[adric22]

They make tandem breakers (2 single pole breakers in 1 space), you could, for example remove 2 15A or 20A single breakers, and replace them with 1 tandem breaker, now you have freed up 1 position in your panel.

Yeah - already did that. That is how I managed to squeeze in all the new breakers. There are none left to replace.

It isn't that big of a deal. Being I drive 10 miles per day on my Leaf, there is no reason why I can't charge with L1. In the rare event I need faster, I can always use the L2.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

They make tandem breakers (2 single pole breakers in 1 space), you could, for example remove 2 15A or 20A single breakers, and replace them with 1 tandem breaker, now you have freed up 1 position in your panel.

Yeah - already did that. That is how I managed to squeeze in all the new breakers. There are none left to replace.

It isn't that big of a deal. Being I drive 10 miles per day on my Leaf, there is no reason why I can't charge with L1. In the rare event I need faster, I can always use the L2.

I have wondered about the possibility of combining 15 amp lighting circuits to free up space in a service panel. If you have changed all the lights to CFL or LED it would seem to not be an issue. You'd need to verify that there really were only lights on the circuit. This is not something I am recommending mind you, just contemplating.

A two-cable home EVSE is the product of the future. If it's on a 50 amp circuit you could select how many amps each cable "advertises" to the car (16+16 or 32+10) or have some timing features, like one is energized when the other finishes... although you could accomplish most of that by programming the charge timers on the cars appropriately.

 

[scottf200]

It's up to everyone to decide what is best for them, but EVSE's can and do burn houses down. Given the choice, I will always choose the better quality EVSE for use in my house.

Wow. That was quite a guilt pushing and condescending remark ("Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority."). Most issues with the original Volt 120v L1 were really related to older homes, older plugs, loose connections (poked in back outlet vs using screws), etc. My neighbor has used his 120v for months and it barely gets warm. Same for many folks I read.

 

[RegGuheert]

Most issues with the original Volt 120v L1 were really related to older homes, older plugs, loose connections (poked in back outlet vs using screws), etc.

Herein lies the inherent risk of L1 charging. You can plug those things into ANY outlet. Having worked inside many outlets both in new and older homes, I will say that all of the things you mention are quite common. A level 1 EVSE will put more stress on the outlet and wiring than most other loads out there. While the current is only 12A, the LEAF can draw that current for about 20 hours at a time. Combine this with the short cord required for these units which will stress the connection unless the unit is properly supported. As we all know, these units do not lend themselves to being supported easily.

OP put in a new circuit for L1 charging, so he should be in better shape than most who are plugging into an outlet which is in an unknown condition. At least with L2, new wiring to new standards is typically needed to make the connection, even with the upgraded units.

My neighbor has used his 120v for months and it barely gets warm. Same for many folks I read.

I'm sorry but that does not make them safe. Safety is something that needs to be designed in and verified through testing.

For a another opinion on the Voltec units, here is Ingineer's view at EVSEUpgrade.com:

Can you upgrade my Fisker Karma, Chevy Volt, or BMW Active-E EVSE?
All of these units are manufactured by Lear and are intended for emergency use only.  Due to the lack of UL Listing and the use of very marginal 16AWG cable, we strongly recommend you avoid using these units if at all possible.  If usage must be attempted it is recommended to keep a vigilant watch while charging, and also fully uncoil the cord and allow plenty of airflow.  If you intend to charge from a poratble unit often, We recommend the purchase of one of our new upgraded Nissan units which is much more safer and more reliable.

 

[Pipcecil]

We use the leaf's Level 1 EVSE for the Volt with no problems. As for the "durability" of the Volt's level 1 I haven't seen any issues (wife uses it every day!), but i do believe the new Level 1 (with the thicker cord, etc.) solved the early durability issues the old volt level 1 had.

Switching Level 2's (without a dedicated level 1) became impractical for us since we drive too much (I usually pull 1800 miles per month she will do 2300 miles). Switching the plugs around would sometimes occur after our bedtime and we had to stay up late on mulitple occasions to switch, hence dragging out the Level 1 from the leaf. We are now also considering (despite the cost of adding subpanel - main panel is full) adding a Voltec level 2. We have gotten into a few instances were one car needed the Level 2 and the other barely finished the Level 1 before we woke up. I could see a potential problem in the future with it, so I am investigating my options (that and the Level 1 plug is NOT on a dedicated circut).

But with as little as you drive with the Leaf, I think a Level 2/Level 1 combo would work out just fine.

 

[SanDust]

It's up to everyone to decide what is best for them, but EVSE's can and do burn houses down. Given the choice, I will always choose the better quality EVSE for use in my house.

Can't argue with your logic with respect to which EVSE to use but exactly how many houses have been burned down by a EVSE?

 

[Harv]

Just added another green vehicle to my fleet!!!!!!!!!!
We just bought a red Volt last night. It would be primarily driven by my wife. But I would be taking it to Bay Area for my monthly meetings. I am glad I won't have to drive my SUV to Bay Area anymore.
I would add some picture at a later stage.

 

[Herm]

Many 120V receptacles are in sorry shape.. EVSE manufacturers should include temperature sensors in their 120V plugs, cant be that expensive... similar to the plugs they use for blow dryers with a built-in GFI.