Just the way I see it, or anyone agree?

[bernie82]

Regardless of the color of the bars, the only thing that matters is actual driving range. If you can get about 80 miles of range on the freeway at 60 miles an hour you have full battery capacity.

 

[Caracalover]

When Tesla offered the Roadster up for sale, they offered a replacement battery for a set amount of money. Buy it when you buy the car, bring the car in when you want it swapped out, and they (I believe) recycle it for you.

Why can't Nissan do this? At the test drive I went to (First one in Santa Monica) they planned on that kind of thing - lease the battery, buy the car. Make a deal with solar and wind farms to utilize the used batteries.

Seems like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[adric22]

Why can't Nissan do this? At the test drive I went to (First one in Santa Monica) they planned on that kind of thing - lease the battery, buy the car.

Turns out there are laws against this in the USA.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Why can't Nissan do this? At the test drive I went to (First one in Santa Monica) they planned on that kind of thing - lease the battery, buy the car.

Turns out there are laws against this in the USA.

there are also still laws on the books concerning leaving horses unattended in town for more than a certain length of time.

not saying that laws are more of a hindrance than a help most of the time but...

 

[Caracalover]

Why can't Nissan do this? At the test drive I went to (First one in Santa Monica) they planned on that kind of thing - lease the battery, buy the car.

Turns out there are laws against this in the USA.

Then the laws need to be changed, or another company needs to be made to handle this situation. I would like to see what the law says, and why it was put in place. My first thought is the oil companies had something to do with it...

 

[cwerdna]

The PiP w/its smaller battery capacity means very few are going to spring for or feel the need to pay for an EVSE to installed at home since it's doesn't take long to charge at 120 volts vs. the Volt, where people might be more compelled to.

THere really isn't that much advantage on the Volt either. After all, an overnight charge on 120V will always fill up the battery. And it isn't like you have to worry about being able to recharge during the day or be stranded somewhere.

The PiP simply doesn't compete in my opinion simply because it costs nearly the same as a Volt. Had the PiP come out and been $3,000 more expensive than a similarly equipped non-plug in prius as Toyota originally said, I think it would be a big hit.

Hmm, I just ran the numbers, and I guess you're right on the cost, at least on base versions of both. In a slightly non-apples to apples comparison, going by MSRP, a base PiP (which comes with nav) vs. a non-nav equipped '13 Volt ends up being only ~$2200 less because the Federal tax credit is only $2500 on a PiP vs. $7500 for a Volt. Unfortunately, the tax credit doesn't help people who don't have enough tax liability...

For CA folks, the CVRP amount is the same for both at $1500.

However, once you start trying to equalize equipment (by adding the backup camera, heated seats and nav to the Volt), the price delta becomes $4400. Those 3 things are standard on the base PiP.

 

[planet4ever]

In a slightly non-apples to apples comparison, going by MSRP, a base PiP (which comes with nav) vs. a non-nav equipped '13 Volt ends up being only ~$2200 less because the Federal tax credit is only $2500 on a PiP vs. $7500 for a Volt. Unfortunately, the tax credit doesn't help people who don't have enough tax liability...

I'm still amazed at the guts of people who commit to a $40k new car when they're living on less than $5k/month income. Or the gall of people who earn more than that and work the system so they don't pay their share of taxes.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
FWIW, I'm not working at the moment but have PLENTY of savings (for MANY years, if needed). But, my current income is quite low (previously was not) and the tax credit can't be carried over to future years. That's part what'd be blocking me from buying a car where there's such a tax credit, or buying it too late in a year, when I start working again.

 

[thankyouOB]

^^^
FWIW, I'm not working at the moment but have PLENTY of savings (for MANY years, if needed). But, my current income is quite low (previously was not) and the tax credit can't be carried over to future years. That's part what'd be blocking me from buying a car where there's such a tax credit, or buying it too late in a year, when I start working again.

if you even have a small retirement account, you can create whatever amount of "income" you need by moving savings from an IRA to a Roth.

 

[mwalsh]

^^^
FWIW, I'm not working at the moment but have PLENTY of savings (for MANY years, if needed). But, my current income is quite low (previously was not) and the tax credit can't be carried over to future years. That's part what'd be blocking me from buying a car where there's such a tax credit, or buying it too late in a year, when I start working again.

+1. I've been on 40% of my normal salary for 2 years now. Normally a $7500 credit would be perfect for my usual tax liability, but we even had to pull money from my wife's IRAs last year (she's old enough to take disbursements) to take full advantage of the tax credit for the LEAF. This is one of the many reasons I've changed my mind in the "If Nissan offered to buy back your degraded LEAF..." thread - I'd need to be back to full employment before I considered another car.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In a slightly non-apples to apples comparison, going by MSRP, a base PiP (which comes with nav) vs. a non-nav equipped '13 Volt ends up being only ~$2200 less because the Federal tax credit is only $2500 on a PiP vs. $7500 for a Volt. Unfortunately, the tax credit doesn't help people who don't have enough tax liability...

I'm still amazed at the guts of people who commit to a $40k new car when they're living on less than $5k/month income. Or the gall of people who earn more than that and work the system so they don't pay their share of taxes.

Ray

there are other possibilities. my household makes more than 5,000 a month but we file separately because it gives us more money back (single/single head of household) and neither of us has a 7500 liability.

i tried to manipulate my tax load for 2010 to have that much liability and ended up writing a check for $3200 to Uncle Sam at tax time because of the 2011 delivery.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I'm still amazed at the guts of people who commit to a $40k new car when they're living on less than $5k/month income. Or the gall of people who earn more than that and work the system so they don't pay their share of taxes.

Ray

As others have pointed out, income and wealth are not the same thing. I am retired so my income is essentially zero. I live off of savings and investments. By being thrifty and budgeting carefully for many years I saved up for my LEAF purchase (the line item in my budget is "car replacement fund"). To qualify for the tax credit I boosted my taxable income with an IRA to Roth IRA transfer (I'd have to pay those taxes someday, albeit at a slightly lower rate).

Not everyone who drives a LEAF has or needs a high income despite the surveys that seem to show otherwise. For me the LEAF isn't remotely cost-effective compared to a used ICE car. It is a toy I carefully saved up for over many years. Not everyone lives paycheck to paycheck.

 

[davewill]

Why can't Nissan do this? At the test drive I went to (First one in Santa Monica) they planned on that kind of thing - lease the battery, buy the car.

Turns out there are laws against this in the USA.

No there isn't. The only "legal" stumbling block was that the battery leasing scenario wasn't compatible with the way the $7500 tax credit was written.

 

[DesertDenizen]

As others have pointed out, income and wealth are not the same thing. I am retired so my income is essentially zero. I live off of savings and investments. By being thrifty and budgeting carefully for many years I saved up for my LEAF purchase (the line item in my budget is "car replacement fund"). To qualify for the tax credit I boosted my taxable income with an IRA to Roth IRA transfer (I'd have to pay those taxes someday, albeit at a slightly lower rate).

I am in the same boat as dgpcolorado, a small pension but mostly living off investments. I wanted to do some rebalancing anyway, but had been putting it off due to the tax consequences so last year I sold some stock to benefit from the tax credit. With my photo voltaic system and my low daily driving miles the Leaf was a no-brainer for me.

 

[JimSouCal]

Isn't the scheme of leasing and then buying out the lease right away a legal and viable scheme to capture the full $7500 fed credit. I did not do it, but given the hassle of getting the $7500 credit back from the IRS that emerged, I'd sure look into that route now...

BTW, and back on topic, regarding range and battery. My plan is to keep the leaf for at least a decade, and my thought was if it retains 60% of range, then that works for 95% of my driving, and I have a special rental rate of $25/day for an ICE down at Hertz, which I have yet to use (given another ICE car in household). I think those who relied on the 100 mile range marketing ploy may have been unfairly led into getting something that doesn't work for them.

Most folks, if they have L2 charging at home and their work destination will be okay, I think, if the commute is relatively short. Just sayin...

 

[Stukid]

Let's go back to the main point of the topic, what will or should Nissan do to address the issue.
I am employed at a Japanese Luxury car dealership that sells many hybrid vehicles. You figure out which brand.
My point is I have seen first hand how a manufacturer handles technical concerns. I don't know how Nissan handles these at the dealership level, but L has different levels of both perceived and real technical issues.
If a new model has an issue, the dealership will handle the concern to determine if it's real or operator error. (I know the battery issue isn't operator error, but with new technology, not every one reads or understands how things are supposed to work...)
If the problem is real, then a call is made to the Technical Assistance Team in Torrence CA. Depending on the nature, it will be resolved or escalated. If need be, a Field Technical Specialist will be sent from the regional office. If it can't be addresses at that level, engineers from CA are flown in, and the vehicle will be inspected, tested, and evaluated. It is an impressive operation to watch a team of engineers with computers and test boxes go through a vehicle. Only once to the best of my knowledge have I seen a car bought back at our dealership because of technical issues.
The Japanese are very prideful of their product, and are generally very concerned if something isn't right. I hope Nissan is the same way. They can test all they want in the laboratory and test track, but there is something about having Ma & Pa Kettle behind the wheel.
I believe that if Nissan knows of a real problem, they are working toward a real fix. The fix may not be in our generation of Leaf, but perhaps in the next.
Unlike Detroit which just keeps on building junk (is today's American car still junk?) the quality of Japanese cars are superior.