LA Times article rates LEAF 3rd behind 500e and Fit

[JimSouCal]

Well I really like my LEAF but writer Brian Thevenot ranks the LEAF behind Honda Fit and Fiat 500e...

"Here's how they stacked up: Third place: Nissan Leaf.."

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-0601-hy-autos-electric-cars-20130531,0,131053.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The main diss against the LEAF seems to be a complaint about the styling... Well now...


Electric car price war shifts into high gear
The Times test drives the Nissan Leaf, Fiat 500e and Honda Fit EV to see how they stack up in the race to go green.

By Brian Thevenot, Los Angeles Times
6:00 AM PDT, May 31, 2013

Want to pay $7,000 for a $37,000 electric car?

It's not a trick question. For the first time, through the magic of subsidized leases, electric vehicles can now compete on price with comparable gas-powered cars — indeed, they are cheaper once you factor in gas savings.

Honda announced this week that it would drop the lease on its Fit EV from $389 to $259 a month. That price includes collision and vehicle theft coverage, maintenance, roadside assistance, even a charging station at your house. Factoring in the state rebate, that's an all-in, three-year ownership cost of less than $7,000 — maybe the cheapest $37,000 car in history.

Still, the Fit will have to compete with the recently announced $199-a-month leases on the Nissan Leaf and the Fiat 500e, among other emerging rivals.
...

 

[Stoaty]

Yes, and here is what they have to say about the second place Fiat:

"The compromises come in utility. This is a much smaller, less practical car than the Honda or the Nissan. It has a tiny back seat and relatively little cargo room, even with the rear seats folded down."

No thanks.

Here is what they have to say about the first place Fit:

"You can't even buy the car. Honda will only lease it to you."
"But the electric Fit handles plenty well enough for the likely uses of its tiny group of potential buyers."

You can't buy it, and there is only a tiny group of potential owners. No thanks. By my criteria, the Leaf still wins hands down. I have a car that will seat 5, it has been in my garage for two years, and it will probably be there for another 10 years.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Leaf is still the only generally available moderate price EV game in town. It's good to hear the mindset moving toward competition though. All the Tesla buzz has really stirred things up; other manufacturers are starting to fidget.

 

[leafedbehind]

"Want to pay $7,000 for a $37,000 electric car?"

That's not a trick question, it's a dumb question! You pay $7000 for the right to drive it for three years, not to own it. And the $37,000 doesn't really mean anything anyway since a) you can't buy it and b) it was based on the previous lease rate, so the effective MSRP is now much lower, although I guess state registration fees are based on part on the published MSRP.

 

[leafedbehind]

"But such nitpicking isn't likely to stop Honda from meeting its modest goal of leasing 1,100 Fit EVs combined in this model year and the next. Now that's its priced right, maybe even below market, Honda might get more business than it can handle."

I think that's quite accurate. At this price, the 1,100 cars will be gone in five weeks. I hope that's what they were planning on!

 

[KeiJidosha]

...electric vehicles can now compete on price with comparable gas-powered cars — indeed, they are cheaper once you factor in gas savings...

Translation, no losers. Pick LEAF for room, 500e for style, or Fit EV for performance, it's still a financial win over ICE. And that's news.

 

[GregH]

" loaded, with navigation, three driving modes..."

Maybe if the Honda FIT-EV had 5 or 6 driving modes it'd be even better!! How about 10 modes?

One thing the article misses is that only the Leaf has an optional DCQC port which reduces (somewhat) the need for more range or even faster on-board charging... At least it will as the number of Chademo stations finally looks to be increasing.

 

[apvbguy]

Translation, no losers. Pick LEAF for room, 500e for style, or Fit EV for performance, it's still a financial win over ICE. And that's news.

correctomundo!
the fact that there are more and more variations of EVs being offered can only be viewed as a good thing.
it takes a long time for revolutionary concepts like this to take hold and the fact that there are more players coming to the party who are offering more choices in range, size, and pricing is a huge step in the right direction.

 

[RegGuheert]

Well I really like my LEAF but writer Brian Thevenot ranks the LEAF behind Honda Fit and Fiat 500e...

"Here's how they stacked up: Third place: Nissan Leaf.."

It seems that Mr. Thevenot's ranking of the Honda Fit EV versus the Nissan LEAF is in the tiny minority considering the LEAF has outsold the Honda Fit by a factor of 80X through the first four months of 2013 (5476 LEAFs versus 68 Fit EVs). Yes the Fit is only available in CA, so perhaps the ratio there is only 20X or so. Regardless, it seems that consumers use different criteria when making EV purchasing decisions than this writer does when recommending EVs. As such, his opinion is somewhat irrelevant for most EV buyers.

Perhaps the new lease rate for the Fit will reduce the large difference a bit, but I seriously doubt that either the Fit EV OR the 500e will ever outsell the Nissan LEAF in CA.

 

[thankyouOB]

...electric vehicles can now compete on price with comparable gas-powered cars — indeed, they are cheaper once you factor in gas savings...

Translation, no losers. Pick LEAF for room, 500e for style, or Fit EV for performance, it's still a financial win over ICE. And that's news.

I like the anime look of the LEAF. very appropriate and lovable.

 

[GRA]

Well I really like my LEAF but writer Brian Thevenot ranks the LEAF behind Honda Fit and Fiat 500e...

"Here's how they stacked up: Third place: Nissan Leaf.."

It seems that Mr. Thevenot's ranking of the Honda Fit EV versus the Nissan LEAF is in the tiny minority considering the LEAF has outsold the Honda Fit by a factor of 80X through the first four months of 2013 (5476 LEAFs versus 68 Fit EVs). Yes the Fit is only available in CA, so perhaps the ratio there is only 20X or so. Regardless, it seems that consumers use different criteria when making EV purchasing decisions than this writer does when recommending EVs. As such, his opinion is somewhat irrelevant for most EV buyers.

Perhaps the new lease rate for the Fit will reduce the large difference a bit, but I seriously doubt that either the Fit EV OR the 500e will ever outsell the Nissan LEAF in CA.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the Fit's high price was the major factor in its low lease rate, and we'll now see a big jump. What's far more important is that there are now three (soon to be five) BEVs for a variety of tastes and needs at essentially the same price. Not everyone wants or needs five pax. capacity - my Forester is nominally a five pax. car (really 4 adults and at most a child for any distance), but in the 10+ years I've owned it I can count on my fingers, with maybe one or two left over, the number of times I've had anyone in a rear seat. The number of times when that was essential is substantially less than that. OTOH, the number of times I've had the back full of gear, like my bike, or helping a friend move, or backpacking/skiing/diving stuff, or me (sleeping) has been much larger.

So, if you just need a small fun car for one or two person commuting and urban use, the Fiat (or likely Spark EV) will suit you fine, if you can't accept a Smart. If you regularly haul around lots of bodies and the fun factor is less important, the Leaf looks like the best for you. And if you want both fun and versatile, the Fit is a great choice and now a good deal. As KeiJidosha said, no losers here, and they will only help the BEV market niche expand.

 

[RegGuheert]

What's far more important is that there are now three (soon to be five) BEVs for a variety of tastes and needs at essentially the same price.

That's only true in CA. There is only one BEV for sale in the LEAF's price range around here.

The point is that most people in CA realize that Toyota is not really committed to the RAV4 EV and Honda is not really committed to the Honda Fit EV. IMO, that is why they aren't selling even though they are outstanding vehicles technically. Just like the lower purchase price on the RAV4 EV has not caused sales to spike, the lower lease rate on the Fit will help but it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I would like a smaller EV and if the FIAT were at the same average quality level as the LEAF I would have bout it over the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

What's far more important is that there are now three (soon to be five) BEVs for a variety of tastes and needs at essentially the same price.

That's only true in CA. There is only one BEV for sale in the LEAF's price range around here.

The point is that most people in CA realize that Toyota is not really committed to the RAV4 EV and Honda is not really committed to the Honda Fit EV. IMO, that is why they aren't selling even though they are outstanding vehicles technically. Just like the lower purchase price on the RAV4 EV has not caused sales to spike, the lower lease rate on the Fit will help but it doesn't solve the underlying problem.

Are you kidding? Most people in California don't even know that there _are_ any BEVs for sale, let alone the advantages or disadvantages of specific ones And I do think there has been or will be a spike in RAV4EV sales since Tesla cancelled the 40kWh S, as long as Toyota keeps pumping money in to lower the price to what's seen as acceptable. The RAV4 is the cheapest BEV that has enough range for average people to be comfortable. It's certainly the cheapest one currently available that could meet even my minimum range needs, although the lack of QC is a major handicap for me. But I've long since accepted that it will likely be at least five years before any BEV can meet most of my needs at a price I can afford.

 

[Stoaty]

Are you kidding? Most people in California don't even know that there _are_ any BEVs for sale, let alone the advantages or disadvantages of specific ones

Sadly, I have to agree. Even people at work that I have explained that my Leaf is all electric and uses no gas have asked me a month later how many MPG I get. They seem surprised when I remind them that the Leaf does not have a gasoline engine, just an electric motor.

 

[RegGuheert]

Are you kidding?

Nope. That's my prediction. We'll see what happens.

 

[kubel]

Are you kidding?

Nope. That's my prediction. We'll see what happens.

I don't think it's an issue of people not knowing EVs exist. If so, Nissan EV sales would be as pitiful as Toyota. I agree with RegGuheert. It's an issue of Toyota not making a commitment. The RAV4 EV is an excellent EV. But it's a compliance car. Toyota has no interest in taking any risks to push sales on this car (except that which is required per mandates). As long as they can sell their bread and butter cars, RAV4EV sales are not their concern. Compliance cars are poison for this reason.

 

[nosuchthing]

I finally got to drive Honda FEV. Even signed up to pick one up today. But, as it happens, we changed our mind after doing due dilligence by going on FEV forum run by this My ElectricCars site: http://www.myhondafitev.com/forum/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First thing I noticed was more road noise as compared to Leaf. Doors feel thinner, and you are definitely in a more cramped environment, particularly in the back seats and front shoulder room. No elbowrest for the front passenger either. Dash has busy readouts, smaller numbers. I found myself missing the "simplicity" of the Leaf. Also, that ignition key thingy in FEV - that is really dumb. Honda must have fallen asleep at the switch there. I delight in starting up my Leaf with no key or a gadget in hand.

But most importantly, I focused on parsing info about the real-life FEV range. As I read the FEV forum it became painfully clear that you simply don't get the advertised 82 miles range out of a 20kW battery, no matter what EPA says. Most owners were in the 60s range, particularly driving in sport mode, and by all accounts, AC use had a substantial negative impact on the range as well. I run AC in my Leaf 80% of the time and I know the range impact is pretty much negligible.

So, ultimately, that killed the deal.

As far as the pricing between 260 bucks with no down for FEV and 200 bucks and 2000 down for Leaf - that's a washout (260 vs. 255). So the only discernible difference between the two EVs is no mileage limit for FEV vs. 12,000 limit for Leaf. I think that Nissan should match no limit and it will get more business once the dust settles. I already have a L2 at home, so I don't need a free one, and I am not cancelling my AAA just because Honda throws in free comprehensive coverage.

I look forward to see 2014 FEV as to the improvements, and also what will Nissan throw in to address the FEV pricing development.

Finally, I am leery of anything that has FIAT badge on it. And I really don't know how Fiat plans to fix its "fix it again, Tony" image it has cultivated here since the 60s or so. Of course the young gen doesn't know this, but they will find out, won't they?

 

[evnow]

Finally, I am leery of anything that has FIAT badge on it. And I really don't know how Fiat plans to fix its "fix it again, Tony" image it has cultivated here since the 60s or so. Of course the young gen doesn't know this, but they will find out, won't they?

Obviously Fiat hopes they won't - just as GM/Ford etc hope people quickly forget the "quality" they put out a few years back.

 

[GRA]

<snip>
Finally, I am leery of anything that has FIAT badge on it. And I really don't know how Fiat plans to fix its "fix it again, Tony" image it has cultivated here since the 60s or so. Of course the young gen doesn't know this, but they will find out, won't they?

Until Fiat proves to me that they've moved beyond their well-earned rep, there's no way I would buy a 500e. Since we recommend that most people lease BEVs for the next few years, that's not an issue in any case. And for those who'd like a bit more info, found this:

"Honda Fit vs. Fiat 500 Reliability Comparisons"

http://www.truedelta.com/Honda-Fit/reliability-99/vs-500-1014real-time" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; info

It's not going to help with the EV specific stuff unless they start tracking those too, but it will give an idea of the non-powertrain issues.