LA Times article rates LEAF 3rd behind 500e and Fit

[TomT]

I've driven a few Fiat 500s over the last year - the Abarth is amazing, by the way - and the build quality on all of them seemed excellent. They garnered an above average reliability rating in the latest CR report...

I would like a smaller EV and if the FIAT were at the same average quality level as the LEAF I would have bout it over the LEAF.

 

[GRA]

I've driven a few Fiat 500s over the last year - the Abarth is amazing, by the way - and the build quality on all of them seemed excellent. They garnered an above average reliability rating in the latest CR report...

I would like a smaller EV and if the FIAT were at the same average quality level as the LEAF I would have bout it over the LEAF.

I hear they've still got that weird driving position, for those of us who are nostalgic :lol: I did like the looks of the 124 Sport Coupe (knew a guy with one painted yellow with a black top), but given that you could buy a less handsome but far more reliable used 510 instead, who wanted to put up with the Fiat's hassle?

 

[JimSouCal]

Well, just to report my own personal wrap up...

I looked at and sat in a Gasser Honda Fit, and the doors close and feel kind if weak, as others mentioned, and it's kinda small (have an even smaller sports car gasser and my LEAF is myDD and "hauler" from Home Depot, etc.). Handling might be better but not enough and LEASE only... And...

Burned in "Fiat fear" keeps me from ever buying a Fiat (this will be forever, but a lease would be a maybe).

So far, I am still very happy with my 2011 LEAF purchase--even with hindsight would do it over again...

 

[GRA]

Jay Cole (statik here) did a specs/look and feel comparo of the 500e and Spark EV at insideevs.com:

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/interior-camparison-spark-fiat.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd add the following advantages/features for the Spark EV:

1. L (high regen) mode.

2. Moving shift lever vs. push button mode select. Despite having grown up riding around in my mom's '59 Rambler and '61 Plymouth wagon with push button gear selection, I much prefer an actual, movable lever than can be positioned by feel. But I prefer sticks, so no surprise there.

2. Three rotary dial (manual?) HVAC controls. The Fiat has ACC, and the controls look better than some (at least they're actual toggle buttons instead of touch-sensitive), but still require too much looking at them to use without distraction. Better photos can be found here:

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Chevrolet-Spark_EV_2014_photo_08.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theignitionblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/fiat-500e-rental-program-04.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know some like ACC; personally I hate it. Chevy's website just lists "HVAC" without any details, so I don't know if it has ACC or not.

 

[planet4ever]

As far as the pricing between 260 bucks with no down for FEV and 200 bucks and 2000 down for Leaf - that's a washout (260 vs. 255). So the only discernible difference between the two EVs is no mileage limit for FEV vs. 12,000 limit for Leaf. I think that Nissan should match no limit and it will get more business once the dust settles.

You need to face an unpleasant economic fact. Unlimited lease mileage only works with a closed end lease. i.e. with a car that is going to be crushed at the end of the lease. The LEAF is not, and will not be, a compliance car. The FEV is, and will be forgotten in a few years.

Ray

 

[TomT]

I had a Fiat 124 Sport Spyder and a 124 Sport Coupe at different times, and loved both of them. Great, fun cars to drive and both gave me years of reliable service.

I hear they've still got that weird driving position, for those of us who are nostalgic :lol: I did like the looks of the 124 Sport Coupe (knew a guy with one painted yellow with a black top)

 

[GRA]

I hear they've still got that weird driving position, for those of us who are nostalgic :lol: I did like the looks of the 124 Sport Coupe (knew a guy with one painted yellow with a black top)

I had a Fiat 124 Sport Spyder and a 124 Sport Coupe at different times, and loved both of them. Great, fun cars to drive and both gave me years of reliable service.

The Sport Spyder was nice, but I always figured if I was willing to take a chance on an Italian roadster I'd go for an Alfa instead. My favorite 'affordable' sport coupe for looks were the Alfa Giulia/1750/2000 GTV series, which always appeared to be accelerating even when standing still, as they 'sat back on their haunches'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_105/115_Series_Coup%C3%A9s#Giulia_Sprint_GT_.281963.E2.80.931966.29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A friend of mine's dad owned a Giulia, along with a succession of used Citroen DS 21 wagons. The latter were nightmares to work on, but man, what ride quality.

 

[RonDawg]

As far as the pricing between 260 bucks with no down for FEV and 200 bucks and 2000 down for Leaf - that's a washout (260 vs. 255). So the only discernible difference between the two EVs is no mileage limit for FEV vs. 12,000 limit for Leaf. I think that Nissan should match no limit and it will get more business once the dust settles.

You need to face an unpleasant economic fact. Unlimited lease mileage only works with a closed end lease. i.e. with a car that is going to be crushed at the end of the lease.

Exactly. "Unlimited mileage" makes sense for Honda as it makes no economic difference if they crush a car with only 10k or 100k on the odometer.

OTOH with the residuals looking a bit optimistic, NMAC needs to wring every last dollar from their off-lease Leafs at auction, and so can't be as generous with their terms.

 

[kikbuti]

I am happy with my Leaf. However, I agree with the author about the styling. It's a matter of taste. My wife and some of my friends really like the looks of the Leaf. I prefer the Fiat 500. Although smaller, it is roomy and comfortable for the driver. I care about hauling myself, not others. I like the fit, finish, materials, colors and designs on the Fiat interior. Like the Fiat X19 I owned in the 70's, the Italians paid attention to details in the cabin. My biggest gripes with the Fiat 500e is that it isn't available outside California and the navigation screen is still an afterthought. The navigation looks like a crude aftermarket add-on. I believe it is a Tom Tom.

 

[cwerdna]

My biggest gripes with the Fiat 500e is that it isn't available outside California and the navigation screen is still an afterthought. The navigation looks like a crude aftermarket add-on. I believe it is a Tom Tom.

You are correct about the nav being a special TomTom.

As for not available outside CA, well, it's because it's built only for the purpose of being a CA compliance car.

 

[RegGuheert]

2. Three rotary dial (manual?) HVAC controls. The Fiat has ACC, and the controls look better than some (at least they're actual toggle buttons instead of touch-sensitive), but still require too much looking at them to use without distraction. Better photos can be found here:

http://photo.netcarshow.com/Chevrolet-Spark_EV_2014_photo_08.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theignitionblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/fiat-500e-rental-program-04.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know some like ACC; personally I hate it. Chevy's website just lists "HVAC" without any details, so I don't know if it has ACC or not.

Our Honda Civic Hybrid has three rotory dials plus an A/C button for HVAC and it allows fully automatic climate control, fully manual climate control and two partially automatic modes (auto fan speed and auto air direction). The controls are trivial to understand and use and they just work. It is, by far, the most intuitive climate control system I have ever used. The only limitation I see is that there are not separate controls for driver and passenger other than control of the outlet vents.

Hopefully the Spark EV has something along the lines of this, but based on GM's description it sounds like it might just be fully manual.

 

[TonyWilliams]

...electric vehicles can now compete on price with comparable gas-powered cars — indeed, they are cheaper once you factor in gas savings...

Translation, no losers. Pick LEAF for room, 500e for style, or Fit EV for performance, it's still a financial win over ICE. And that's news.

I think the tide is turning in the popular press that these aren't just "save the world" cars, but fun, economical, logical transportation choices.

And you wouldn't have any of them (besides Tesla and Nissan) if it wasn't for our very own California Air Resources Board holding the line.

 

[evnow]

As for not available outside CA, well, it's because it's built only for the purpose of being a CA compliance car.

We are going to see them in all the ZEV/CARB states, just as FITEV is now available.

 

[TonyWilliams]

As for not available outside CA, well, it's because it's built only for the purpose of being a CA compliance car.

We are going to see them in all the ZEV/CARB states, just as FITEV is now available.

I'm not sure the other states have the same ZEV rules; obviously, EV's aren't being sold in them from the "compliance" manufacturers. Toyota only sells in this state, and they'll do the same through 2015 when they switch to an H2 car for ZEV compliance... that will only be sold in the California.

 

[RonDawg]

As for not available outside CA, well, it's because it's built only for the purpose of being a CA compliance car.

We are going to see them in all the ZEV/CARB states, just as FITEV is now available.

I'm not sure the other states have the same ZEV rules; obviously, EV's aren't being sold in them from the "compliance" manufacturers. Toyota only sells in this state, and they'll do the same through 2015 when they switch to an H2 car for ZEV compliance... that will only be sold in the California.

Plus as Marchionne has already complained how his company loses quite a bit of money on each one, I doubt he's going to build any more 500e's than he absolutely has to.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Fit EV is at a really compelling price right now.

The 500e, forget it no way it edges the Leaf.

 

[TomT]

I disagree. It looks like a fairly compelling package. Anyone who liked the Mini E will probably also like the 500EV...

The 500e, forget it no way it edges the Leaf.

 

[thankyouOB]

i dont know about the e version, but i drove a loaner fiat 500 the other day while my leaf was getting some love.
a rattle trap.

 

[MTNRanger]

Hopefully the Spark EV has something along the lines of this, but based on GM's description it sounds like it might just be fully manual.

The Spark EV has auto climate control.