Leaf and Volt

[LEAFfan]

Maybe Nissan should put in bigger batteries to help solve some of these issues?

For our climate, an active, liquid cooling system would be best (at least until a battery can be designed and put into production, which is far more heat tolerant).

Sorry, that ain't gonna happen.

 

[Weatherman]

Sorry, that ain't gonna happen.

Which is why I plan to give my LEAF back to Nissan sometime in the next two years and never look back.

 

[TomT]

The service manual has the exact percentages but I don't have it in front of me at the moment... There may be some slight difference from bar to bar, particularly at the lower levels, plus as I remember, the cap meter does not actually go all the way to zero...

15% versus 6.25% so more like 2 1/2 times as much...

Fortunately this is not an issue for me, but I'm still curious: 15% + 11*6.25% = 83.75%

Where's the remaining 16.25% represented?

 

[TomT]

+1!

Sorry, that ain't gonna happen.

Which is why I plan to give my LEAF back to Nissan sometime in the next two years and never look back.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

For me the saddest part about possibly sending the Leaf packing is the message it sends to people around me about EVs... not that I think for a minute people look to emulate what I do, but there has been a fair amount of curiosity surrounding my Leaf experience to say the least. If I go back to a cheap ICE after the Leaf that will be confirmation of prejudices (range, battery life)... if a guy who was enthusiastic about the whole idea wouldn't do it again, they probably don't want get mixed up in it.

 

[LKK]

For me the saddest part about possibly sending the Leaf packing is the message it sends to people around me about EVs... not that I think for a minute people look to emulate what I do, but there has been a fair amount of curiosity surrounding my Leaf experience to say the least. If I go back to a cheap ICE after the Leaf that will be confirmation of prejudices (range, battery life)... if a guy who was enthusiastic about the whole idea wouldn't do it again, they probably don't want get mixed up in it.

Perhaps you won't have to. The next generation of BEVs, including the Leaf, may have resolved a lot of the issue early adopters like you have come across.

 

[planet4ever]

15% versus 6.25% so more like 2 1/2 times as much...

Fortunately this is not an issue for me, but I'm still curious: 15% + 11*6.25% = 83.75%. Where's the remaining 16.25% represented?

The service manual has the exact percentages but I don't have it in front of me at the moment... There may be some slight difference from bar to bar, particularly at the lower levels, plus as I remember, the cap meter does not actually go all the way to zero...

Correction: The Service Manual had the percentages in its very first edition, but they were removed in the April 2011 revision, and AFAIK have never been restored. Maybe because they were not accurate; maybe for some other reason. We really don't know why. But, yes, the old chart showed that segment 1 disappeared at 16.25%. There is a fat hidden bar down there, just like the fat hidden charge bar in most 2011 and 2012 LEAFs.

Of course the real answer is that by the time the battery gets down to the two red bars it's worn out for all practical purposes, at least as an EV power source.

Ray

 

[scottf200]

I have 10 bars so I have lost two. I will monitor this closely and if I lose 4 then I will get my battery replaced.

Florida should be easier on it then Arizona.

So it does not sound like any of this was disclosed to you when you made the purchase. It is incredulous NISSAN / Dealers are treating customers like this.

 

[TomT]

Unless it has a new battery chemistry that is immune to heat degradation or a TMS, it will not have resolved one of the biggest issue that I have with the Leaf...

Perhaps you won't have to. The next generation of BEVs, including the Leaf, may have resolved a lot of the issue early adopters like you have come across.

 

[surfingslovak]

15% versus 6.25% so more like 2 1/2 times as much...

Fortunately this is not an issue for me, but I'm still curious: 15% + 11*6.25% = 83.75%

Where's the remaining 16.25% represented?

Why would the capacity bars have to add up to 100%? Is it some exercise in numerology? My interpretation is that when all the capacity bars have disappeared, the LEAF will be in a perpetual state of low battery warning. The LBW comes on at 4 kWh stored (about 3.3 kWh usable). This reserve appears to be fixed by design. This corresponds nearly exactly to 16% of the original usable capacity when new. When you look at this from that angle, perhaps it makes more sense. Considering that Nissan has introduced a replacement warranty at eight bars remaining, the question what happens when all the bars have disappeared is somewhat academic. For now anyway.

 

[TomT]

Assuming, of course, that you opt for the $100 a month forever deal after the initial warranty is up...

Considering that Nissan has introduced a replacement warranty at eight bars remaining, the question what happens when all the bars have disappeared is somewhat academic. For now anyway.

 

[surfingslovak]

Assuming, of course, that you opt for the $100 a month forever deal after the initial warranty is up...

Considering that Nissan has introduced a replacement warranty at eight bars remaining, the question what happens when all the bars have disappeared is somewhat academic. For now anyway.

Yes, of course. When I said "for now", I alluded to the fact that it would take a few years for any out-of-warranty LEAFs to reach this state. I would think that most owners would try to unload the car once it has lost considerable amount of range. Either that or enroll in the battery lease program.

 

[RonDawg]

I have 10 bars so I have lost two. I will monitor this closely and if I lose 4 then I will get my battery replaced.

Florida should be easier on it then Arizona.

So it does not sound like any of this was disclosed to you when you made the purchase. It is incredulous NISSAN / Dealers are treating customers like this.

1. I checked and I don't see anywhere where the OP said he bought the car from a Nissan dealer. It's used so it could have been bought from any dealer.

2. What makes you think GM's dealers, or anybody else's, are any better than Nissan's dealers?

 

[adric22]

For me the saddest part about possibly sending the Leaf packing is the message it sends to people around me about EVs... not that I think for a minute people look to emulate what I do, but there has been a fair amount of curiosity surrounding my Leaf experience to say the least. If I go back to a cheap ICE after the Leaf that will be confirmation of prejudices (range, battery life)... if a guy who was enthusiastic about the whole idea wouldn't do it again, they probably don't want get mixed up in it.

I have a similar conundrum. I've been touting the Leaf to people for 2 years. And I still love the car. But every since my wife got the Volt and I've been driving it a lot, I'm hooked and I want to make the switch. Some people who've seen me driving the Volt to work think I've already traded in the Leaf and they want to know why. So I just have to tell them that we still have the Leaf and it is a great car and I would still highly recommend it for people with short commutes (under 40 miles) but that I just like the Volt better for personal reasons of style and taste and that with my short commute the Volt works out to be a pure electric car for me on a practical daily application, reserving the gas for only long trips out of town.

 

[aleph5]

The LEAF DD is an awesome device, but to say it's the simplest, lowest cost is simply not true. An Android prepaid phone $40, BT OBDII connector $18 (stubby), and T3's LEAF Battery App (free but a donation is really appreciated) is the simplest and lowest cost device out there.

I didn't do an exhaustive search of every combination of gear, but doesn't a prepaid phone still require a monthly payment? If you're already in a non-Android contract or just don't want to part with your iPhone, whatever, it seems your solution would cost more. Further, your collection of three pieces goes to my point of getting a single, plug'n'play device. But it's good to know alternatives. YMMV, etc.

 

[mwalsh]

I didn't do an exhaustive search of every combination of gear, but doesn't a prepaid phone still require a monthly payment? If you're already in a non-Android contract or just don't want to part with your iPhone, whatever, it seems your solution would cost more.

No, you simply don't activate the phone. It will still work except you won't be able to make calls with it (calls to 911 may be an exception, but I"m not sure). Oh, and it will continue to nag you over activating it each time it's first turned on. Other than that, there is no significant downside except having more stuff to tote (and even that's not a problem if you leave the phone as a semi-permanent installation in the car).

 

[scottf200]

ASIDE:

I have 10 bars so I have lost two. I will monitor this closely and if I lose 4 then I will get my battery replaced.
Florida should be easier on it then Arizona.

So it does not sound like any of this was disclosed to you when you made the purchase. It is incredulous NISSAN / Dealers are treating customers like this.

1. I checked and I don't see anywhere where the OP said he bought the car from a Nissan dealer. It's used so it could have been bought from any dealer.
2. What makes you think GM's dealers, or anybody else's, are any better than Nissan's dealers?

Fair enough. Over the past couple years I've watched how Nissan has treated this battery degradation problem and the early adopters. It is stunningly bad. They could be very aggressive about fixing this and any used LEAF sold or returned leased LEAF (when new owner takes to dealer for maint or based on carwings or whatever). They have a new battery producing plant in TN. They have cash from many sales of their other cars (including ones from the new TN plant!!!). This battery issue may haunt them and the DCFCing. You early adopters of the LEAF deserve so much better, IMO.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

People have been asking me which I like better, the leaf or the volt, and so far I have been giving them a long-winded answer about how the cars are different blah blah blah. I'm beginning to think there's an easier answer, plain and simple I like the volt better and newcomers to the scene probably will too. And as far as something to recommend to people that won't make demands on them it really is a better solution, at least for the here and now.

 

[MrIanB]

I like my Volt as much as my Leaf. They both serve a different purpose. The Volt for commuting and long trips and the Leaf exclusively as in town car.

The Volt is a purchase and will keep till I can buy a Tesla. The Leaf is a lease and will be going back when lease is up due to their battery warranty since I am in Texas.

Ian B

 

[aleph5]

No, you simply don't activate the phone...

OK. Good to know. Guess you could buy any cheapo Android tablet at Big Lots, et. al., as long as it has Bluetooth. Thanks.