Level 1 charger question

[MtnPete]

We just bought a used 2023 Leaf and it came with a non-OEM portable 120/240 charger (Schumacker brand). Currently I am charging from our solar battery a couple of hours/day using 120 from a 15 Amp plug in the garage (with no other loads). After reading alot these last few days I found that the charger charges at around 1700 watts rather than 1400 (12 Amps) which doesn't appear to be safe for continuous use. So I am looking to buy a Level 1 12 Amp charger. My friend has an extra Bolt Level 1 charger - is there any problem using it with my Leaf? It is 12Amp, (draws 1434watts).

 

[Dooglas]

I have used a Bolt L1 charger with my 2019 LEAF so the answer is evidently yes. Out of curiosity, 1-2 hours a day of L1 charging doesn't result in much of a charge. Does that meet your needs?

 

[RNeil]

Any J1772 charger should work.

1700 watts = 14.2 amps at 120 volts. This is safe for continuous use on a 20 amp circuit, but too much for a 15 amp circuit.

 

[MtnPete]

I have used a Bolt L1 charger with my 2019 LEAF so the answer is evidently yes. Out of curiosity, 1-2 hours a day of L1 charging doesn't result in much of a charge. Does that meet your needs?

It does for my local short trips - when I go into Asheville (20 miles away) i use a public level 2 charger. Before winter I will put in a Level 2 in my garage because we don't have extra solar power during Nov-Jan. Thanks for the answer!

 

[LeafBoy556]

I have some experience with codes and standards. The relevant code here is NFPA 70 aka the National Electrical Code (NEC). You can read it for free online. Section 210.19(A) states that a circuit has to be sized for at least 125% of its continuous load. Section 100 defines “continuous” as 3 hours or more. One way to interpret that is a 15 Amp circuit should not be continuously loaded over 12 Amps. Another way to interpret that is your 15 Amp circuit must be built so that it can safely tolerate 18.75 Amps forever, even though you should never actually load it that high. In my opinion the second interpretation is the correct one. 1700 Watts divided by 120 Volts equals 14.2 Amps. I encourage you to read NEC and decide for yourself.

One important caveat: it is critically important that all of the equipment in your circuit is properly sized and properly installed. If you are not absolutely sure, it’s worth your time and money to get it checked out.

Personal experience FWIW: Part of my old job was investigating serious electrical fires. A bad fire can really disrupt your life even if you don’t get hurt. Please trust me, I’ve been the guy with the shovel digging out the ashes. I tried charging my Leaf on a sketchy old 120 Volt outlet and the plug got warm enough to make me very nervous. I paid about $1700 to have a new 240 Volt 50 Amp circuit installed for L2 charging. The added peace of mind and convenience were worth the cost to me. Good luck and enjoy your Leaf!

 

[Jeffstumpf]

We just bought a used 2023 Leaf and it came with a non-OEM portable 120/240 charger (Schumacker brand). Currently I am charging from our solar battery a couple of hours/day using 120 from a 15 Amp plug in the garage (with no other loads). After reading alot these last few days I found that the charger charges at around 1700 watts rather than 1400 (12 Amps) which doesn't appear to be safe for continuous use. So I am looking to buy a Level 1 12 Amp charger. My friend has an extra Bolt Level 1 charger - is there any problem using it with my Leaf? It is 12Amp, (draws 1434watts).

 

[Jeffstumpf]

No problem with a different charger. However a dedicated 15 amp circuit should have no problem with a continuous draw of 1700 watts ( 14.16 amps). If wired with the correct AWG ( wire size ) it should be fine. If in doubt have an electrician check the wire ampacity.

 

[Joey21]

Charge off the 120V if you want but at least while you are learning your equipment, feel and touch everything for heat. There was a Prius guy several years back that apparently had sketchy bargain outlets in his house that did not tolerate a full load continuously. Ended up burning up a wall.

It is wise anytime you need to replace outlets that get loose or worn to buy the best outlets rather than the cheapest outlets at the hardware store. Same goes for extension cords. I have purchased some of the cheapest extension cords in the past. No bad b/c they were temporary use and running small loads like a desk fan or similar. Charging a car is very different b/c the load is many hours. Also wire size matters. Cheap extension cords have alot of resistance where they crimp the ends of the cord to the wire. Any resistance (and there is always some in everything) - any resistance makes heat. Best not to use an extension cord at all.

And who knows what size the wiring is in the wall.

 

[BillAinCT]

And do not "back stab" the wires into outlets and consider changing existing outlets if they are back stabbed. Use the screw terminals or clamps that better outlets might have, especially GFCI.

 

[cornbinder89]

I have some experience with codes and standards. The relevant code here is NFPA 70 aka the National Electrical Code (NEC). You can read it for free online. Section 210.19(A) states that a circuit has to be sized for at least 125% of its continuous load. Section 100 defines “continuous” as 3 hours or more. One way to interpret that is a 15 Amp circuit should not be continuously loaded over 12 Amps. Another way to interpret that is your 15 Amp circuit must be built so that it can safely tolerate 18.75 Amps forever, even though you should never actually load it that high. In my opinion the second interpretation is the correct one. 1700 Watts divided by 120 Volts equals 14.2 Amps. I encourage you to read NEC and decide for yourself.

One important caveat: it is critically important that all of the equipment in your circuit is properly sized and properly installed. If you are not absolutely sure, it’s worth your time and money to get it checked out.

Personal experience FWIW: Part of my old job was investigating serious electrical fires. A bad fire can really disrupt your life even if you don’t get hurt. Please trust me, I’ve been the guy with the shovel digging out the ashes. I tried charging my Leaf on a sketchy old 120 Volt outlet and the plug got warm enough to make me very nervous. I paid about $1700 to have a new 240 Volt 50 Amp circuit installed for L2 charging. The added peace of mind and convenience were worth the cost to me. Good luck and enjoy your Leaf!

I've never heard anyone interpretate the 2nd one, for one the C/B and wire would be upsize to 20 amp, commonly would be referred to as a 20 amp circuit. So in some ways it amounts to the same, a 15 breaker circuit and wire should be limited to 80% for continuous load. so if you want to over rate, you need 12 ga wire minimum and a 20 c/b but then the max load is 80% of that, back to where we started.

 

[nlspace]

Even the Tesla High Power Wall Charger with big fat wires can have thermal issues if the screw terminals are not secured:

 

[cornbinder89]

BTW, I find that a 240 volt 50 amp branch the most versatile when combined with an adjustable rate EVSE. Just because you have 40 amps continuous, doesn't mean you have to use it all, in fact the Leaf will not use more than 27.5. As I write this, mine is charging at 10 amp @240 volt. I have the option of the fixed OEM 120 volt charger, and 10,16,20,24,and 32 amps @ 240 volts.
I've seen a lot of messed up wiring, and wouldn't charge any vehicle off wiring I haven't inspected. Especially in older houses, you just don't know what is what until you look.
No reason not to charge with the 120 volt cord if the supply wiring and hardware are good, as long as it fits your needs.
Personally I rarely need the full capacity of charger in the Leaf, as I charge in the middle of the night, and time is not an issue, It matters little if it takes 1.5 hrs or 4, I am still sleeping.

 

[Jerther]

Even the Tesla High Power Wall Charger with big fat wires can have thermal issues if the screw terminals are not secured

Wow nice catch. That could've ended very badly... Yeah, screw terminals for high current lines must be given a very careful tightening: tighten, wiggle the cable, tighten again, wiggle, tighten... repeat until the screw doesn't loosen anymore. Live and learn!

 

[wjm2222]

We just bought a used 2023 Leaf and it came with a non-OEM portable 120/240 charger (Schumacker brand). Currently I am charging from our solar battery a couple of hours/day using 120 from a 15 Amp plug in the garage (with no other loads). After reading alot these last few days I found that the charger charges at around 1700 watts rather than 1400 (12 Amps) which doesn't appear to be safe for continuous use. So I am looking to buy a Level 1 12 Amp charger. My friend has an extra Bolt Level 1 charger - is there any problem using it with my Leaf? It is 12Amp, (draws 1434watts).

Hmm. The relevant number here is Amps. The Schumacher EVSE for sale at Lowe's tells the car to limit itself to 16 Amps. (Amps is the same everywhere in the circuit from the power panel to the car and back.) This computes to 106 Volts for 1,700 Watts, not a surprising voltage drop if you are using a 15 Amp circuit. That EVSE is meant for a 20A circuit and has the appropriate plug (blades at 90 degrees) to prevent using it on a 15A outlet, but comes with an adapter to allow that! The 125% rule is meant to avoid premature aging of the circuit breaker--the wires are capable of carrying the current. You need a 12A EVSE or a 20A circuit. You can use the Bolt EVSE. I have the OEM L1 portable cable from a 2012 Leaf if you want it.

 

[wjm2222]

I've never heard anyone interpretate the 2nd one, for one the C/B and wire would be upsize to 20 amp, commonly would be referred to as a 20 amp circuit. So in some ways it amounts to the same, a 15 breaker circuit and wire should be limited to 80% for continuous load. so if you want to over rate, you need 12 ga wire minimum and a 20 c/b but then the max load is 80% of that, back to where we started.

I agree, that's not a valid interpretation of the 125% rule. That rule exists to avoid premature aging from heat stress of the circuit breaker. The amperage rating of wire is based on resistance and the amount of heat generated (Watts) per foot at max Amps. The formula is Watts = Amps * Amps * Ohms.

 

[nlspace]

Give it a try and measure the current--i doubt it is running at 16A when on 120vac supply. Manual says "up to 16A" on 240.

 

[MtnPete]

Hmm. The relevant number here is Amps. The Schumacher EVSE for sale at Lowe's tells the car to limit itself to 16 Amps. (Amps is the same everywhere in the circuit from the power panel to the car and back.) This computes to 106 Volts for 1,700 Watts, not a surprising voltage drop if you are using a 15 Amp circuit. That EVSE is meant for a 20A circuit and has the appropriate plug (blades at 90 degrees) to prevent using it on a 15A outlet, but comes with an adapter to allow that! The 125% rule is meant to avoid premature aging of the circuit breaker--the wires are capable of carrying the current. You need a 12A EVSE or a 20A circuit. You can use the Bolt EVSE. I have the OEM L1 portable cable from a 2012 Leaf if you want it.

 

[MtnPete]

Thanks for your reply, I'm using my friend's Bolt charger and it's working well, happy to hear any 12 amp charger will work. You are right about the Schumacher's adapter, fits right into my 15Amp outlet.

 

[goldbrick]

That 'adapter' simply negates the plug convention that is intended to prevent a 20A device from being used on a 15A circuit. It may work forever or you may end up with a situation like that shown in post 11.

 

[LeafBoy556]

I agree, that's not a valid interpretation of the 125% rule. That rule exists to avoid premature aging from heat stress of the circuit breaker. The amperage rating of wire is based on resistance and the amount of heat generated (Watts) per foot at max Amps. The formula is Watts = Amps * Amps * Ohms.

Thanks for your reply. Let's not start some off-topic technical discussion about what Ohm's law really implies or about the details of wiring here. Is there a better forum for that somewhere? I'm still new here and haven't looked around much.