Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

[gaswalla]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

the sooner you can emotionally accept the facts and unload the car, the better. (carmax is your friend).. the resale value is in a current freefall. My guess is that 2011 LEAFS will be worth <10k by years end.

 

[TickTock]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

the sooner you can emotionally accept the facts and unload the car, the better. (carmax is your friend).. the resale value is in a current freefall. My guess is that 2011 LEAFS will be worth <10k by years end.

If you're putting 18k miles/year in a hot climate the Leaf is probably not an economical choice if cost of ownership is the only criteria for you. However, to anyone considering buying a Leaf that travels less than 30 miles/day I would say now is the time to buy... used.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If you're putting 18k miles/year in a hot climate the Leaf is probably not an economical choice if cost of ownership is the only criteria for you. However, to anyone considering buying a Leaf that travels less than 30 miles/day I would say now is the time to buy... used.

I would still lease a current LEAF in Phoenix with a 30 mile daily drive. I think it will go 24-36 months (don't do the typical 39 month lease, since its outside the warrantee).

The leases are getting better by the day. Even a 12-24 month lease for up to 50 mile commutes might be ok.

 

[WetEV]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

Over 80 miles... 60 miles LBW... I suspect that the Leaf isn't a good choice for you, unless you can add a charge stop.

Batteries lose capacity with time. Often 70% of original capacity is used for End Of Life (EOL).
Also, the Depth Of Discharge (DOD) has a strong effect on how fast batteries lose capacity. To get reasonable capacity life, the DOD should be around 30% to 80%. The combination of these two factors mean that your normal commute should be much less than 84 miles (or whatever you work out the new Leaf range is, depends on lots of factors including speed and climate). A maximum sort of range would be 84 miles *70% * 80% = 47 miles. Of course, a different "new Leaf range" will give a different commuting range. Also, a lower DOD will give better capacity life up to a point, 60% DOD will increase battery life, but would limit usual daily range to 35 miles.

LBW shouldn't be a common event, at least until you are getting close to or past 70% down.

Nissan should have been telling people this. They didn't.

 

[pb1]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

the sooner you can emotionally accept the facts and unload the car, the better. (carmax is your friend).. the resale value is in a current freefall. My guess is that 2011 LEAFS will be worth <10k by years end.

Appreciate the advice. Trying to get there but not easy to eat my own words after marketing the greatness of the all electric for the initial few months - was more cautious later though as the range started to drop. Once ready, it is more about the budget to see what to replace with and how quickly.

 

[pb1]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

Over 80 miles... 60 miles LBW... I suspect that the Leaf isn't a good choice for you, unless you can add a charge stop.

Batteries lose capacity with time. Often 70% of original capacity is used for End Of Life (EOL).
Also, the Depth Of Discharge (DOD) has a strong effect on how fast batteries lose capacity. To get reasonable capacity life, the DOD should be around 30% to 80%. The combination of these two factors mean that your normal commute should be much less than 84 miles (or whatever you work out the new Leaf range is, depends on lots of factors including speed and climate). A maximum sort of range would be 84 miles *70% * 80% = 47 miles. Of course, a different "new Leaf range" will give a different commuting range. Also, a lower DOD will give better capacity life up to a point, 60% DOD will increase battery life, but would limit usual daily range to 35 miles.

LBW shouldn't be a common event, at least until you are getting close to or past 70% down.

Nissan should have been telling people this. They didn't.

I use the drop in full charge number as a measure of battery capacity and the actual miles before LBW for my driving range. Agree that Nissan should have been more clear about this. Learned about the mismatch for my needs the hard way and in hind sight regret not going for the Volt which would have worked better for me.

 

[GRA]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore. Used to be able to do comfortably over 80 miles and now get the low battery warning around 60 miles. It has been showing only 1 bar loss but suspect we will see another disappear shortly given the full charge on guess o meter now shows 78 compared to 82 last month.

Have over 18k miles in about 13 months, regular SL and not the SL-e. Got five stars on the annual battery check with no answer on range issue. Nissan customer service responds by asking to continue to drive regularly and trust road side assistance for help. Also, refer to warranty addendum for other options.

Hope Nissan comes through with a better answer to fix this battery capacity loss in the next couple of months or will have to look at getting rid of this expensive experiment(sadly) taking the financial hit.

the sooner you can emotionally accept the facts and unload the car, the better. (carmax is your friend).. the resale value is in a current freefall. My guess is that 2011 LEAFS will be worth <10k by years end.

Appreciate the advice. Trying to get there but not easy to eat my own words after marketing the greatness of the all electric for the initial few months - was more cautious later though as the range started to drop. Once ready, it is more about the budget to see what to replace with and how quickly.

FFE or Volt, if you want to continue the experiment. Both have the liquid-cooled active TMS that the Leaf lacks. The Volt has a better battery warranty.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Price from 13700€ (17800$) (including government discount) and 79€ (100$) per month to rent the 23kWh battery (7800 miles a year).

Why does that mileage number sound familiar?

The smoking gun in their screwed up calculations for Phoenix. Using Euro numbers perhaps?

7767 miles equals 12,500km. [Edit: 12,000km equals 7455 miles]

So, if I'm an engineer looking at USA data in say, any country in the world on the French measuring system, it might be easy to confuse 12,500 as km, and then wrongly convert that 7800 miles.

Then make little adjustments, as any good engineer would do, for Phoenix (lowered to 7500) and raised for say, Boston.

 

[September]

Price from 13700€ (17800$) (including government discount) and 79€ (100$) per month to rent the 23kWh battery (7800 miles a year).

Why does that mileage number sound familiar?

The smoking gun in their screwed up calculations for Phoenix. Using Euro numbers perhaps?

7767 miles equals 12,500km.

So, if I'm an engineer looking at USA data in say, any country in the world on the French measuring system, it might be easy to confuse 12,500 as km, and then wrongly convert that 7800 miles.

Then make little adjustments, as any good engineer would do, for Phoenix (lowered to 7500) and raised for say, Boston.

Lowest lease is 6210 miles per year at least in Ireland.

Which makes me worried, I do about 13000 miles per year and just like Phoenix owners I drive my LEAF 60-75 mph on daily commute. I still have all bars but unfortunately no access to anything that would measure GIDs (btw if anyone with such device plans to visit Ireland let me know), however it seems according to Nissan that I use car in almost worst possible way.

 

[vegastar]

Don't worry... I live in North Portugal, wich is hotter than Ireland and do 18k miles/year. On the first year date (July 7) I had 220gids@80% charge wich is a 5% degradation. Today, with 21k miles, I have 213 gids@80% charge wich is an 8% degradation. The gids are recovering from a all time low of 210@80% charge, now that the weather is finally starting to cool.

 

[WetEV]

Lowest lease is 6210 miles per year at least in Ireland.

Which makes me worried, I do about 13000 miles per year and just like Phoenix owners I drive my LEAF 60-75 mph on daily commute. I still have all bars but unfortunately no access to anything that would measure GIDs (btw if anyone with such device plans to visit Ireland let me know), however it seems according to Nissan that I use car in almost worst possible way.

I would think that Ireland is in the 5 temperature bars or less almost all the time temperature zone. As a result, from the Wiki:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#What_To_Do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you almost always see five bars or less on the battery temperature gage, and it only gets up to six bars a handful of times each summer... Don't worry about it.

Faster capacity loss is being seen in hot places, not cool places.

 

[theaveng]

My guess is that 2011 LEAFS will be worth <10k by years end.

I'll buy one for that price. Drive it myself til I get tired of it, and then give it to my mom for her short weekly commute to the store.

 

[theaveng]

Doesn't look like there is a lot of activity from TX owners but I am getting close to the critical point where the Leaf with continuing range loss won't serve my basic commuting needs anymore.

Keep driving until the battery runs out. Then call Nissan to carry you & your car the rest of the way to work. Every day. They'll get the message quite fast: Don't false advertise a car as 96 to 110 miles* if it can't do the job.

*
*The piece of paper stuck to my local dealer's Leaf lists that as the range.

 

[FairwoodRed]

Which makes me worried, I do about 13000 miles per year and just like Phoenix owners I drive my LEAF 60-75 mph on daily commute. I still have all bars but unfortunately no access to anything that would measure GIDs (btw if anyone with such device plans to visit Ireland let me know), however it seems according to Nissan that I use car in almost worst possible way.

PM sent.

 

[mctca]

I started this thread with questions about what I might be doing wrong with the car.
I learned a lot from the discussion
I did not drive the car yesterday because of a 5" snow storm. Will be taking it out this AM.
Some additional info I can provide.
I do not charge the car everyday.
I wait until I am down to 2 or 3 bars or between 8 & 15 driving miles left
I always get a full charge (12 bars) using a Schneider EV charger
This occurs every 3 days. Real miles driven has been between 47-57 miles for each charge
I have driven about 1200 miles in the car. I have been checking for the last 700
I started checking because it seemed we weren't getting anything close to 70-100miles/charge.
For the last charge I have driven 36miles
The computer shows 6 bars remaining with a possible 55mile driving range.
If this pans out this will be a big improvement
We have not change driving habits for this charge
My average driving speed is in the 20's mph according to the computer
Based on what I learned in the forum the only change I made was to reset the Miles/Kw
Thanks for all your help, we are all still learning. It would be nice to make it work
NJ was cold this AM 28 going out now

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Huh? Did you mean to answer in http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10734" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;? Have you lost ANY capacity bars? Forget what the GOM says and its "possible 55mile driving range."

 

[mctca]

wrong topic

 

[surfingslovak]

Would it be possible to update the summary of hot climate issues? Perhaps it would be best to transfer it to the Wiki. I think this topic might be referenced in the media and elsewhere for some time to come. There is something related on the Wiki, which provides a thorough explanation, but having an executive summer might be a good idea.

 

[TonyWilliams]

April 10, 2013 - http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=222&content_id=CNBP_032579&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=59fb4e16-24a7-4200-b6ff-cf3bb98e1607" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"How long a battery pack lasts in an electric or hybrid vehicle depends on many factors. Mikael G. Cugnet, Ph.D, explained that the lifespan depends mainly on the battery’s temperature, state of charge and charge protocol. Battery performance begins to suffer as soon as the temperature climbs above 86 degrees Fahrenheit. “The higher the temperature, the lower the battery service life,” he said. “A temperature above 86 degrees F affects the battery pack performance instantly and even permanently if it lasts many months like in Middle East countries.”

 

[pointlomadave]

Forgive me for being a new Leaf owner and asking this question, but is the 86 degree a target for air temp while the car is being driven or charged, or apply to while it is parked as well (not assuming it is)? Should the windows be cracked and a window shade be used to keep in car temps down while parked or am I on the wrong wavelength here? I just leased our 2013 Leaf S 10 days ago, and have it set to charge at 80% during the week, and 100% on fridays when leaving the charging station at work.

And so I'm clear, the 2013 Leaf battery is not liquid cooled?
Also, have there been any software updates or revisions on the 2013's that differ from the orig Leafs? I know my Leaf is supposed to cut power output of the battery pack in higher temps. Was that the case with the orig Leaf in 2011?

We live in San Diego a mile from the beach. Commute in the morn is not a prob, daytime temps at work in summer are approx 80-88 degrees during the summer. By the 5 or 6pm commute even in summer, the temps should have dropped to at least the high 70's. =)