My Setec CHAdeMO Vehicle-to-Home Mods

[V2X]

Some time ago I ordered from China the Setec V2H device to pull power off my Leaf's CHAdeMO port. I paid a little extra to get the 6 kW @ 240V version rather than getting the 3 kW version @ 120V. Feeding this into 5 kW step-up/step-down transformer gives me plenty of power to run critical loads if the grid goes down. And being able to bring power out on the road is kinda cool too. With 240V AC output I can perform Level 2 charging anywhere.

When I first fired it up, the output was 220V @ 50 Hz, single phase - essentially what would be used in Europe. Customer support instructed me how to make an easy solder connection on a daughter board to modify this to 60 Hz. Then I adjusted a potentiometer to raise the voltage to 240V so that through the step-down the output is now just under 120V.

I really love the unit, but a serious flaw IMHO is that it relies on an internal battery to get going. There is no provision to start it with external 12V power (which, after all, the vehicle already has on hand, right?) So after letting it sit for a couple of months without use this battery was completely dead and wouldn't hold a charge. Its a really basic 12V 2.3Ah sealed lead acid type that can be bought online for $20. Hard to imagine this was the design for such a critical part of a $3k product ($4k after shipping and 25% tariffs). Oh well.

Drilling a couple of holes in the bottom of the unit allowed me to hook up a Battery Tender cable plug on the underside. It tucks neatly into the "foot" when not in use. With this I can periodically hook the Setec onto trickle-charge and also jump start it directly from the Leaf if all else fails.

When I have some time the next step will be to work with an electrician and get a critical loads panel wired up at the garage. Here in Utah I'm on an experimental EV rate plan at 3.3 cents / kWh off-peak. It wouldn't take too long to get the cost covered if I can automate things somehow to use the Leaf as my power source during peak hours.

Would love to hear if others have this product, and what your experiences have been.
[photos added Dec 9, 2021]

 

[knightmb]

The website does not list a price, but I am curious to what they charged you? I know plenty of people in my area that want something like this, but it's hard to find for them unfortunately.

[edit] It was in your original post, don't know how I missed that. :lol:

 

[Marktm]

Interesting stuff V2X! Nice list of "mods" required to make it useful in the US. It is surprising that Setec recommends modifying the daughter board, but I'm sure they are very interested in supporting the US market.

I've considered using a APC SURT 003 center tapped transformer with the 6kW unit to provide a home 240 vac split phase circuit - some type of subpanel arrangement with a manual transfer switch. Has ground fault detection been an issue when using it as a portable EV charger?

Some good information concerning the Setec units and how the've been applied:
https://www.evsiphon.com/home

 

[psalmon]

Nissan doesn't void the battery warranty if you do that...?

 

[knightmb]

Nissan doesn't void the battery warranty if you do that...?

How could they? Unless you go out of your way to make a video for them and then something bad happens that somehow gets past the safety system on the Leaf and damages the battery? Otherwise, a damaged QC station could void the warranty too?

 

[psalmon]

How could they?

If you take the car to a Nissan dealer for service and when they plug in their scanners, they see that current has been flowing in the "wrong" direction? Dunno if they do that, but it seems technically possible.

 

[knightmb]

How could they?

If you take the car to a Nissan dealer for service and when they plug in their scanners, they see that current has been flowing in the "wrong" direction? Dunno if they do that, but it seems technically possible.

That could still be the result of a damaged QC station. I don't recall anything in the warranty paperwork that mentions it, but I could be wrong?

 

[V2X]

Hey gang, sorry I haven't visited this post for a while.

I gave some thought to the warranty question before getting my Setec unit.

From the Warranty Booklet: This warranty does not cover damage, failures or corrosion resulting from or caused by… misuse, such as overloading, using the vehicle to tow, driving over curbs, or using the vehicle as a power source using equipment not authorized by Nissan for this purpose.

So how do we interpret this? For example, Nissan authorizes the vehicle as a 12V power source for charging cell phones & etc. A UL 2089 compatible female adapter is provided in the cabin for this purpose. We all connect all manner of UL 2089 compatible devices to it. No worries. So I would argue the same logic for equipment which meets the CHAdeMO standard in this instance too.

Besides, I bought my 2014 Leaf last year for under $10k. It was a California city fleet vehicle, had less than 6,000 miles on the odometer (yep, that's CA tax dollars hard at work), and full battery life bars. So battery warranty isn't something that keeps me up at night.

My understanding is that Nissan didn't provide a way to count V2X discharge sessions. It only counts CHAdeMO connections generally.

Very interesting idea, Marktm about the APC SURT 003 to split the European-style single phase 240 output of my Setec unit. It is considerably heavier and more expensive than the LiteFuze LT-5000 that I am using, but then again I can only run this output into a load whereas the UPC unit can wire directly into a critical loads panel to provide two legs. Will give this some consideration!

Also, can someone tell me how to post photos here?

 

[jlv]

Also, can someone tell me how to post photos here?

If you become a forum supporter, you can attach/upload images into your posts.

Alternately, you can upload them to some photo hosting site that allows 3rd party image referrals (imgur.com is popular) and use the IMG tag with the path to the JPG image there.

 

[Marktm]

Very interesting idea, Marktm about the APC SURT 003 to split the European-style single phase 240 output of my Setec unit. It is considerably heavier and more expensive than the LiteFuze LT-5000 that I am using, but then again I can only run this output into a load whereas the UPC unit can wire directly into a critical loads panel to provide two legs. Will give this some consideration!

Some questions;
- Is there any safety feature that shuts down the unit on low battery SOC of the Leaf?
- Does it appear quite easy to replace the start switch with a remote start unit (similar to a remote generator start kit)?
- Can you explain your rate plan - is it a simple two tiered rate of the energy costs - peak and off-peak? In Texas you can pay for the prevailing 15 minute energy cost via a monthly "subscription" rate of $10/month. This allows true energy arbitrage - but that's another complexity for sure.

Here in Houston, TX it would be possible to install a mini-split A/C unit that runs on 120 VAC that would "balance" the battery capacity of an older Leaf quite well on a daily basis. As a single user, it would be quite easy to set up a manual transfer of the mini-split from the Setec to a wall plug. Similarly switch the J-1772 from the Setec to the EVSE daily. This would be quite a "cludge", but would provide a reality check of actual electrical savings using the Leaf's SOC changes as the basis. I've considered a minisplit in my bedroom to have one air conditioned/heated room in an emergency - using my propane backup generator. Would have been really nice during the deep freeze early this year and the 2 week outage a few years ago due to a hurricane!

 

[V2X]

Great questions.

- Yes, I found somewhere a presentation by Nissan in Europe a number of years ago that the Leaf will terminate the CHAdeMO power output session once SOC reaches a specified percentage. With my 24 kWh Leaf this is around 32 miles of range left on the "guess-o-meter" out of 84 miles when fully charged. Now that I have LeafSpy Pro, I will run load up the Setec tonight with 3 kW of space heaters and then post here the actual SOC figure tomorrow.

- There are two start switches. The one on the side fires up the unit and is a simple toggle switch, so it should be no issue swapping this out for a remote start. The other is a Start button you depress to engage the CHAdeMO session. I can't see how that would be difficult to remote this too.

- The link below provides our temporary TOU rate plan for EV owners in Utah. I've sent a letter to our Public Service Commission to encourage them to extend this beyond the end of this year, as the pricing spread is so compelling. I opted for Rate Option 2 for maximum savings. I'm not comfortable running my central air with the Setec (start-up surge would probably be too much for it), but there have been times when I ran an extension cord into the laundry room near our garage for a little TOU arbitrage experiment for a few hours...

https://www.rockymountainpower.net/content/dam/pcorp/documents/en/rockymountainpower/rates-regulation/utah/rates/002E_Residential_Service_Electric_Vehicle_Time_of_Use_Pilot_Option_Temporary.pdf

We don't have many power outages here in Utah, but it's nice to know there is 24 kWh of energy available in my garage. At $9k it was a bargain compared to the similarly-priced 14 kWh Tesla Powerwall... and it can get groceries too.

 

[knightmb]

Great questions.

- Yes, I found somewhere a presentation by Nissan in Europe a number of years ago that the Leaf will terminate the CHAdeMO power output session once SOC reaches a specified percentage. With my 24 kWh Leaf this is around 32 miles of range left on the "guess-o-meter" out of 84 miles when fully charged. Now that I have LeafSpy Pro, I will run load up the Setec tonight with 3 kW of space heaters and then post here the actual SOC figure tomorrow.

I do remember reading about that too, I think it as around 30% SOC is when it will shutdown.

 

[Marktm]

V2X;
The on-peak hours would certainly allow you to make the most of what appears to be around 15 kWh per session. That would allow about a 3 kW load for the afternoon session and maybe 5 kW in the morning session (grosso-modo numbers!)

Since currently there is no way that I know of to safely add the Setec power directly to the grid power, having a separate user that you use twice a day could be a great way to test the robustness of the units - and ferret out any major issues for long term and emergency use. Supplementing A/C or heating might be feasible at least for the purpose of testing. Using the 240 VAC single phase directly is OK for most A/Cs, space heaters, water heating, dryers, ovens, cooktops, etc. if they don't have 120 VAC controls (NEMA 6 line of plugs).

Your peak cost savings could be in the thousands of dollars annually - wowl! The Texas "deal" would likely not be that good even with continuous energy arbitrage 24/7 - and that simply is not available in the US currently - and dcbel appears to be the only manufacturer that has plans to have a complete system - with "blackout".

I've done enough "cludges" with arduino systems that it would be quite easy to automate some of the "system" if auto-starts (remote) are all available. The one compete unknown to me is how to coordinate the Level 2 and CHAdeMO interchange for charging vrs discharging. Likely has to manual

As you are obviously aware, dealing with 240/120 VAC is very dangerous and requires constant rigor. Dealing with 400 VDC is deadly and destructive if let outside of it's "box" :mrgreen:

 

[LeftieBiker]

I do remember reading about that too, I think it as around 30% SOC is when it will shutdown.

I also remember 30%. It's possible that we are just remembering the SOC at which the battery warmer stops drawing from that pack. It may even be that there is a bit of software or hardware that controls both functions, and uses the same 30% for both.

 

[V2X]

OK, I started with a full charge and then loaded up the Setec last night with two 1.5 kW space heaters pulling power off the CHAdeMO port. LeafSpy indicated SOC at 95.4% with the HV Battery at 394.8 and 53.8 AHr remaining when I started.

After a few hours the garage was nice and toasty but by morning everything had shut down, with LeafSpy showing SOC at 33.7%, the HV Battery at 371.8, and 19.1 AHr remaining. The dashboard guess-o-meter showed 24 miles left. I waited until our off-peak started at 10 am and then jammed in just over 12 kWh to get the car back to full charge. The guess-o-meter was showing its typical 84 mile range indication.

So it seems that in the case of my 2014 Leaf, with nominal 24 kWh storage, Nissan has set the residual SOC to about 33% which, in a practical sense, means about half of the nameplate kWh can be pulled off the vehicle (again, I was able to put back in 12 kWh). I would really like to give this a whirl with a Leaf Plus to see if 30 kWh or more could be pulled off.

Marktm:
Yes, this experimental rate plan (3 cents / 33 cents) could be a serious win/win for me and the utility. If Rocky Mountain Power and the UT PUC decided to extend it then I would seriously consider putting some kind of automation into place, along with a critical loads panel, etc.

I asked Setec if it would be possible to have the output sync with home/grid power, but they declined to entertain it, saying this is simply a vehicle-to-load device. (The product name, however is "V2H" - go figure).

Also, Level 2 charging terminates once you plug in anything to the CHAdeMO port, making automating of charging & discharging a challenge - unless you are going all-out with a home fast-DC setup via CHAdeMO, I suppose.

 

[knightmb]

So it seems that in the case of my 2014 Leaf, with nominal 24 kWh storage, Nissan has set the residual SOC to about 33% which, in a practical sense, means about half of the nameplate kWh can be pulled off the vehicle (again, I was able to put back in 12 kWh). I would really like to give this a whirl with a Leaf Plus to see if 30 kWh or more could be pulled off.

I would volunteer mine if it is just a "what SOC does it stop" with like you did, run some high power loads to run it down in a linear fashion. I won't try to wire into to any utility service.

 

[Marktm]

OK, I started with a full charge and then loaded up the Setec last night with two 1.5 kW space heaters pulling power off the CHAdeMO port. LeafSpy indicated SOC at 95.4% with the HV Battery at 394.8 and 53.8 AHr remaining when I started.

After a few hours the garage was nice and toasty but by morning everything had shut down, with LeafSpy showing SOC at 33.7%, the HV Battery at 371.8, and 19.1 AHr remaining. The dashboard guess-o-meter showed 24 miles left. I waited until our off-peak started at 10 am and then jammed in just over 12 kWh to get the car back to full charge. The guess-o-meter was showing its typical 84 mile range indication.

So it seems that in the case of my 2014 Leaf, with nominal 24 kWh storage, Nissan has set the residual SOC to about 33% which, in a practical sense, means about half of the nameplate kWh can be pulled off the vehicle (again, I was able to put back in 12 kWh). I would really like to give this a whirl with a Leaf Plus to see if 30 kWh or more could be pulled off.

Marktm:
Yes, this experimental rate plan (3 cents / 33 cents) could be a serious win/win for me and the utility. If Rocky Mountain Power and the UT PUC decided to extend it then I would seriously consider putting some kind of automation into place, along with a critical loads panel, etc.

I asked Setec if it would be possible to have the output sync with home/grid power, but they declined to entertain it, saying this is simply a vehicle-to-load device. (The product name, however is "V2H" - go figure).

Also, Level 2 charging terminates once you plug in anything to the CHAdeMO port, making automating of charging & discharging a challenge - unless you are going all-out with a home fast-DC setup via CHAdeMO, I suppose.

V2X;
Not sure you would be aware of these postings - I sort of took this part off the main subject, but it appears you are in a postion to help. I've quoted the post here:

Re: How much power does it take to start a Leaf from the 12V Battery
EditReport this postQuote
Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:19 am

I'm hoping V2X will be able to give us some data.
- Overall energy efficiency when at various loads (V2L)
- When Setec unit is kept on, but no load, what is the idle load? What state does the leaf remain at?
- When Setec unit is shut down, but CHAdeMO is connected, what is the idle load - might change over time?
- Similar questions if the system is set up (safely) for V2H via the home panel, requiring a robust grid disconnect routine/system. IMO, this can possibly be done using a center tapped transformer on the Setec output (e.g. SURT003 or similar with NEMA L14-30R output).

 

[Dala]

So it seems that in the case of my 2014 Leaf, with nominal 24 kWh storage, Nissan has set the residual SOC to about 33% which, in a practical sense, means about half of the nameplate kWh can be pulled off the vehicle (again, I was able to put back in 12 kWh). I would really like to give this a whirl with a Leaf Plus to see if 30 kWh or more could be pulled off.

I would volunteer mine if it is just a "what SOC does it stop" with like you did, run some high power loads to run it down in a linear fashion. I won't try to wire into to any utility service.

Interesting, seems like Setec is not honoring the minimumSOC that is transmitted on the QC-CAN (MinimumBatteryDischargeLevel in message 0x200). For a standard 24kWh LEAF, the discharge should stop at 62%SOC.

Depending on your LEAF generation, they allow different amounts of discharge. Here's some data I've found for minimum SOC:
2013-2017 LEAF, 62%
2018+ LEAF, 7%
eNV200, 77%

By the way OP @V2X , would you be willing to log a V2X discharge session? We are looking for this in order to make the opensource CCS happen!

 

[V2X]

Hey gang,

This is becoming a very interesting thread.
I posted some photos on the opening post - take a look.

I was going to take some of the measurements requested by Marktm and Dala, but unfortunately the little internal 12V start-up battery has again completely failed. To reiterate what I stated in the OP, reliance on a $20 battery is a serious design flaw by Setec. So I ordered two more of them for good measure. Amazon estimates arrival by Dec 21st. If I have some time maybe I will hook up a 12V power supply to the Setec and then get this information out to you sooner.

Meanwhile, I will be installing an OpenVehicles OMVS system next week and will post my experience with it over on that thread.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I too am following this thread with interest. If I could "hack" a Setec unit by soldering one connection (I'd also go with an external battery, maybe an external 12 -13 volt LFP starting pack) to get 25kwh or more from a Leaf 40 or 62kwh in a power outage, the price of the Setec isn't prohibitive for us. I am so sick of dealing with generators and fossil fuels...