Need advice on home chargers

[jlm188]

I am about to lease a Leaf. I'm already overwhelmed with just the details of which car to get & whether to lease or buy. Now I have to figure out the charger!

I was going to use Aerovironment, but have heard that they charge high rates & that there are better options. I'm in the SF Bay area. Any tips/advice on how to get a home charger installed?

Two other questions:

I haven't made the final decision b/w the S and the SV. Any opinions on that?

If I get the car before I install the charger, how difficult is it to charge from just a regular outlet? I drive about 25-30 miles a day. (I can also use the chargers in the SF parking garage near my office). I ask this only b/c I need to know if the home charger has to be installed before I can get the new car (I'm really anxious for a new car!)

Thanks!!

 

[apvbguy]

I am about to lease a Leaf. I'm already overwhelmed with just the details of which car to get & whether to lease or buy. Now I have to figure out the charger!

I was going to use Aerovironment, but have heard that they charge high rates & that there are better options. I'm in the SF Bay area. Any tips/advice on how to get a home charger installed?

Two other questions:

I haven't made the final decision b/w the S and the SV. Any opinions on that?

If I get the car before I install the charger, how difficult is it to charge from just a regular outlet? I drive about 25-30 miles a day. (I can also use the chargers in the SF parking garage near my office). I ask this only b/c I need to know if the home charger has to be installed before I can get the new car (I'm really anxious for a new car!)

Thanks!!

first off do nothing until you get the car!
it is not difficult at all to use the trickle charger at home, however it can be very, very slow.
check out this option, which I am in the process of doing, which appears to be less expensive and gets the full charging time to around 4-5 hours
http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

welcome and good luck

 

[iamwjh]

+1 for the EVSE Upgrade.

 

[ksnogas2112]

JLM,
Thanks for including Bay Area in the text but it would be nice to put the location in the user profile. You can find a lot of answers to this question by searching but below are summaries

Options:

1. Trickle charge with the 110 - for 25-30 miles should be ok depends on your level of comfort with how long that can take (1 mile/10 minutes roughly)
2. 220 L2 devices, I personally use a Schneider/Square D device and have been pleased with it. There are several on the market available at both Home Depot, Lowes, and Amazon. I would not recommend the GE device.
3. Upgrade your Nissan/Panasonic device via evseupgrade.com and install a dryer outlet for your charging plug.

Definitely don't use Nissan's "service" for installation. Find a reputable local electrician to run the line and install the device if you're not skilled for this installation. I used the local electrician from the school my wife works at and he ran the line and installed the evse for $250 (Kansas pricing YMMV).

RE: S vs SV, that's really a personal decision. For 90% of my driving it wouldn't make a difference to me but the 10% that I do on the highway, the cruise control is really nice.

 

[Reddy]

Less than 40 mi/day is easy on L1. Here are some links and info:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635

 

[charlie1300]

I'm another of the many happy customers of Phil's evseupgrade. I also typically drive 15-25 miles a day. Could have done OK with L1 EVSE, but the L2 upgrade has been worthwhile on occasion. The installation is not rocket science, any qualfied electrician can do it. Get three quotes and go from there.

 

[Epi117]

I picked up a Aerovironment level 2 plug in charger on amazon.com, very ,very happy with it. Gives me peace of mind of being able to charge very quickly.

The Aerovironment web site had a $50 coupon, so you may want to check the web site out.

$50 discount here, http://www.avinc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cwerdna]

OP is looking for an EVSE, NOT a charger. For L1 and L2 charging, charger's in the car, under the hood.

1. Trickle charge with the 110 - for 25-30 miles should be ok depends on your level of comfort with how long that can take (1 mile/10 minutes roughly)

I've heard figures of about 4 miles per hour at 120 volts. 1 mile/10 minutes sounds too fast, in comparison.

I personally wouldn't buy the S due to lack of cruise control. I also would want the more efficient hybrid heater that comes w/the SV on up.

I also would want the 6.6 kW onboard charger (to take advantage of faster at home charging w/the appropriate EVSE and appropriate public charging station) and the CHAdeMO (DC fast charge) port. You can get this on the S w/the charge package.

None of these may matter to the OP...

 

[TimLee]

Buy the SV. The heat pump heater comes standard on the SV, is unavailable on the S.
I would never buy a LEAF again with the high energy consumption of the heat system on the 2011 LEAF / 2012 LEAF / 2013 LEAF S. Just TOO MUCH RANGE REDUCTION.
The OP may be in a warmer area than southeast Tennessee, but it does get cold sometimes. I went on a winter short vacation a couple years back, and the only place in the continental US that was half way warm was Miami!!! Buy the SV or the SL, not the S!!

 

[jlm188]

Can I just say, I love you guys!

I'm the "OP" (it took me a second or two to realize that..)

Re: the charger:

I'm getting the Quick Charge package on either the S or the SV. The dealer I'm working with doesn't get the S w/o the add on package.

I guess I'm going to buy the evse upgrade thing and have an electrician make sure that my outlet is 240Volts. Is there any reason to do something else? I assume that the evse upgrade charges at a slower rate than the charger aerovionment would install, but the evse upgrade website said they were pretty comparable. So, why would anyone do anything other than the evse upgrade?

Re: S or SV:

I was wondering about the heater thing. I've read something about the heater in the 2011/2012 models, but I don't really understand what everyone is talking about.

I live in Mill Valley, CA --right outside San Francisco. It doesn't usually get below 32 degrees, but I'm a San Diego native, so I'm cold when it's 50 degrees out.

I also really like cruise control.

So, I'm leaning towards the SV.

Thanks for all the information. This is kind of a daunting process!

 

[davewill]

... I was wondering about the heater thing. I've read something about the heater in the 2011/2012 models, but I don't really understand what everyone is talking about. ...

The heater in the '11 '12 and '13 "S" is kind of a pig. It uses a heating element to heat liquid which then circulates through a standard heater core. It heats up slow and draws lots of energy. It can cost you up to 25% of your range if you let it. The '13 SV and SL come with a new heater uses a heat pump, which should be much better in both regards. It still has the old heater as backup if the outside air temp gets too cold (frigid) for the heat pump to work well.

 

[planet4ever]

I guess I'm going to buy the evse upgrade thing and have an electrician make sure that my outlet is 240Volts. Is there any reason to do something else? I assume that the evse upgrade charges at a slower rate than the charger aerovionment would install, but the evse upgrade website said they were pretty comparable. So, why would anyone do anything other than the evse upgrade?

First, no one has a "charger" in their garage. For AC charging (120v or 240v) the charger is built into the car. For DC Quick Charge the charger costs $20,000 and up and is often bigger than a refrigerator. What you have in your garage is an EVSE. I had to clear that up because for 2013 LEAFs, except the S model without the Charging Package, the charger (in the car) is capable of pulling 6.6kW from the wall, or more specifically, from the EVSE. That is 27.5 amps at 240 volts. But it will not pull more amps than the EVSE (outside the car) tells it it can pull. If you get the S model without the Charging Package, or if you get a 2011 or 2012, the charger is limited to 16 amps.

The EVSEupgrade will let the charger pull 20 amps. Some other EVSEs oonly let chargers pull 16 amps, but most of them (including AeroEnvironment) will allow up to 30 amps. A few allow up to 32 amps or 40 amps. Anything more than 27.5 is useless to you, unless you get a different car with a faster charger (in the car, remember).

Bottom line: 27.5 amps is about 40% more than 20 amps. My guess is that the AeroVironment will charge about 45% faster than the EVSEupgrade, if you have the 6.6kW charger in the car.

Post bottom line: Many people will not care. 20 amps will charge your car in 5 hours or less. How long do you sleep?

Ray

 

[dgpcolorado]

... I was wondering about the heater thing. I've read something about the heater in the 2011/2012 models, but I don't really understand what everyone is talking about. ...

The heater in the '11 '12 and '13 "S" is kind of a pig. It uses a heating element to heat liquid which then circulates through a standard heater core. It heats up slow and draws lots of energy. It can cost you up to 25% of your range if you let it. The '13 SV and SL come with a new heater uses a heat pump, which should be much better in both regards. It still has the old heater as backup if the outside air temp gets too cold (frigid) for the heat pump to work well.

jlm188, One thing to consider is how far you drive. Since you say you drive 25 to 30 miles per day you could use the old style heater found in the S model and not be range-limited. The new heat pump heater, found on the SV and SL models, would be more efficient, so less electricity used, and the heat comes more quickly, but otherwise it ought not to affect your use pattern much since you aren't pushing the range going from Mill Valley to the City.

Regardless of which model LEAF you choose, be aware that you can preheat it while still plugged-in using the Climate Control timer. You may find when you get into a pre-warmed car that, along with the steering wheel and seat heater, you might not need to use the cabin heater at all, except for window defogging.

This gets back to your question about "chargers". Your commute is short enough that you can just use the 120 Volt "trickle-charge" EVSE supplied with the car. But pre-heating works better with a Level 2, 240 Volt EVSE, although it can be done at 120 Volts in your relatively mild climate.

Just some things to think about...

 

[mbender]

1. Trickle charge with the 110 - for 25-30 miles should be ok depends on your level of comfort with how long that can take (1 mile/10 minutes roughly)

I've heard figures of about 4 miles per hour at 120 volts. 1 mile/10 minutes sounds too fast, in comparison.
[...]

Incidentally, charging by any means is not delivered in "miles per hour" -- it is delivered in kilowatts, or "kilowatt-hours per hour". And how many miles one gets with those kilowatt-hours depends on all the usual factors. So if your level 1 charger delivers 12 Amps at 120 Volts, you will add 1.44kWh in one hour. Then, with that 1.44kWh, you will get anywhere from 4 to 10 miles, depending on how and where you drive, use of climate control, etc.

 

[planet4ever]

So if your level 1 charger delivers 12 Amps at 120 Volts, you will add 1.44kWh in one hour.

Sorry, nowhere close to that. The house and the EVSE can deliver up to 1.44 kW to the charger (in the car), but the charger will deliver less than 1.1 kW to the battery, because it and the cooling system together are only about 75% efficient at 120v. My rule of thumb is to assume that 120v charging gives you about 1 kWh of usable energy per hour of charging. This allows for some loss into and out of the battery.

So if you average 4 m/kWh on the meter, and the meter is accurate, then you can get 4 miles of driving for every hour of charging. No one gets 10 m/kWh unless you are driving down hill or with a strong tailwind. (Well, OK, LEAFfan might be able to, but he's the guy who drove 150 miles without recharging.) Many people get less than 4.0 on their m/kWh meter. I get less than 3.5 in the winter, and our winters are mild.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

1. Trickle charge with the 110 - for 25-30 miles should be ok depends on your level of comfort with how long that can take (1 mile/10 minutes roughly)

I've heard figures of about 4 miles per hour at 120 volts. 1 mile/10 minutes sounds too fast, in comparison.
[...]

Incidentally, charging by any means is not delivered in "miles per hour" -- it is delivered in kilowatts, or "kilowatt-hours per hour". And how many miles one gets with those kilowatt-hours depends on all the usual factors.

I know that. People are just using rough rules of thumb as to how many miles of range on a Leaf can be added by L1 charging.