New leaf out of service after one month!!!

[rw86347]

This last week in Colorado it was COLD!!!

No one in Colorado uses heat pump because they can't keep up when it is -20. However Nissan thought it could do better. Well this last week my heat pump was using 4 kw to heat the window. This burnt up the motor. When I took it into the dealer I was the fourth guy in my small town with a dead heater. They need to add heating elements for extreme cold.

They said it would take a month to get parts.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Did they tell you the motor burnt up?

The '13+ SL and SV heater's supposed to be a hybrid heater w/a PTC heating element portion as well. It's not heat pump only.

 

[Berlino]

The '13+ SL and SV heater's supposed to be a hybrid heater w/a PTC heating element portion as well. It's not heat pump only.

This is exactly what they are, hybrid. It's just that the PTC portion has a high rate of failure in MY13's.

 

[TimLee]

2011 PTC also had quite a few MNL reported failures too. 2013 failure rate might be about the same as 2011 :?

 

[dgpcolorado]

2011 PTC also had quite a few MNL reported failures too. 2013 failure rate might be about the same as 2011 :?

That's what I don't get: this is a known issue for the LEAF and they still haven't solved it for the 2013s? I wonder if the 2014s will also have a high PTC heater element failure rate?

I'm glad mine is still going strong after 2+ years. But I only use it about once a week in winter (for a carpool). Otherwise cabin heat is unnecessary around here except for brief defrosting of the inside of the windshield after being parked outside in very cold weather.

 

[epirali]

This last week in Colorado it was COLD!!!

No one in Colorado uses heat pump because they can't keep up when it is -20. However Nissan thought it could do better. Well this last week my heat pump was using 4 kw to heat the window. This burnt up the motor. When I took it into the dealer I was the fourth guy in my small town with a dead heater. They need to add heating elements for extreme cold.

They said it would take a month to get parts.

Actually it's a hybrid of heat pump and heating element. Below 32 the heat pump is off and it's heating element. Yours, like mine, has a bad heating element. The heat pump rarely pulls over 1.5kwhr and is much more efficient. So it was your heating element. Lots of them fail in S and SV/SLS.

From what dealer told me there is now a service bulletin if you take yours in.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Actually it's a hybrid of heat pump and heating element. Below 32 the heat pump is off and it's heating element.

No, not true. The heat pump runs below freezing, and supposedly contributes substantial heat down into the high single digits. I don't think it shuts down until the low single digits. There is a lot of misinformation floating around about it, especially the confusing of C and F temps, but also about when the heat pump stops working. I was mistaken about it myself, thinking (having read) that it stopped below 23F.

 

[jdunmyer]

Interesting thread:

I took delivery the day after Christmas, and it's been COLD ever since, many days only reaching single digit temps, and many nights near zero. As nearly all my trips are fairly short, between 10 and 25 miles round-trip, we run the heater full blast. Often with the seat and steering wheel heaters on also. I sure hope that the heater doesn't burn out.

FWIW: I'll throw in my $.02 on the steering wheel heater; I can't believe that Nissan can't come up with a better thermostat with less variation between "On and too hot" and "Off and cold". And, the seat should heat up faster, IMO.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Wish my steering wheel heater got too hot...at its warmest it feels great but spends a bit too much time cycled off for my tastes

 

[epirali]

Actually it's a hybrid of heat pump and heating element. Below 32 the heat pump is off and it's heating element.

No, not true. The heat pump runs below freezing, and supposedly contributes substantial heat down into the high single digits. I don't think it shuts down until the low single digits. There is a lot of misinformation floating around about it, especially the confusing of C and F temps, but also about when the heat pump stops working. I was mistaken about it myself, thinking (having read) that it stopped below 23F.

I can tell you from my experience that the heat pump will shut off quickly below 32. It works for a small period of tine, but without the resistive element it would stop. I knew this both from the loss of all heat, and from watching the power usage on the climate control go to zero.

My theory is that the test pump may start forming ice below 32 and once iced up will shut down. At 28 it would work for first 10-15 minutes.

Now with resistive element working it may go through defrost cycles abs continue, but I guarantee you it does NOT work without tie below 32F.

Btw I am an engineer and am pretty comfortable diagnosing what goes on in complex systems.

 

[RonDawg]

2011 PTC also had quite a few MNL reported failures too. 2013 failure rate might be about the same as 2011 :?

That's what I don't get: this is a known issue for the LEAF and they still haven't solved it for the 2013s? I wonder if the 2014s will also have a high PTC heater element failure rate?

Could be a supplier issue. 2011's had too many problems, so Nissan goes to another supplier for MY 2012. MY 2013 now built in the US for US/Canadian market, so they decide to go with a North American supplier rather than import the ones used for MY 2012, and that supplier too can't supply a decent unit.

If it was a design defect, you'd see this with the 2012's as well. I wonder if 2013's still built in Japan, and the EU models built in the UK, are having the same issue?

 

[jdunmyer]

I can tell you from my experience that the heat pump will shut off quickly below 32. It works for a small period of tine, but without the resistive element it would stop. I knew this both from the loss of all heat, and from watching the power usage on the climate control go to zero.

Where does the climate control display its power usage? This is probably so obvious, but I've not noticed it, nor seen it in the manual. I have a 2013 SV, if that makes a difference.

 

[epirali]

I can tell you from my experience that the heat pump will shut off quickly below 32. It works for a small period of tine, but without the resistive element it would stop. I knew this both from the loss of all heat, and from watching the power usage on the climate control go to zero.

Where does the climate control display its power usage? This is probably so obvious, but I've not noticed it, nor seen it in the manual. I have a 2013 SV, if that makes a difference.

It's under the energy usage screen.

 

[Berlino]

Could be a supplier issue. 2011's had too many problems, so Nissan goes to another supplier for MY 2012. MY 2013 now built in the US for US/Canadian market, so they decide to go with a North American supplier rather than import the ones used for MY 2012, and that supplier too can't supply a decent unit.

This seems like a reasonable explanation.

Whatever the case, Nissan is taking a beating on repair costs. The sole upside is that dealership service departments are having an opportunity to earn money on what should be a low-maintenance vehicle. Maybe this will make some of them hate EV's less.

It will be interesting to see if the issue has been corrected for MY14.

 

[voganni]

The heater unit is made by Nippon Denso as I recall reading. Toyota uses the same heater in the Rav 4 EV and they have also been plagued with heater failures.

As noted by another poster, there is a service bulletin and an upgraded unit, as well as separate parts available now.

My 2013 S still heats well (knock on wood!) and with many single digit days over here, it's getting well tested.

Now if someone could only fix the random parasite drain issue..........I re-opened my case with Nissan, since it has recurred again, twice. Whole 'nother story.

 

[evnow]

Someone posted this over at the i3 thread from the i3 forum. Looks like i3 has same issues too - and they take 2 weeks to diagnose and a month or more to get the parts.

My i3 wouldn't heat the interior anymore. After two (!) weeks of investigation the dealer found out that there is a failure in the high voltage distributor. Unfortunately a spare part is not available. BMW assumes that it will be available by the end of FEB. Then they need to build it in, which is quite complex because battery pack has to be removed, as well as the engine.
Dealer told me that I'm not the only one, in total they now have 3 cars with the same issue.
Not only the car is failing, BMW i customer service is poor as well. They fail to contact you pro-actively, don't talk about compensation and fail to deliver spare parts within reasonable timeframes.
So far: big fail....

 

[XeonPony]

As a mechanical refrigeration tech thats deals in revers cycle systems (Which this is, other wise it would be heat only with no cooling )

most systems will switch to ptc /nichrom at -15C due to rapid freeze up of the coil if in a humid environment, most will have a frost sensore to tell it when to switch to a defrost cycle and terminate on temp with a timer back up (This is your house type)

Now on the car I'd wager they would have don a simuler system, perhaps just omiting the timer, and just use a temp sensore for trigger and terminate. as you aproach the -20 mark the older R-22 systems drop off rapidly, the R-410a systems can manage mediocre efficiency at the -20c range but would still be using the resistive eliments to supliment.

do to size constraints and air flow veriability I'm going to bet that it disables the heat pump at -10c or sooner, at -25c the thing can barely keep warm with the ptc, at -30 it just takes the edge off but never heats.