New to me low mile 2017 with poor range?

[alozzy]

As I think about using leafspy and this consistent drive test - it seems like to really check the battery I would want to put it on a static load like a heater with 100% consistent load and just get stats all the way - see if anything weird happens with cells and just how much energy does it put out going from say 100 to 20 or 10..

No, just do a simple range test with the heater off. You can turn on the front defrost button, then turn off the heat and AC buttons, which will cause fresh air to come out of the top vent to keep the windshield clear. Cycle on/off the heat button, only if you have to.

 

[derbartman]

well - what I mean by 'heater' is like my 5000 watt garage heater. It would be most consistent to just sit in a garage and somewhat slowly but very consistently drain the battery - a drive as a load induces more variables - and if it were to get 100 miles or even just 60 miles - that takes a good chunk of time - especially if I end up needing to do that 3 or 4 times..

but Ill try to establish some consistent loops near by and get leafspy up and running and see where it takes us.

 

[SageBrush]

^^ None of that is needed, and it is NOT going to be an accurate load


Either
1. Drive and use the miles driven and kWh/mile reading for the test; or
2. Charge up at an EVSE like ChargePoint that will tell you how many kWh came out of the meter

This is not rocket science. Keep it simple

 

[derbartman]

The problem with driving is it takes time and isn't consistent (a track with cruise would be close - but wind and temp and most of us are not alone on a track)- but perhaps your point is its close enough - but spending 50 mins a day testing this car isn't what I had in mind when I bought it..

I bought leafspy - but it appears it isn't able to talk with either of my two OBD2 dongles (one blue tooth (go point) and one wifi ELM) so I don't have all the cool spy data

New info from today:

I drove mostly flat below 55 started with a trip to mall but then turned it into a long back and forth on a country road where I mostly could use cruise at about 51mph. It was 41 degrees outside - with minimal winds.

I drove 10 miles - and would capture the stats, reset the stats, and then do another 10. I didn't use the heater or AC was in ECO and B drive mode. The following is the results:

started basically 99%
at 10 miles 3.5m/kwh and SoC of 88% (so this seems decent down 11% with 10 miles)
10-20 miles 4.6m/kwh and a SoC of 79% (so this still seems good down 9% with 10 miles)
20-30 miles 4.5m/kwh and SoC of 61% (so this seems to double the consumption rate taking 18% for 10 miles)
30-40 miles 4.6m/kwh and SoC of 35% (again this seems bad 26% for 10 miles!)
40-50 miles 4.4 m/kwh and SoC of 19% (now 16% for 10 miles is way better than last 10)

and then I was nearing the end of the battery and was concerned I might end up with some whacky end to my trip to I headed home and didn't reset the stats after the 40-50 and ended the trip with the following:
40-55 miles 4.8 m/kwh and SoC of 14% (thus it appeared I got 5 miles out of 5 %!)

So at the end of it all it seems my 12 dot 30kwh battery went from 100 to 14% with 55 miles of ~50mph or less day time no heater miles. It tells me I averaged about 4.3 miles per kwh over those 55 miles - which I think means it thinks I used 12.7 kwh and yet it reports also an 85% loss of charge from a 30kwh battery. Even if we de-rate the battery to 86% since it could be about to lose a bar the battery would have 25.8kwh and thus 85% would be ~22 kwh.

So where is the extra 10kwh...

It seems that either the battery has much less capacity than it is supposed to or the m/kwh is way off..
So Ill keep getting more data - and Ill be trying to get leafspy to work so I can get the more detailed battery info..

 

[cwerdna]

I bought leafspy - but it appears it isn't able to talk with either of my two OBD2 dongles (one blue tooth (go point) and one wifi ELM) so I don't have all the cool spy data

What phone OS are you running? If you're on iOS, the iOS version will NOT work with regular Bluetooth dongles. It needs to be Bluetooth LE (Low Energy). The recommended Bluetooth LE dongle by the author (Turbo3) is LELink. He also doesn't recommend wi-fi dongles as they're too complicated to setup vs. the no setup needed Bluetooth LE dongles: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=525414#p525414.

LELink will also work on modern Android phones (ones that support Bluetooth LE).

 

[RaleighEV]

If you already have the dongle and app then try them one (or two) more times. I got a $16.99 WiFi dongle to work with iOS and Android.

Wifi gets a bad rap and the Leaf Spy Pro instructions are very detailed. Before you try all that, try this for wifi, IOS and Leaf Spy Pro...

Plug in the dongle, turn on the car
On your phone, select the dongle WiFi in settings
Open the Leaf Spy App and go into settings
Scroll down to System and click Register current SSID as OBD11 adapter
If you get a message about no internet click ok

For freebie Leaf Spy and WiFi and Android, just fiddle around a bit. You don’t need a password but I think you need to enter a blank one.

Take your time and remember the best troubleshooting advice there is... did ya try rebooting?

 

[alozzy]

Short version: 80% charge took you 50 miles.

Your pack range is about 65 miles, based on the route you picked, ambient temperature, and your driving. This suggests your 30 kWh pack isn't a true 12 (more like a 10 bar). This sort of range in winter would be decent for a 24 kWh pack...

FYI, you can use Leaf Spy to confirm that the BMS update was actually done:

https://youtu.be/H-Eq93RniJ8

I can't recall the version number for an updated 30 kWh pack, but post a screenshot here of the ECU version page (as per the instructions in the video) as someone here will know the updated firmware number.

Time will tell, but I would expect you'll drop a couple of capacity bars over the next few months as it really seems like your LEAF's BMS was reset

 

[alozzy]

Pretty sure the "HV battery" entry on the ECU version screen should be 4NP4C, if it's already been updated

 

[derbartman]

Thanks for the info on leafspy - I wish I had spent a bit more time on that earlier. I did just now (before reading your post) look for leafspy info and found a post with turbo3 explaining about setting the IP address in a wifi one -and that got me up and running. So I haven't used this while driving yet, but this first screen with the cell voltages was interesting right off the bat. This was while it was charging from the drive I described earlier.

https://ibb.co/St4YC0Z

In case something isnt right about the image post/paste it basically shows all the cells at very close to 3.87 except for one cell (#11) at 3.70 and is listed as a weak cell.

I hope this is the main source of my issue and that the dealer would replace this - but if this is a bad cell - why doesnt their own battery test they have to do each year call this out...

What do you guys think - is this likely a smoking gun of sorts?

 

[alozzy]

You might have just won the replacement pack lottery! You'll likely get a 40 kWh replacement pack.

You should show your Nissan dealership that Leafspy screenshot. If they won't properly investigate the low cell, then take it to a different dealership

 

[LeftieBiker]

That's definitely a bad cell, all right, but the dealership and Nissan will only use their CVLI test, not LeafSpy. Make sure the car is low-ish on charge when they do that. That will produce the maximum discrepancy.

 

[derbartman]

@alozzy :

looks like it is the 4NP4C in mine

https://ibb.co/vzGjBy3


@ RaleighEV
thanks for the tip on the 'register current SSID' thing

@ LeftieBiker
Im not sure what the CVLI test is and how that is going to complicate me getting them to take this seriously, but Ill look it up.

 

[cwerdna]

Im not sure what the CVLI test is and how that is going to complicate me getting them to take this seriously, but Ill look it up.

Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli.

I couldn't view the image at your URL and would hit an error until I right clicked on "Image" and select Reload Image. Yeah, that's definitely a bad module. There's no way 178 mV is normal for that level of start of charge. I wouldn't expect any more then 20ish to 30ish mV imbalance at that SoC.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=457982#p457982 was an example of another car with a bad module.

 

[derbartman]

this is the battery cell report this morning after trickle charge all night:
min/avg/max = 3.932 4.114 4.120 SOC = 97.7% 188mv delta AHr=69.33 SOH=87.23%

(below I am including the link first in this 'image' enclosure then in a URL enclosure and then just as text - not really sure which is right or which works best..)

https://ibb.co/k0xK2RV
https://ibb.co/k0xK2RV

 

[jlv]

(below I am including the link first in this 'image' enclosure then in a URL enclosure and then just as text - not really sure which is right or which works best..)
https://ibb.co/k0xK2RV

It won't work in an IMG as the link you give isn't an image -- it's a HTML page that has an image on it. The forum software auto-linkifies a plain URL, so the URL and the plain text show the same.
If you go to that URL and right click the image and select details, you'll see the image is actually at https://i.ibb.co/K7X6xMc/IMG-5877.png. You can put that in an IMG, and that will work as long as that web server allows deep linking to images. Some hosting services don't, as thwarts their ability to show ads.

Anyway, if I put that in an IMG it shows:

 

[SageBrush]

I drove 10 miles - and would capture the stats, reset the stats, and then do another 10. I didn't use the heater or AC was in ECO and B drive mode. The following is the results:

started basically 99%
at 10 miles 3.5m/kwh and SoC of 88% (so this seems decent down 11% with 10 miles)
10-20 miles 4.6m/kwh and a SoC of 79% (so this still seems good down 9% with 10 miles)
20-30 miles 4.5m/kwh and SoC of 61% (so this seems to double the consumption rate taking 18% for 10 miles)
30-40 miles 4.6m/kwh and SoC of 35% (again this seems bad 26% for 10 miles!)
40-50 miles 4.4 m/kwh and SoC of 19% (now 16% for 10 miles is way better than last 10)


I averaged about 4.3 miles per kwh over those 55 miles -

You are calculating the miles/kWh average incorrectly. But your approach can be much, much simpler:

0. Note the SoC
1. Reset the trip gauge
2. Drive for an hour or so. Any way you want. IT DOES NOT MATTER
3. Note the SoC. Subtract (3) from (0). This is the SoC used. Convert it to a decimal

4. Multiply miles driven by kWh/Mile for the trip. That will give you kWh used during the trip

5. Divide (4) by the SoC change. That is the calculated range in miles discharging a full battery

 

[SageBrush]

OP:
Grab a LeafSpy battery cell voltage histogram when the SoC is low, say 20 - 30%

A defective cell will chop off the bottom of your range.

 

[derbartman]

@Sagebrush - sure thing - Ill grab it when the wife is home from work - should be down to at least 35 from commute - and maybe ill drive it around a little too.
I tried to get leafspy running on a spare phone so I think Ill have a trip report from at least the way to work, and if lucky on the way home too.

 

[derbartman]

So I just got off the phone with the dealer I bought the leaf from. The service person claimed to not really have exposure to or knowledge about this type of issue. Told me the car is meant for driving in city not 50mph! I don't understand this sort of stance when they would benefit from either me paying for fixing or them getting a warranty replacement - but I hung in there and was persistent in asking what sort of tests they can do etc.. I mentioned this CVLI and she hadn't heard of that. So she went off to ask a tech - eventually came back and basically said they could do a test for $85 which would show the voltages but no results from such a test could trigger any warranty work. She said they had to have a code (or presumably the lost dots).
Does that fit with others understanding/experiences?

So basically if this battery has a troubled module which is somewhat significantly limited its function Nissan can avoid liability by simply having the algorithms in its own car not complain about it..
I hope that isn't really completely true and that if I got a hold of the right person etc. perhaps this could get moved forward.

I guess that means if the car eventually throughs a code and they scan the modules they might proceed with a conversation with Nissan - I fail to see why they would need to wait though - as in what is Nissan's real criteria.

 

[SageBrush]

OP: Where do you live ?
I ask because you really need a competent dealership.

A bad cell leads to a very characteristic behavior: the pack SoC goes from some low-ish value (e.g. somewhere between 10 -30%) to turtle mode over a short distance or when the pack is stressed from climbing a hill or the accelerator is floored. You can look forward to the astonished face of some hapless tech along for the test drive.