Nissan Electric Car is Coming, But Fast Enough?

[Cacti]

http://earth911.com/news/2010/05/21/nissan-electric-car-is-coming-but-fast-enough/

"The Nissan Leaf electric car has reported more than 17,000 pre-orders, and the first model isn’t even due out until December. But according to BusinessWeek, the company’s current production capacity will only be able to make 12,000 cars by March, meaning potential delivery delays."

 

[mwalsh]

Not new news to us. But it won't arrive fast enough for me....I've been waiting 10 years for this!

 

[javan]

I remember reading an article in a Sunday newspaper magazine in 1996 or 97 about hybrid technology from Toyota that eventually was sold as the Prius. My wife and I both wanted the electric car part of that technology to arrive quickly so that we could get away from fossil fuel use. Well finally the Leaf will get here and mass market electric vehicles will start to make a dent in our consumption patterns (and no I'm not discounting the RAV4ev or conversions). I am excited that it is getting close.

 

[Gonewild]

I remember reading an article in a Sunday newspaper magazine in 1996 or 97 about hybrid technology from Toyota that eventually was sold as the Prius. My wife and I both wanted the electric car part of that technology to arrive quickly so that we could get away from fossil fuel use. Well finally the Leaf will get here and mass market electric vehicles will start to make a dent in our consumption patterns (and no I'm not discounting the RAV4ev or conversions). I am excited that it is getting close.

I see you have solar panels. Why do you only have a 3.1k system that is not offsetting very much of your power is it?

I have a 5.16k Sunpower system, I wish I had more but electric company only rebate to a 5k system.

I am going to replace my 25 yrs old heat pump with a 14SEER this should help offset more power that can be used for charging the car.

 

[javan]

I see you have solar panels. Why do you only have a 3.1k system that is not offsetting very much of your power is it?

We actually have a very small electric footprint (due to house design among other factors) but I am not sure how the charging will work with the Leaf. We are offsetting all of our electrical use now, but will re-evaluate after we get our vehicle.

 

[Frank]

I have a 7.6kW PV system and when I was poking around on my electricity provider's website I noticed that they now have three optional EV Vehicle rate schedules. The rate schedules require a time-of-use meter and the midnight to 5 am time period has the lowest rate. Two of the rate schedules requires an additional meter (for the EV charging), and the third rate schedule can be used with both the vehicle and other home electricity use. All of the schedules require proof of registration of the EV. Our PV system presently produces about 90 percent of our annual electricity needs but it varies by month. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to switch to an EV rate schedule when we get an EV or is it better to stay on the standard tiered non time-of-use rate schedule.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

As I understand only about 1100 EV1's were ever produced, and 328 RAV 4's. If there are 12,000 Leafs on the road 10 months from now that will be impressive.

 

[solardude]

i have a PV system that produces 4x my usage, over the year. this was great until they changed the net metering rules and now any surplus i have in March is taken away. as a result, i have come up with creative ways to "burn" my surplus down during winter (mostly heating applications). The LEAF should fit into my situation perfectly. soon i can use my surplus to "fuel" my transportation needs.

 

[garygid]

It appears that many of those with Reservations (intention to maybe buy, definately, perhaps) in now will have to wait at least 3 or 4 months into 2011 to get their vehicle.

By then, assuning good reports in December 2010, it is quite possible that the first year's production will be completely "sold out", right?

It appears that only a "few" (maybe 5000?) will get LEAFs in 2010. If "we" are 1% of that group, then maybe 50 of us will be "LEAFed" this year.

 

[garygid]

If I get LEAFed, I will again be a net "user", instead of "eating" only my green electrons.

You know, the green ones just make you want more!

 

[evnow]

It appears that only a "few" (maybe 5000?) will get LEAFs in 2010. If "we" are 1% of that group, then maybe 50 of us will be "LEAFed" this year.

I'd say most of the people here would have booked earlier, perhaps on 20th itself.

Consider that the first 2 days had about 2,600 bookings - and that too all over the US. If you are in the initial rollout states (i.e. if you got the "good" email) and you booked within the first 2 days, you are virtually certain to get Leaf - IF that 5,000 December sales figure is correct.

 

[garygid]

If you are also in a "first-area" of the rollout state, and the EVProject buyers (if given priority) do not use up your "area's" allotment of LEAFs.

 

[planet4ever]

Our PV system presently produces about 90 percent of our annual electricity needs but it varies by month. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to switch to an EV rate schedule when we get an EV or is it better to stay on the standard tiered non time-of-use rate schedule.

What's this? You have a big PV system and you're on a standard rate schedule? Why, for heaven's sake? The (non-EV) time-of-day schedule I currently use lets me sell electricity to my utility for 30 cents/kWh in the afternoon and buy it back at night for 10 cents/kWh. I'm making 20 cents/kWh just by loaning my solar output to them for a few hours.

 

[garygid]

Here, with (SD G&E), untill recently, you did not get to keep the yearly net over-generation "credits", and the biggest loads (A/C) were typically daytime loads, at a very high rate on the TOD tariff.

It was not easy to figure out which rates were best. Now, they have many new rates to consider.

On the "Net" tariff, they appear to "credit" me for the 9¢ per kWh net over-generation, but actually charge me 13 to 33¢ per kWh (power plus "distribution") for net under-generation, on a month-by-month basis. Any extra credit at the end of the billing year gets "lost".

Now, a new tariff has them pay money for net over-generation but I do not know the details yet.

 

[Frank]

What's this? You have a big PV system and you're on a standard rate schedule? Why, for heaven's sake? The (non-EV) time-of-day schedule I currently use lets me sell electricity to my utility for 30 cents/kWh in the afternoon and buy it back at night for 10 cents/kWh. I'm making 20 cents/kWh just by loaning my solar output to them for a few hours.

I hear you. When I installed the system four years ago I thought it would be best to be on a time-of-use rate schedule for the obvious reasons you mentioned. But after studying the TOU rate schedule, talking with PV installers, and consulting with the Center for Sustainable Energy here in San Diego I was led to believe that the standard rate schedule would be the best. As garygid mentioned, it had to do with the different rates SDG&E would charge for purchasing ,and the rates used for credits when generating electricity at different times of the day. I'm going to take a closer look at the current TOU schedules to see if the situation has changed.

 

[Frank]

On the "Net" tariff, they appear to "credit" me for the 9¢ per kWh net over-generation, but actually charge me 13 to 33¢ per kWh (power plus "distribution") for net under-generation, on a month-by-month basis. Any extra credit at the end of the billing year gets "lost".

Now, a new tariff has them pay money for net over-generation but I do not know the details yet.

If you don't mind me asking, what rate schedule are you on now? This is the page I was looking at recently on the SDG&E website about the TOU rates for solar customers: http://www.sdge.com/nem/nemSolarRates.shtml

 

[Dav]

Frank,
SDG&E makes things, I believe intentionally, as difficult to understand as possible. Their 3rd TOU rate requires over $11 month fixed meter fee. Hard to recover that when the total bill is $30 month. TOU-2 at $3.75 is easier, but I still question why they are allowed a meter fee at all.

I was on TOU-2 for the RAV4-EV and never could decide if it wouldn't have been cheaper to just have the single whole-house single meter regular rate.

The trouble was those few times we used a lot of electricity... including the RAV would have hit their highest tier and very expensive electrons. Most months, TOU-2 cost more. The price difference is negligible - until those pesky, often unpredictable tiers are factored in.

This is one quote from their rates page: http://www.sdge.com/environment/cleantransportation/evRates.shtml

Typically customers begin seeing benefits of TOU pricing when consuming 500–600 or more kWh a month and they are able to charge their vehicle when off peak rates are in effect

I didn't use that much, so pretty sure TOU metering was a luxury, not a cost savings overall.

 

[Frank]

Frank,
SDG&E makes things, I believe intentionally, as difficult to understand as possible. Their 3rd TOU rate requires over $11 month fixed meter fee. Hard to recover that when the total bill is $30 month. TOU-2 at $3.75 is easier, but I still question why they are allowed a meter fee at all.

So when you were on the EV-TOU-2 rate schedule SDG&E charged you a meter fee of $3.75 per month? On this rate schedule you have one meter at your house that services all electricity use in your home right? On SDG&E's website I can't find any info on a fixed meter charge for this rate schedule. That would be important to know if a customer is thinking of switching to this schedule. Because I have solar I can also use the DR-SES rate schedule and it specifically says that there is no monthly time-of-use meter charge. See - http://www.sdge.com/nem/nemSolarRates.shtml But this schedule doesn't have the lower midnight to 5 am rate for EV charging like EV-TOU-2. I agree with you that it is difficult to understand what is the best rate schedule to be on.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i have a PV system that produces 4x my usage, over the year. this was great until they changed the net metering rules and now any surplus i have in March is taken away. as a result, i have come up with creative ways to "burn" my surplus down during winter (mostly heating applications). The LEAF should fit into my situation perfectly. soon i can use my surplus to "fuel" my transportation needs.

well i am glad u r doing something to prevent yourself from wasting electricity. i understand how frustrating it can be to have extra power sent back to the grid and not get anything for it, but your current solution is pathetic

 

[mwalsh]

but your current solution is pathetic

That's a bit harsh, don't you think?

I know in my current situation we bundle up in winter and/or burn some of our self-cut wood (tree trimmings, etc....) instead of running the heat. During the summer, we strip down (as much as modesty allows), go for frequent dips in the communal pool, and run ceiling fans to avoid running the AC too much. With a surplus of energy produced by a PV system, especially if we weren't being reimbursed for what we were putting back into the grid, I would not feel bad in the slightest for running the heat or AC more instead.