Nissan ESFLOW Electric Coupe Concept : The official Thread

[evnow]

At 180 kW - a 24kWh battery needs to discharge at less than 8C. Should be easy. Volt already uses more power.

BUT, batteries are usually optimized for either power or energy. BEVs obviously use batteries optimised for energy density. So, we don't really know the peak power output capability of the Leaf battery. The other issue could be heat. The larger power could heatup the battery a lot more requiring more complex thermal management.

Ofcourse, the battery won't need to put out 8C on a continuous basis.

 

[TRONZ]

More dot connecting.

I have noticed a new "group of dots" connecting the "electric sports car" the Emerge-E, Nissan/Infiniti and Lotus. This was from back in August regarding the EsFlow concept;

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/08/nissan-to-build-rear-wheel-drive-electric-powered-sports-car.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The ESFLOW concept which debuted at the Geneva auto show in March, firmly secured Nissan’s interest in an all-electric rear-wheel drive sports car. Sources have also revealed that Lotus is on-board to ensure sharp handling, a nimble chasis and lightweight construction."

And this is from yesterday regarding Emerge-E;

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/dissected-lotus-based-infiniti-emerg-e-sports-car-concept-feature?redirect=no" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"note the strong mechanical relationship between the Emerg-E and the Evora 414E Hybrid concept that debuted in Geneva two years ago. If you think of the Emerg-E as the Lotus 414E version 2.0, you won’t be far from the truth."

It is pretty clear that Lotus is now central to Nissans electric sports cars and a valuable "dot" to keep an eye on. With lightweight chassis already sourced from Mercedes and (now?) Lotus, we better keep track of unusually fast Nismo RC "mules" running multi motor setups. I would not put it past Nissan to hide these new EV powertrains right under our noses in plain sight.

 

[Boomer23]

"The ESFLOW concept which debuted at the Geneva auto show in March, firmly secured Nissan’s interest in an all-electric rear-wheel drive sports car. Sources have also revealed that Lotus is on-board to ensure sharp handling, a nimble chasis and lightweight construction."

We can but wish, TRONZ, we can but wish. As the saying goes: "From your mouth to ...." and I'll let you finish that saying per your personal belief system.

 

[JRP3]

From your mouth to Ghosn's ear :mrgreen:

 

[TRONZ]

Actually after watching several candid interviews with Ghosn, I am convinced the decision has already been made to pursue development of a very compact EV city car AND an electric sports car. The real issue now is just when will they actually be released???

The fact that Honda has begun its BEV concept explorations with a very compact sports car has not gone un-noticed by Nissan. Bancon has been very animated on this.

 

[gasmiser1]

From your mouth to Ghosn's ear :mrgreen:

-----------
+1 to that one :mrgreen:

Bring it on!

 

[TRONZ]

I do find it very encouraging that Nissan is still repeatedly rolling out the EsFlow at major auto shows. Now it's been shown in Beijing.

http://www.china-autoshow.com/2010bjx/en/ShowNews.asp?ID=179&ClassID=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is a little unusual for a "pure" concept to get shown more than once. Twice at most. However production intent cars do have a habit of being shown to target markets for extended periods of time. The fact that the same EsFlow (sans color) is being presented repeatedly is a good sign that the design work is already done. Nissan is comfortable and "No major tweaks needed" seems to be the message.

 

[gasmiser1]

Maybe we need a poll: -How many of us want to buy an ESFLOW at $40,000? (less EV state/fed rebates)
- " " " " " " " " " at $50,000? " " " " "
-How many of us would trade in the LEAF for the ESFLOW?
-Who might purchase the ESFLOW as a second EV addition to a two car family?
-Is a 150 mile range enough?
-Is an optional 200 mile range better (with added cost of battery pack)?
-What colors do people want?
-Optional leather seats?
-etc

Just thinking out loud.
I'm chomping at the bit to get an ESFLOW

Nissan---are you listening to us here in the USA?

 

[Drivesolo]

If Nissan could match (or beat) the performance of the current 370Z up to 100 mph, I would say that it could sell for 50% more than the Z; ~$45k. However it would have limited use for performance events other than a few autoX runs and/or a few runs down the 1/4-mile. W/ existing batteries it would probably not have much more than 100 miles of range, this means at track speeds range could be as little as 20 miles. Unless there will be some tracks w/ DCQC's, a track day would probably equate to just one session: 1 out lap - 3 or 4 hot laps - 1 cool down lap, then you'd be done for the day. For some performance enthusiasts willing to consider an EV, that could be a big negative mark against it.

 

[TRONZ]

I think the price of the Es would be very much compared to the BMW i3 due to the carbon/aluminum material selection. $45K is very reasonable for a Miata sized car with Corvette torque. This spec combination alone would blow away any other mass market sports car.

I always buy silver but blue would go nicely next to our silver LEAF. Yes, my 10yr old son wants our LEAF for his first car.

Leather please!

150 mile range (100 the way I drive) is just fine.

I am sure a car like this would indoctrinate alot of folks to track time. It would cost alot less to run in motor(s) maintenance alone. Nissan should donate some QC stations to the most popular tracks. Other drivers would be absolutely blown away at how cheap it is to charge up and run. More money left over for tires!

 

[Drivesolo]

^ I agree, I would love to see any EV at a track day. I've seen a Tesla Roadster at an autoX once and I've had my electric go kart out a couple of times but I don't think an HPDE at a track is suited for EVs w/ any less range than 200 miles, even w/ a DCQC present at the venue. Assuming the same range as the Leaf (claimed 100 miles), the driver would almost always have to leave the session early since the would not have enough charge to make it through the typical 20 minute session. At Pacific Raceways here in the Puget Sound where I've rolled in w/ a full tank and if the day goes out to 4 or more sessions, I have to refuel. I think the heat build up from constant rapid discharge and charging could be terrible for the EV's batt.

IDK if the savings in fuel and maintenance would see as a huge advantage. Provided that you're not breaking anything, the cost of tires is usually the most expensive cost of the day (excluding entry fee) for those running mostly stock cars. What I do think would grab interest is if the vehicle proves some distinct performance advantage over a comparable ICE. Most guys that regular participate at HPDEs are open minded when it comes to a car potential based on it's performance. The proof for them that will help to overcome any prejudices of EVs is if an EV can prove performance advantages over comparable ICEs. The Esflow (or whatever performance EV will come from Nissan based on a RWD platform) will have to prove faster in some respects to the current iteration of their Z-car, else it could be potentially seen as another niche vehicle.

 

[RedLeader]

... At Pacific Raceways here in the Puget Sound where I've rolled in w/ a full tank and if the day goes out to 4 or more sessions, I have to refuel. I think the heat build up from constant rapid discharge and charging could be terrible for the EV's batt....

It's that front straight if PR that drains your tank going into the Turn 1. It's nearly a mile of full throttle. I haven't been there yet this year but I believe that this will be the last season w/ the Turn 1 & 2 elements at the end of the front straight. The track will get slower as a result and be slightly shorter.

I've run through the possiblity of taking the Leaf out there but came to the same realization that you did about the Esflow if built to Nissan's existing 100 mile range target; it wouldn't be good for more than a handful of hot laps of PR. Also I would most likely lose what little respect that I have w/ friends. The Esflow will almost certainly have a significantly longer range. Any performance car today is expected to have a Nurburgring time, w/ the pit lane travel it is about 15.5 miles in total. A manufacture claimed 100 mile range may not be enough to put it one lap at 10/10th.

 

[Herm]

Folks, Nissan claims the range on the Leaf is 73 miles, as tested by the EPA

 

[TRONZ]

... At Pacific Raceways here in the Puget Sound where I've rolled in w/ a full tank and if the day goes out to 4 or more sessions, I have to refuel. I think the heat build up from constant rapid discharge and charging could be terrible for the EV's batt....

It's that front straight if PR that drains your tank going into the Turn 1. It's nearly a mile of full throttle. I haven't been there yet this year but I believe that this will be the last season w/ the Turn 1 & 2 elements at the end of the front straight. The track will get slower as a result and be slightly shorter.

I've run through the possiblity of taking the Leaf out there but came to the same realization that you did about the Esflow if built to Nissan's existing 100 mile range target; it wouldn't be good for more than a handful of hot laps of PR. Also I would most likely lose what little respect that I have w/ friends. The Esflow will almost certainly have a significantly longer range. Any performance car today is expected to have a Nurburgring time, w/ the pit lane travel it is about 15.5 miles in total. A manufacture claimed 100 mile range may not be enough to put it one lap at 10/10th.

Interesting question. I just told my son to boot up his LEAF in GT5 and do a 10/10th lap of "The Ring". He's on it! He thinks Endurance mode will give a charge status which we can take with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Drivesolo]

Interesting question. I just told my son to boot up his LEAF in GT5 and do a 10/10th lap of "The Ring". He's on it! He thinks Endurance mode will give a charge status which we can take with a huge grain of salt.

Now you got me thinking.... has a Leaf ever been on the Nordchleife in real life? If so, what was it's time?

 

[TRONZ]

11:37.853 and took 50% of the battery! This is the FULL 24 hour course not the short test course. He's trying a second lap to turtle.

 

[TRONZ]

Just finished a second lap in 11:35.972 and then went into Turtle apparently at 25:09 total time. So GT5 kills the LEAF in 25 minutes and at about 34 miles at race pace. Good for two full 10/10th laps around the Green Hell.

Just to be clear, his LEAF has weight reduction/suspension mods (good ) but is running an aero kit/spoiler and sticky race compound slicks (bad ) Half the turns he took at the full 93mph with no braking. The interior car view has a reasonably accurate GOM that is about as reliable as the real one. When it went to --- he had about 1/4 mile to Turtle. However GT5 does not leave you stranded and gives you unlimited Turtle mode range back to the pits. I am going to have him run one of his stock LEAFs for a lap time/range comparison.

 

[ztanos]

Does he have pictures? I would love to see this.

Just finished a second lap in 11:35.972 and then went into Turtle apparently at 25.09 total time. So GT5 kills the LEAF in 25 minutes and a tick past two 15.76 mile laps.

Just to be clear, his LEAF has weight reduction/suspension mods but is running an aero kit/spoiler and sticky race compound slicks. Half the turns he took at the full 93mph with no braking.

 

[TRONZ]

Here is a short thread on GT5 and a pic of his Atomic Orange LEAF.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7640&hilit=Gt5&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ztanos]

Ha ha ha ha ha... I guess I should read the entire post before I ask for pictures. I didn't realize this was for GT5, but it is no less awesome because of it.

Here is a short thread on GT5 and a pic of his Atomic Orange LEAF.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7640&hilit=Gt5&start=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;