Nissan LEAF Update from Andy Palmer

[JPWhite]

The only on site QC that I'm aware of is the factory in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Actually it's at the Franklin TN HQ, not the Smyrna TN Factory. It works great BTW. If they install these around the country everyone will be well pleased. Lot easier to operate than Blink DCFC.

 

[GeekEV]

You know, I am really getting tired of this "forthcoming news" crap, only to find the actual "news" underwhelming! If there is something to report, whomever should report it; otherwise just shut up until then! :x

Personally, I think this was a little uncalled for. While the results may not live up to everyone's wild imaginations, at least they're talking now and doing SOMETHING. Anything is better than nothing.

 

[Nubo]

Well the only way around the bureaucratic red tape in the short-term would be for Nissan to put QC on-site. Would be a brilliant move, imho. Building customer loyalty at the same time getting getting them to the showroom on a regular basis. Can't lose.

I presume you mean off-site; namely at privately owned Nissan dealerships.

The only on site QC that I'm aware of is the factory in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Cut it out.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Well the only way around the bureaucratic red tape in the short-term would be for Nissan to put QC on-site. Would be a brilliant move, imho. Building customer loyalty at the same time getting getting them to the showroom on a regular basis. Can't lose.

I presume you mean off-site; namely at privately owned Nissan dealerships.

The only on site QC that I'm aware of is the factory in Smyrna, Tennessee.

Cut it out.

Hey, I didn't make the laws that make dealers different than manufacturers in the USA !!!

Having said that, Nissan will have no greater luck with dealers taking on QC than anywhere else. The dealerships make money with oil burner cars. Pure and simple.

If, at some point in the future, EV are their "bread and butter", I'm sure they'll be VERY proactive on support for EVs.

If I were a dealer, I cannot imagine the business model that makes sense for me to have a QC on site. Could you rationalize selling XX % more cars to cover the costs? Probably not. Can you give up a dedicated parking spot that could have a oil burner sitting in it (that sells and makes money)?

In California, would the consumers pay enough for the service to cover just the demand chargers? If Nissan USA "forced" dealers to get these, I would imagine many dealers would opt out of being a LEAF dealer, pure and simple.

They can give away 400 CHAdeMOs in Euroland probably becasue they own the retail outlets there. In SoCal, they are subsidizing $10,000 per unit sold. Dealers aren't buying them, but we will have maybe a dozen or more operational at non-dealer locations next summer.

 

[Nubo]

Hey, I didn't make the laws that make dealers different than manufacturers in the USA !!!

Having said that, Nissan will have no greater luck with dealers taking on QC than anywhere else. The dealerships make money with oil burner cars. Pure and simple.

If, at some point in the future, EV are their "bread and butter", I'm sure they'll be VERY proactive on support for EVs.

If I were a dealer, I cannot imagine the business model that makes sense for me to have a QC on site. Could you rationalize selling XX % more cars to cover the costs? Probably not. Can you give up a dedicated parking spot that could have a oil burner sitting in it (that sells and makes money)?

In California, would the consumers pay enough for the service to cover just the demand chargers? If Nissan USA "forced" dealers to get these, I would imagine many dealers would opt out of being a LEAF dealer, pure and simple.

They can give away 400 CHAdeMOs in Euroland probably becasue they own the retail outlets there. In SoCal, they are subsidizing $10,000 per unit sold. Dealers aren't buying them, but we will have maybe a dozen or more operational at non-dealer locations next summer.

Dealers love incentives. They don't have to be forced, they just need attractive compensation. From a business perspective, I am contemplating the positive effect of having visitors at the dealership who are

- pleased at having a QC convenience provided via the Nissan network of dealerships
- Have 20 or 30 minutes to spend in the showroom either
a) singing the praises of the LEAF in earshot of prospective customers.
b) perusing other Nissan vehicles for possible purchase as their "other" car
c) taking a look at the new _(esflow, etc?)_____ electric car? The newest LEAF? (gain or retain customer)
d) educating, either by direct conversation or their mere presence, dealerships who may have been keeping LEAF at arms length

How many sales per year would it take to make up for "loss" of a parking space? Or, how many dollars in incentives?

 

[abasile]

If I were a dealer, I cannot imagine the business model that makes sense for me to have a QC on site. Could you rationalize selling XX % more cars to cover the costs? Probably not. Can you give up a dedicated parking spot that could have a oil burner sitting in it (that sells and makes money)?

In California, would the consumers pay enough for the service to cover just the demand chargers? If Nissan USA "forced" dealers to get these, I would imagine many dealers would opt out of being a LEAF dealer, pure and simple.

Dealers are unlikely to install QCs on their own, without subsidy. Assuming a "free" installation, the operational costs shouldn't be too high as long as demand charges can be avoided; please correct me if I am wrong. In California, this would likely necessitate operating each QC at 25 kW or less. As far as I know, running at 25 kW is working just fine in San Juan Capistrano, CA. As for parking spaces, many dealers are already giving up parking to support L2 charging - this should be no different. On the positive side, an on-site QC would be a real sales tool for a Leaf dealer.

 

[JPWhite]

If I were a dealer, I cannot imagine the business model that makes sense for me to have a QC on site. Could you rationalize selling XX % more cars to cover the costs? Probably not. Can you give up a dedicated parking spot that could have a oil burner sitting in it (that sells and makes money)?

In California, would the consumers pay enough for the service to cover just the demand chargers? If Nissan USA "forced" dealers to get these, I would imagine many dealers would opt out of being a LEAF dealer, pure and simple.

Dealers are unlikely to install QCs on their own, without subsidy. Assuming a "free" installation, the operational costs shouldn't be too high as long as demand charges can be avoided; please correct me if I am wrong. In California, this would likely necessitate operating each QC at 25 kW or less. As far as I know, running at 25 kW is working just fine in San Juan Capistrano, CA. As for parking spaces, many dealers are already giving up parking to support L2 charging - this should be no different. On the positive side, an on-site QC would be a real sales tool for a Leaf dealer.

I agree dealers wont do this of their own volition. What I'd like to see is Nissan installing several hundred of these units at EV friendly dealers on corporates ticket. Ie free to the dealer, they'd have to agree to give up some parking lot space and agree to give the electric away.

If Nissan install these quickly they could beat Tesla to a nationwide network of fast chargers.

 

[planet4ever]

Assuming a "free" installation, the operational costs shouldn't be too high as long as demand charges can be avoided; please correct me if I am wrong. In California, this would likely necessitate operating each QC at 25 kW or less.

OK, correction, I think. You forgot to say, "... and turning off all the lights in their sales lot and dealership." AFAIK demand charges apply to the utility account, not to the individual power consuming unit. They are probably already paying demand charges, but the QC would make the peak higher.

Ray

 

[abasile]

Assuming a "free" installation, the operational costs shouldn't be too high as long as demand charges can be avoided; please correct me if I am wrong. In California, this would likely necessitate operating each QC at 25 kW or less.

OK, correction, I think. You forgot to say, "... and turning off all the lights in their sales lot and dealership." AFAIK demand charges apply to the utility account, not to the individual power consuming unit. They are probably already paying demand charges, but the QC would make the peak higher.

If I understand correctly, the solution is to put the QC on a separate meter. I believe this was the approach at the Marriott in San Juan Capistrano.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Assuming a "free" installation, the operational costs shouldn't be too high as long as demand charges can be avoided; please correct me if I am wrong. In California, this would likely necessitate operating each QC at 25 kW or less.

OK, correction, I think. You forgot to say, "... and turning off all the lights in their sales lot and dealership." AFAIK demand charges apply to the utility account, not to the individual power consuming unit. They are probably already paying demand charges, but the QC would make the peak higher.

If I understand correctly, the solution is to put the QC on a separate meter. I believe this was the approach at the Marriott in San Juan Capistrano.

I'm loathe to make this another quick charge thread, but no, that's not how it was done.

If a dealer is pulling 19.90kW peak every month (completely made up), then they don't pay a demand fee at virtually every California utility. When you add 55kW from a QC on top of that, they will pay big. Even at 25kW, they'll pay that, too.

All the talk about how "easy" it is to accept a quick charger for "free" is just that, talk. If Nissan USA agrees to their own meter and pays all fees to the utility, covers the insurance, and provides the QC for free, with the dealer supplying a parking spot for XX years, maybe dealers would go for it. But, there may be laws against the manufacturer doing that. I doubt Nissan USA would do this at all.

Nissan did blather about 100 DC chargers in San Francisco at National Plug In Day Sept 24, 2012. I'll be happy to bet you how many of those show up and further bet how many dealers get them.

Finally, my desire to hang out at a car dealership for my transportation energy needs is low. Extremely low.

 

[TomT]

Who knows if they are actually doing anything and what it might be since this is just another feel-good rumor! If there is something to report, report it. If not for the moment, then simply wait and say nothing until you can. As much as I dislike Apple, they DO have this part right! So, I believe it absolutely is called for.

You know, I am really getting tired of this "forthcoming news" crap, only to find the actual "news" underwhelming! If there is something to report, whomever should report it; otherwise just shut up until then! :x

Personally, I think this was a little uncalled for. While the results may not live up to everyone's wild imaginations, at least they're talking now and doing SOMETHING. Anything is better than nothing.

 

[abasile]

All the talk about how "easy" it is to accept a quick charger for "free" is just that, talk.

Considering that talk of possibly supporting QC installations seems to be continuing to come from Nissan USA, I remain hopeful. Even a few Nissan-sponsored QCs would be good. Unfortunately, your pessimism is well founded and based on substantial experience.

Finally, my desire to hang out at a car dealership for my transportation energy needs is low. Extremely low.

I agree that QC'ing at a Starbucks (or an Apple store!) would be nicer. But at least dealerships are generally safe, have clean restrooms, offer wifi, and tend to be convenient to freeways and other amenities. To me that's more attractive than most convenience stores, for instance.

 

[evnow]

I agree that QC'ing at a Starbucks (or an Apple store!) would be nicer. But at least dealerships are generally safe, have clean restrooms, offer wifi, and tend to be convenient to freeways and other amenities. To me that's more attractive than most convenience stores, for instance.

*$s doesn't want to put in chargers, someone who should know told me. They want quick turnover of people. Not sure what their power requirements are and whether QC would substantially alter that.

What we need first is regulatory changes to make QC not expensive to power.

 

[TonyWilliams]

All the talk about how "easy" it is to accept a quick charger for "free" is just that, talk.

Considering that talk of possibly supporting QC installations seems to be continuing to come from Nissan USA, I remain hopeful. Even a few Nissan-sponsored QCs would be good. Unfortunately, your pessimism is well founded and based on substantial experience.

Well, Nissan is talking and making moves. $10,000 subsidy on their charger is real... but the price of the charger is now $25,000 with all the bells and whistles.

Remember the previous advertised prices? Does it remind you of 142 mile range LEAFs, or 30% "all is normal" battery degradation?

 

[toasty]

does this cover used cars too?

 

[surfingslovak]

does this cover used cars too?

Yes, the coverage will likely apply to the car itself, independent of the owner, much like any manufacturer warranty.

There is one more question, which came in from the Tesla forum. Folks are wondering why the length of the capacity warranty does not match the length of the limited power output battery warranty, and whether these should be in alignment.

Yes, they hear "8 year warranty" as in the 8 year battery defect warranty all EVs have and assume it covers capacity (when it clearly doesn't if you look into the details).

But now Nissan is offering a separate shorter 5 year/60k mile capacity warranty (to 66.24% capacity). My question is if people will assume that's the average case degradation of battery capacity (certainly the anti-EV people will try to make that point). If they came out with a capacity warranty that was the same length as the defect warranty (8 years/100k miles) I would have no question it won't be bad/detrimental in a PR sense, but of course they can't practically do that.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

does this cover used cars too?

generally speaking, any warranty that remains transfers to new owners... so ya, the answer should be "yes"

 

[TonyWilliams]

The 16kWh-ish battery in the Volt costs:

$2499 or $2999 for a new battery

 

[scottf200]

The 16kWh-ish battery in the Volt costs: $2499 or $2999 for a new battery

Corresponding google search for battery+part number: https://www.google.com/search?&q=20979876+battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"BATTERY. Drive Motor Battery."
$2,994.64 - http://www.tonkinonlineparts.com/p/Chevrolet__/BATTERY-Drive-Motor-Battery/6424745/20979876.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
$2,994.64 - http://parts.nalleygmc.com/products/BATTERY-Drive-Motor-Battery/2949468/20979876.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
$2,594.74 - http://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm-battery-20979876.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
$2,410.69 - http://www.parts.com/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/VOLT/?siteid=2&vehicleid=1447713&section=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&group=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&subgroup=BATTERY&component=BATTERY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TickTock]

I plan to attend, but in case I am unable I would like someone to ask about plans to sell "Leaf to Home" in the US.