Nissan To Install 500 More Quick Charge Stations

[TomT]

:lol: Yep, they just don't get it! At all!

Yes, because it's the people who live closest to the dealer (and likely purchased there) who most need a QC...

 

[KJD]

Go back and read my post again Dave. I said I was fine with paying for the electricity.

I am NOT OK with Dealers not allowing all LEAFs to use the charger.

ok, my bad. I read it to say the it was free to customers and a cost to others

it is becoming apparent that the rollout is not going as Nissan had hoped. the "24/7" goal is not being achieved and the "open availability to ALL EVs" (including MiEVs) appears to be another challenge as well

Yes I agree that this rollout is not going well. 24x7 is an important aspect that is being ignored. Availability to all is a MUST have feature.

As a member of the advisory group, you should take this up with the powers that be at Nissan Corporate.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Nissan needs to stomp on this BS now, and hard!!! As was mentioned, Nissan paid for it. I can see a SMALL charge to cover the cost of the electricity but that is it!

I also know that Downtown L.A. Nissan plans to visit possibly charging for their QC after the 90 day get-acquainted period is over... And, as with most, it is not available 24/7, though it IS available for a wider time period than many. Can you just imagine the outcry if all gas station closed in the early evening...

The good news: Fast charging at Glendale Nissan as I type this (using dealer wi-fi).

The BAD news. Unit requires a key, and the salesman who got it and unlocked the unit for my use mentioned in passing that they are extending the privilege only to drivers who bought or leased their LEAFs from Glendale Nissan. Pointed to the cost of charging for this policy.

Some folks at Nissan corporate must be wishing, or will be soon, that LEAFs could be sold, like Tesla, independently of the dealership network, which so often seems to do more harm than good.

Soooooo stupid.....

this is a major issue. Last two charging sessions at Fife was at 1 am and 3:30 AM. I would have been SEVERELY screwed if I had to resort to other options...

 

[DaveEV]

The BAD news. Unit requires a key, and the salesman who got it and unlocked the unit for my use mentioned in passing that they are extending the privilege only to drivers who bought or leased their LEAFs from Glendale Nissan. Pointed to the cost of charging for this policy. Soooooo stupid.....

Nissan needs to stomp on this BS now, and hard!!! As was mentioned, Nissan paid for it. I can see a SMALL charge to cover the cost of the electricity but that is it!

The crazy thing about the policy is that if they are on a typical commercial utility fee schedule with demand fees, once they charge one car in a billing period, each additional charge only adds a trivial amount to their bill for the period.

Example, say they have $10/kW demand fee (could easily be 2-2.5x more depending on utility) and energy costs $0.06 / kWh, a single charge per billing period will cost them $500 + $0.90 (assuming that a charge takes 15 kWh) for a grand total of $500.90 / for one charge / billing period.

But each additional charge that billing period will only cost them $0.90, so the 2nd charge effectively cuts the per-charge rate in half down to $250.90 / charge / billing period.

If you want to break even charging say $5 / charge, you need ~125 charges / month (did not calculate this exactly, but 125 charges will cost them $612.50 / month or $4.90 / charge).

 

[JeremyW]

Glendale has been a mixed bag. My guess is that they intend to charge money to those who didn't buy their leaf there, but for those who do the QC is free.

I will stop by on Monday to see what the manager says. The sales people don't know much or might have incorrect information. I'll also point out the very important point that you all are mentioning about the demand fees. It's in their best interest to let anyone charge (for a small fee). They won't leave money on the table!

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I agree. I think dealers charging a reasonable fee is ok for those who didn't buy their car there.

Reasonable to me would be not much more (preferably less) than the equivalent cost of fueling a Prius to go the same distance as provided by the QC. Hopefully that fee is enough to cover the cost of electricity and demand charges for the dealer. It would keep people from being a freeloading opportunist like at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=240056#p240056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Perhaps Nissan should also install some PV at the dealers where electricity and demand chargers are high, to help offset the usage of the QC.

 

[JPVLeaf]

An update on Tustin Nissan, which I visited today ....

According to one of the sales mgrs, the QC is expected to be installed within 60 days.
It will be available 24/7, and for no fee (at least, initially).

The mgr said that the DCQC itself was gratis from Nissan, but the dealer will have
to cover the cost of the inverter and its installation (min $20k+).

30 Auto Center Dr Tustin, CA 92782

I sent an email to the guys at Tustin Nissan (Orange County, CA) and they said they expect to get a Quick Charger - but they didn't have any details on the timing.

... Frank at Tustin Nissan ... said they had an initial site evaluation and expect to get one. I suppose by March 31 as had been mentioned earlier for the SoCal Nissan dealerships...

 

[cwerdna]

An update on Tustin Nissan, which I visited today.
...
The mgr said that the DCQC itself was gratis from Nissan, but the dealer will have to cover the cost of the inverter and its installation (min $20k+).

Ouch! Inverter? $20K+ Yowza. If I ran a car dealer, I'd balk at paying $20K+ and then providing free charging. Even for a fee, that would take some time to make back up.

 

[JPVLeaf]

An update on Tustin Nissan, which I visited today.
...
The mgr said that the DCQC itself was gratis from Nissan, but the dealer will have to cover the cost of the inverter and its installation (min $20k+).

Ouch! Inverter? $20K+ Yowza. If I ran a car dealer, I'd balk at paying $20K+ and then providing free charging. Even for a fee, that would take some time to make back up.

Large portion of that was for installation costs ... running new powerline to site, etc. .... Some may even be mitigated since they will be doing other construction on-site. Not sure how this can get this all done in the quoted 60-day time frame.

 

[TonyWilliams]

^^^
I agree. I think dealers charging a reasonable fee is ok for those who didn't buy their car there.

Reasonable to me would be not much more (preferably less) than the equivalent cost of fueling a Prius to go the same distance as provided by the QC.

Really? Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) ?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

are we using this thread for new station reports? if so, I submit Younker Nissan, 3401 E Valley Rd, Renton, WA

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/570792816285493/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

equipment is in the ground but not turned on yet.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I agree. I think dealers charging a reasonable fee is ok for those who didn't buy their car there.

Reasonable to me would be not much more (preferably less) than the equivalent cost of fueling a Prius to go the same distance as provided by the QC.

Really? Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) ?

For me (and I'm sure many others, esp. those who don't currently own BEVs), it's all a matter of time, value, money.

Whenever I finally get a BEV (likely a Leaf or Rav4 EV), me wanting to take it on trips where I have to stop to charge depends on many factors (e.g. convenience, am I willing to spend the time to charge, is the charger/EVSE located near where I have to stop anyway, cost, reliability, availability, etc.) and who (if anyone) is with me. I'm not hardcore to the point where I will limit my mobility due to a BEVs range or almost always take the BEV, even if it's really inconvenient.

I wouldn't want it to cost much more than taking my Prius, which I plan to keep as my "range extender". Maybe I might sell it and replace it w/a newer Prius, a PiP, a HyCam or maybe a non-hybrid like the "Toyobaru" FR-S/BRZ but it's still going to boil down to those factors.

I'd love charging to be free, but that's not sustainable and the $ for that (electricity, installation, repairs, etc.) has to come from somewhere...

 

[TonyWilliams]

^^^
I agree. I think dealers charging a reasonable fee is ok for those who didn't buy their car there.

Reasonable to me would be not much more (preferably less) than the equivalent cost of fueling a Prius to go the same distance as provided by the QC.

Really? Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) ?

I'd love charging to be free, but that's not sustainable and the $ for that (electricity, installation, repairs, etc.) has to come from somewhere...

It has to come from somewhere, just not you?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

It has to come from somewhere, just not you?

Really, Tony? You even quoted him saying that he thinks charging a fee is reasonable....

 

[DaveEV]

It has to come from somewhere, just not you?

Really, Tony? You even quoted him saying that he thinks charging a fee is reasonable....

Tony is referring to cwerdna's comment that public charging has to be cheaper than driving the Prius, otherwise he'll just take the Prius instead.

Just as an example, the Prius costs about $0.09/mi at $4.00/gal and 45 mpg.

Assuming that your LEAF gets 3.4 mi/kWh from the wall (4.0 mi/kWh on the dash - charging losses), to beat $0.09/mi or about $0.30 / kWh.

For an hourly rate charging at 3.8 kW (240V/16A), that is $1.15/hr. Adjust the rate accordingly depending on charge rate, but what this effectively means is that unless you can charge in public at about $1/hr or less, it's cheaper to drive the Prius, unless you can charge at 30A in which case it's cheaper to drive the Prius if it costs more than $2/hr.

Now, let's look at DCQC. A typical QC might be 12 kWh (at least the QCs I've done were in that ballpark according to the Blink records from a bit above LBW to 80%). If you want to drive the LEAF, it can't cost more than $3.60 for that charge.

I challenge you to find anyone who is charging for QC anywhere near that price - it simply can't be done and still remain in business, even with subsidies. The going rate will be about double that price - $5-7 for 30 minutes on the charger.

But all this discussion about what's cheaper to fuel when public charging misses the point.

There are tons of reasons to "Just-drive-the-LEAF" instead of the Prius even when the trip requires public charging.

1. Including only the incremental cost of charging ignores the fact that you very likely charged at home for the equivalent of $0.04/mi or less - let's say you take an 90 mile trip which requires one public charge to get home and half the miles are done on electricity from home, the other half is done on public charging. To drive the Prius, this would cost you $8 in fuel. 45 miles on home electricity at $0.14/kWh could cost about $1.85 meaning that the public charge could cost up to $6.14 and it'd still be cheaper to drive the LEAF, much higher than the $4.00 you might calculate if only looking at the incremental per-mile cost instead of averaging.
2. The LEAF is nearly always cleaner than the Prius in terms of emissions - no doubt you bought the LEAF at least partially for environmental reasons? I don't know about you, but I really like clean air, water and land and really dislike hydrocarbon pollution so anything I can do to minimize that has great value to me.
3. The LEAF is much more enjoyable to drive than the Prius.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point and will get off my soapbox now and back to our on-topic discussion...

I submit Younker Nissan, 3401 E Valley Rd, Renton, WA, equipment is in the ground but not turned on yet.

Thanks, added to the map.

 

[TomT]

The absurdity of this is that the people who bought the cars from the dealer are likely to live somewhere nearby. Thus, they will not need the QC since they will be charging at home except on rare occasions...

I agree. I think dealers charging a reasonable fee is ok for those who didn't buy their car there.

 

[DaveEV]

The absurdity of this is that the people who bought the cars from the dealer are likely to live somewhere nearby. Thus, they will not need the QC since they will be charging at home except on rare occasions...

Definitely - getting a potential customer on site for 20-30 minutes with nothing else to do seems like cheap advertising to me...

 

[Randy3]

The absurdity of this is that the people who bought the cars from the dealer are likely to live somewhere nearby. Thus, they will not need the QC since they will be charging at home except on rare occasions...

Definitely - getting a potential customer on site for 20-30 minutes with nothing else to do seems like cheap advertising to me...

Exactly! Local dealers want to give me hot dogs, soft drinks, tote bags, and trinkets just to visit them and maybe walk around their lot.

 

[tbleakne]

The good news: Fast charging at Glendale Nissan as I type this (using dealer wi-fi).
The BAD news. Unit requires a key, and the salesman who got it and unlocked the unit for my use mentioned in passing that they are extending the privilege only to drivers who bought or leased their LEAFs from Glendale Nissan. Pointed to the cost of charging for this policy.

I am fine with paying a small fee for the electricity, but Nissan corporate paid for the Charge station not the dealer. If Nissan lets the dealers get away with this kind of crap, my next EV will be a Tesla.

++1.

I imagine Glendale Nissan doesn't have a clue how important these QC are becoming to the LEAF community. As our battery capacity starts dropping again in the warmer weather, more of us who want to go cross town will need these stations. And like Gregh says, they don't realize that their local customers are the least likely to need it.

Glendale has their own municipal electric utility. I see from
http://www.theevproject.com/downloa...-Demand Charge Reduction V1.0 Revised (2).pdf
a demand charge of $.32/kW Summer, $.22/kW Winter. That is really cheap. The dealership will never notice the difference. SCE charges $12/kW Winter, $12+$17=$29/kW weekday Summer.

 

[OttoH]

I have started a new topic for Florida DCQCs as those probably doesn't interest the rest of the country all that much.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;