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adric22

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
2,488
Location
Fort Worth, TX
I was showing somebody the Nissan website two days ago and the information there was still for the 2012 model. I noticed today that they have updated and are now showing the 2013 model and correct pricing for that. One of the things I was curious about was if they were still touting "100 miles range" but I can find no mention of range anywhere on the website. If you click the specs section it lists range but it shows "130/102 mpge" which is not a range estimate, rather an efficiency rating.. so they have screwed up somewhere.
 
Yeah, someone at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=264810#p264810" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; noticed the change over 12 hours ago. When I last looked earlier today, I also couldn't find a range, only those useless mpge figures.

Not sure what's up with that.
 
adric22 said:
If you click the specs section it lists range but it shows "130/102 mpge" which is not a range estimate, rather an efficiency rating.. so they have screwed up somewhere.
I'm not sure those numbers are completely useless. Compare the 2013 MPGe numbers of 130/102/117 withe those of the 2011/2012 which were 106/92/99. So the combined efficiency is 17% higher! Does this imply a similarly higher EPA range estimate?
 
RegGuheert said:
adric22 said:
If you click the specs section it lists range but it shows "130/102 mpge" which is not a range estimate, rather an efficiency rating.. so they have screwed up somewhere.
I'm not sure those numbers are completely useless. Compare the 2013 MPGe numbers of 130/102/117 withe those of the 2011/2012 which were 106/92/99. So the combined efficiency is 17% higher! Does this imply a similarly higher EPA range estimate?

Assuming the same percentage of the same total battery capacity is available, and less any charging efficiency improvement reflected in the MPGe numbers, yes it does.

With deliveries supposed to be starting any week now, we should at least know the EPA sticker range estimate pretty soon.
 
edatoakrun said:
Assuming the same percentage of the same total battery capacity is available, and less any charging efficiency improvement reflected in the MPGe numbers, yes it does.
Yeah, some of that is likely in improved charging efficiency (lower pump draw due to shorter pump loop). That could account for much of the 10% improvement in the highway number, but the city number is 22% higher! Some of that is likely real improvement. It appears Nissan has been busy these past two years!

BTW, since Nissan loves to talk about LA4 range, the higher increase in city efficiency will favor that number. Let's hope they start to focus on the EPA range in the US going forward.
 
I think its all due to charger improvements.. the new motor is supposed to be more efficient but I think its only available in Japan... then you have the battery chemistry tweaks.
 
Herm said:
I think its all due to charger improvements..
It is not possible for the city efficiency to improve 22.6% and the highway efficiency to improve 10.9% solely due to an efficiency improvement in the charging system.
Herm said:
the new motor is supposed to be more efficient but I think its only available in Japan...
I'm not sure why you would think that. When they designed the new "stack", I seriously doubt they made a different design for the motor in the U.S. stack than the one in the Japanese stack.

I suspect the bulk of the efficiency improvements in the city number is due to weight reduction, heat pump, motor improvements and reduction in wiring resistive losses.

It will be interesting to see what the EPA range number turns out to be.
 
RegGuheert said:
Herm said:
I think its all due to charger improvements..
It is not possible for the city efficiency to improve 22.6% and the highway efficiency to improve 10.9% solely due to an efficiency improvement in the charging system.
Herm said:
the new motor is supposed to be more efficient but I think its only available in Japan...
I'm not sure why you would think that. When they designed the new "stack", I seriously doubt they made a different design for the motor in the U.S. stack than the one in the Japanese stack.

I suspect the bulk of the efficiency improvements in the city number is due to weight reduction, heat pump, motor improvements and reduction in wiring resistive losses.

It will be interesting to see what the EPA range number turns out to be.

And if there is not a significant increase in EPA range, we may find that the charge in kWh available between "100%" and turtle/stop has been reduced.

That's probably the easiest way Nissan could reduce the costs of future claims under the recently announced "~70%" battery capacity warranty...
 
edatoakrun said:
And if there is not a significant increase in EPA range, we may find that the charge in kWh available between "100%" and turtle/stop has been reduced.
That's probably the easiest way Nissan could reduce the costs of future claims under the recently announced "~70%" battery capacity warranty...

Ohhh you are evil :)

I think the new range will come in at 78 miles, place your bet.
 
Herm said:
Ohhh you are evil :)
+1! Ed's post felt like a kick in the gut! If there's one thing the leaf needs it's more range. If they do something like that, perhaps it will be strongly as a function of high temperatures.
Herm said:
I think the new range will come in at 78 miles, place your bet.
I'm in the same ballpark. I'll say 81 miles.
 
RegGuheert said:
Herm said:
Ohhh you are evil :)
+1! Ed's post felt like a kick in the gut! If there's one thing the leaf needs it's more range. If they do something like that, perhaps it will be strongly as a function of high temperatures.
Herm said:
I think the new range will come in at 78 miles, place your bet.
I'm in the same ballpark. I'll say 81 miles.

I guessed 79 miles a few months ago, but IMO there are so many possible ways either Nissan or the EPA could "fudge" the test number, I would only be truly surprised if it was outside of the 74 to 84 mile range.

I actually think the kWh going into the battery pack will probably be very close to the 2011-2 LEAF's EPA 24, if for no other reason than Nissan would not want to try to explain why the "capacity" decreased.

But I also expect we will probably will still be trying to figure out how many kWh we can actually get out of a 2013 battery pack, when the 2014 LEAFs come out...
 
cwerdna said:
Yeah, someone at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=264810#p264810" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; noticed the change over 12 hours ago. When I last looked earlier today, I also couldn't find a range, only those useless mpge figures.

Not sure what's up with that.

I think that Nissan is purposely staying away from quoting range claims. But there is a quote from a "Bill M, Nissan LEAF owner", saying that he can get all the way around the island of Oahu, 92 miles, on a single charge.


http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/range/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
RegGuheert said:
adric22 said:
If you click the specs section it lists range but it shows "130/102 mpge" which is not a range estimate, rather an efficiency rating.. so they have screwed up somewhere.
I'm not sure those numbers are completely useless. Compare the 2013 MPGe numbers of 130/102/117 withe those of the 2011/2012 which were 106/92/99. So the combined efficiency is 17% higher! Does this imply a similarly higher EPA range estimate?

You can't compare MPGe numbers from different years unless you know the gas and electricity prices they used to calculate it.
 
Boomer23 said:
I think that Nissan is purposely staying away from quoting range claims.
That's good except they need to quote the EPA range number.

My guess: Nissan didn't get the EPA range number they were shooting for and they went back to engineering to make some quick tweaks to the BMS firmware to get it where marketing wants it. As soon as they can get that resolved then they will release the product with the EPA range. But that is purely guesswork on my part.
 
I believe that the increase in the city mileage is due in part to an increase in regenerative braking that has been announced in the 2013 model.

2013 Nissan LEAF® What’s New
Here is an overview of the changes for 2013.

2013 Nissan LEAF
Change
Models and Packages
Trim levels revised
A new S trim level is introduced. This base model has a 3.6 kW in-vehicle charger rather than a 6.6 kW charger and does not offer the information technology and navigation features of SV and SL.
Packages revised

Three option packages are available:
Charge Package for S includes a 6.6 kW in-vehicle charger, quick charge port, and RearView Monitor1.
SV LED Headlights and Quick Charge Port Package includes LED headlights, quick charge port, fog lights, and automatic on/off headlights.
Premium Package available for both SV and SL includes Around View® Monitor2 and a Bose®3 7-speaker audio system.
Warranty
Lithium-ion battery coverage
In addition to the Lithium-Ion Battery Coverage for defects in materials or workmanship (96 months/100,000 miles), the Nissan LEAF® Lithium-Ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine (9) bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle's battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Engine/Motor
AC synchronous motor revised
The torque rating for the AC synchronous motor is now 254 Nm (Newton meters) (equivalent to 187 lb-ft).
6.6 kW in-vehicle charger (SV, SL; optional on S)
The 6.6 kW in-vehicle charger with 6.0 kW output can deliver a Level 2 (normal) full charge in about 4 hours instead of 7+ hours. It’s located under the hood instead of in the cargo area, so it changes the look under the hood and adds space to the cargo area.
Charge port revised
A light is added to the port to enhance visibility. The charge port can be released using the Intelligent Key, and the charging connector can be locked in place until charging is complete.
Drivetrain
Brake mode (B-mode) (SV, SL)
Brake mode works with the regenerative braking system to create more aggressive deceleration and enhance recharging of the lithium-ion battery.
Eco mode revised
Control of Eco mode is moved from the shifter to a button on the steering wheel.
Eco mode no longer defaults to off when the vehicle is turned off. If Eco mode is on when the vehicle is turned off, it stays on when restarting the EV system.
Using both Eco mode and Brake mode at the same time can increase the driving range.
Hill start assist
Hill start assist helps limit roll-back when starting on an uphill slope, even when the driver's foot is removed from the brake pedal. The system holds the brakes for approximately 2 seconds (or until the accelerator pedal is pressed) to limit roll-back.
Brakes
Foot-operated parking brake pedal
The electric parking brake is replaced with a foot-operated parking brake. A small pocket is added where the electric brake lever used to be in the center console.
Wheels and Tires
Wheels revised
The three trim levels have unique wheels:
S has 16-inch steel wheels.
SV has 16-inch aluminum-alloy wheels.
SL has new 17-inch aluminum-alloy wheels.
Chassis
Door and hood panels revised
The door and hood panels are now steel rather than aluminum alloy.
Exterior
Aerodynamics enhanced
The coefficient of drag is lowered to 0.28 from 0.29 by revising the front grille.
LED headlight availability revised (SL; optional on SV)
LED low-beam headlights are standard only on SL. They are optional on SV.
Exterior trim revised
Side marker turn signals are no longer available.
Fog light blanks on the SV are now body color.
Exterior colors revised
New exterior colors are Pure Powder and Metallic Slate.
Interior
Interior colors revised
A new black interior is now standard on S and SL and available on SV.
The light gray interior is available only on SV.
The SL gray interior is no longer available.
Interior seat trim revised
S has cloth fabric.
SV has partially recycled cloth seat fabric.
SL has an exclusive black leather-appointed interior with EV-thematic blue stitching.
Rear head restraints revised
The shape of the rear head restraints is revised to enhance rear visibility.
Leather-wrapped steering wheel
A leather-wrapped steering wheel is now standard on all models.
Comfort and Convenience
Driver-seat rear floor duct
Rear floor ducts are now located under both front seats. They direct air to rear passengers to enhance their comfort.
HVAC timer temperature control (SV, SL)
When the charging connector is plugged in, the HVAC timer can set a specific temperature to heat or cool the cabin.
Remote HVAC activation availability revised (SV, SL)
Remote activation is standard on SV and SL and not available on S.
Hybrid heater system (SV, SL)
The addition of a heat pump enhances the efficiency of the heating system and helps increase the driving range when the heater is in use.
Sun visor extensions
Extensions slide outward from the sun visors to shade a wider area.
Nissan Intelligent Key® fob charging compartment door release
The Nissan Intelligent Key® fob has a button to release the charging compartment door from outside the vehicle.
Nissan Navigation System4 revised (SV, SL)
New features include:
Charging station status
Detailed city map view (where available)
EcoRoute
POIs powered by Google™5
Pandora® radio capability
iPod® cover art display
See Features & Specifications for detailed information.
RearView Monitor availability revised
The RearView Monitor is now optional on S only.
Around View® Monitor (Optional on SV and SL)
The Around View® Monitor uses cameras mounted in the grille, outside mirrors, and rear license plate finisher to help enhance visibility when parking.
Audio Systems
4-speaker AM/FM/CD (S)
S has a 4-speaker audio system. The SV and SL have a standard 6-speaker system.
Bose 7-speaker audio system (Optional on SV and SL)
The Bose audio system in Nissan LEAF uses an Energy Efficient Series amplifier and High Motor Force speakers to consume less power than a comparable premium audio system. It has 7 speakers, including a woofer that uses Bose® Acoustic Waveguide technology to enhance bass response while reducing space.
 
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