OC to San Diego Range question

[ttweed]

Unfortunately there aren't any chargers walking distance from the Chargers.

Actually, there are three L2 Blink chargers at the Ikea just above Qualcomm stadium now. Whether they would be available during a game is another story, though.

TT

 

[TonyWilliams]

If you are interested and have a DC-capable vehicle, we are installing a 50Kw DC Charger

Glad to see your plans progressing. Please come to our San Diego LEAF meeting on 7 Jan 2012 and tell us all about it !!

7 Jan 2012, 9am-11am
Hamburger Factory
14122 Midland Rd Poway, CA
(858) 486-4575

 

[walterbays]

It's GREAT that someone is finally planning to build QC stations!

The membership plans look beneficial only to someone who drives this corridor very frequently, or to someone who lives in a nearby apartment or condo and has no other way of recharging.

Evoasis rates for 20-Minute (Rapid) Charging are approximately 27 Cents/kWh, though selected Membership Levels can make the cost considerably lower.

If that's right after all the fine print is accounted for, I will be a customer! Look how EVoasis prices compare on a per-trip basis rather than on a per kWh basis. Br14n22 reports no trouble with his 76 mile one-way trip, and he stays overnight, so he wouldn't need QC. Richard reports making his 88 mile one-way trip with a 45 minute recharging and restaurant stop, so if he stays overnight he wouldn't need QC either.

How about a 105 mile one-way trip between Long Beach and San Diego? You could do it with a 2 hour L2 recharging stop (movie rather than restaurant) and an overnight stay to start the return trip with 100%. With QC you could do it with 30 minute recharging and snack breaks each way, and no overnight stay required.

Assume you start from home with 100% charge. Your home electricity costs $0.11/kWh overnight on EV TOU rate, including charger inefficiencies. Friend and family electricity costs $0.20/kWh on DR rate. Public L2 charging is either free, or it costs $2/hr. Gasoline costs $3.50/gallon.

Cost of an overnight trip, 3.5 hrs

$ 2.31 - With free public recharging
$ 5.78 - Recharging at a friend's house who also has EV TOU rate
$ 8.61 - Recharging at a friend's house who has DR rate
$21.40 - Recharging at public $2/hr L2 parking

VS. Cost of a one-day or overnight trip, 2.0 hrs

$11.38 - Recharging at EVoasis

VS. Cost of a one-day or overnight trip, 1.5 hrs

$14.70 - Drive a 50 MPG Prius
$24.50 - Drive a 30 MPG car

VS. Cost of Amtrak, 4-5 hrs

$50.00 - Ride train + bus

 

[walterbays]

Unfortunately there aren't any chargers walking distance from the Chargers.

Actually, there are three L2 Blink chargers at the Ikea just above Qualcomm stadium now. Whether they would be available during a game is another story, though.

TT

I wouldn't do it.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jan/04/letters-missing-link-airport-screening/

With no other known alternatives, we did what dozens of other desperate drivers were doing: We parked in the Fenton Marketplace shopping center. Our vehicle was towed. It cost $260 and our good opinion of San Diego to get it back.

 

[TonyWilliams]

around 1am, and temperatures in the low 40s the whole way there....

On the way back, I left around 3:00pm on Monday. Hit a bit of traffic and a bit of rain, but temps were mid fifties. Made it back to Tustin with 3 bars and 23 miles left!.... so that should help prove/disprove my hypothesis.

Dark and low 40's, or daytime and 50's: the heater is probably the main difference. Secondary issue is how much impact the temps had on your battery's capacity.

 

[br14n22]

Did this drive again this weekend, which was important, because I'll have to do it for the next three weekends..

What speed did you travel at when there was no traffic.

Yesterday on my commute I found rain to kill range - probably a combination of needing to run defrost (used defrost/foot mode in ECO which pulls about 1.5kW) but got to work with 3.6 mi / kW where I normally do low 4 mi / kWh.

So I'm surprised you didn't notice any range hit on the way home with a bit of rain, but perhaps traffic helped? Any HVAC either way?

Edit: And what was your indicated mi/kWh as well?

I was around 58-62 mph with no traffic, except towards the end of my commute back, when I knew I was going to make it with plenty of range left, I was going 65-70 mph.

It didn't seem that the rain affected my range, it effectively slowed down traffic as well, so lower speeds helped. Whenever I needed to defrost, I just cracked the windows for a while. No HVAC/heater either way.

mi/kWh on the way down was 4.1, 4.2 on the way back.

 

[br14n22]

around 1am, and temperatures in the low 40s the whole way there....

On the way back, I left around 3:00pm on Monday. Hit a bit of traffic and a bit of rain, but temps were mid fifties. Made it back to Tustin with 3 bars and 23 miles left!.... so that should help prove/disprove my hypothesis.

Dark and low 40's, or daytime and 50's: the heater is probably the main difference. Secondary issue is how much impact the temps had on your battery's capacity.

Bundled up and wore a beanie. No heater to affect my range!

 

[DaveEV]

Evoasis rates for 20-Minute (Rapid) Charging are approximately 27 Cents/kWh, though selected Membership Levels can make the cost considerably lower. Pricing also depends on frequency-of-use, size of battery pack and EVO Award Points which earn charging credits.

I must have missed that in the FAQ. $0.27/kWh is actually quite reasonable. A 20 kWh charge would be only $5.40, roughly comparable to gasoline for a Prius.

The rates themselves are quite reasonable, but unless you use them frequently the membership charges will cost you. Given that I'd use a QC perhaps once a month at most, I couldn't see subscribing.

I wonder what Blink will charge for their QC - at L2 their rates vary between $0.26-$0.40-$0.53 /kWh depending on your membership level (guest = $2/hour, basic = $1.50/hour, member = $2.00/hour). Of course, those with 6.6 kW L2 basically get to charge at half price...

 

[Boomer23]

Evoasis rates for 20-Minute (Rapid) Charging are approximately 27 Cents/kWh, though selected Membership Levels can make the cost considerably lower. Pricing also depends on frequency-of-use, size of battery pack and EVO Award Points which earn charging credits.

I must have missed that in the FAQ. $0.27/kWh is actually quite reasonable. A 20 kWh charge would be only $5.40, roughly comparable to gasoline for a Prius.

The rates themselves are quite reasonable, but unless you use them frequently the membership charges will cost you. Given that I'd use a QC perhaps once a month at most, I couldn't see subscribing.

Agree. I'm excited to see the first concrete plans for DC quick charging in California. I'd also opt for the pay-as-you go plan rather than an $89 per month membership. One of these QCs located in SJC and one in Encinitas could make a round trip to SD realistic for me, and I'd be likely to use them. As described, these EV Oases sound like fun places to stop for 20 minutes.

The FAQs about basic EV energy efficiency and economics need to be revised, but I won't digress here.

 

[TonyWilliams]

around 1am, and temperatures in the low 40s the whole way there....

On the way back, I left around 3:00pm on Monday. Hit a bit of traffic and a bit of rain, but temps were mid fifties. Made it back to Tustin with 3 bars and 23 miles left!.... so that should help prove/disprove my hypothesis.

Dark and low 40's, or daytime and 50's: the heater is probably the main difference. Secondary issue is how much impact the temps had on your battery's capacity.

Bundled up and wore a beanie. No heater to affect my range!

You are wise beyond your LEAF number, Grasshopper.

 

[eHelmholtz]

I must have missed that in the FAQ. $0.27/kWh is actually quite reasonable. A 20 kWh charge would be only $5.40, roughly comparable to gasoline for a Prius.

The rates themselves are quite reasonable, but unless you use them frequently the membership charges will cost you. Given that I'd use a QC perhaps once a month at most, I couldn't see subscribing.

Angus from EV Oasis tells me that the $89 plan gets you 300kwh per month. For people who charge occasionally it's $6-7 for 20kwh (20 minutes) without monthly membership charge which I think is rather reasonable - similar to higher tiered SDG&E rates!

 

[DaveEV]

I must have missed that in the FAQ. $0.27/kWh is actually quite reasonable. A 20 kWh charge would be only $5.40, roughly comparable to gasoline for a Prius.

The rates themselves are quite reasonable, but unless you use them frequently the membership charges will cost you. Given that I'd use a QC perhaps once a month at most, I couldn't see subscribing.

Angus from EV Oasis tells me that the $89 plan gets you 300kwh per month. For people who charge occasionally it's $6-7 for 20kwh (20 minutes) without monthly membership charge which I think is rather reasonable - similar to higher tiered SDG&E rates!

Yes, I would happily pay $7 for a 20kWh DC quick charge!

 

[planet4ever]

For people who charge occasionally it's $6-7 for 20kwh (20 minutes) without monthly membership charge which I think is rather reasonable

Is the price based on time or kWh? You won't get anywhere close to 20 kWh into a LEAF in 20 minutes. The manual says LBW to 80% in 30 minutes. Since LBW is apparently about 17%, and usable (summer) capacity around 21 kWh or a bit less, that is a little more than 13 kWh in 30 minutes.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

For people who charge occasionally it's $6-7 for 20kwh (20 minutes) without monthly membership charge which I think is rather reasonable

Is the price based on time or kWh? You won't get anywhere close to 20 kWh into a LEAF in 20 minutes. The manual says LBW to 80% in 30 minutes. Since LBW is apparently about 17%, and usable (summer) capacity around 21 kWh or a bit less, that is a little more than 13 kWh in 30 minutes.

Good point - at beast (50 kW) in 20 minutes you're going to do about 16.7 kWh, but real life will be less since the charge rate starts tapering off above 50% charged.

 

[Herm]

You won't get anywhere close to 20 kWh into a LEAF in 20 minutes. The manual says LBW to 80% in 30 minutes.

80% of 21kwh is 17kwh

 

[TonyWilliams]

You won't get anywhere close to 20 kWh into a LEAF in 20 minutes. The manual says LBW to 80% in 30 minutes.

80% of 21kwh is 17kwh

From Low Battery Warning (17%) to 80% is 63% of 21kWh... 13kWh in 25 minutes, according to Nissan.

 

[garygid]

In 20 minutes, about 10 kWh if closer to empty, and less if around 50% empty.

 

[eHelmholtz]

Is the price based on time or kWh? You won't get anywhere close to 20 kWh into a LEAF in 20 minutes. The manual says LBW to 80% in 30 minutes. Since LBW is apparently about 17%, and usable (summer) capacity around 21 kWh or a bit less, that is a little more than 13 kWh in 30 minutes.

Sorry everyone, that was a typo on my part. EV Oasis says ~20kWh or ~30 min for that price but they aren't being exact because of many reasons; one is that they are required by California law to charge by time. This is discussed in more detail on this thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7224

 

[br14n22]

Just to get back on topic, did my third trip to SD, and it's official (at least for me) that the drive from OC > SD is a much more energy consuming drive than the drive from SD > OC.

OC > SD, left with 100%, got to my destination with VLB warning. Low 50s, and for whatever reason, did not see a single semi truck to follow in the entire 77 mile journey. Kind of weird. Average speed 60-64

SD > OC, left with 100%, got home with 3 bars and 20 miles left. Drafted behind semis most of the way, average speed 58-67.

Might leave from Costa Mesa this weekend on my drive down, which is the exact same distance to SD from my home in Tustin. Might try the 73. I haven't driven the 73 in a while, but from my recollection, the 73S is mostly downhill. Can anyone who drives this daily confirm? If not the 73, I may take PCH down, as it's not too far out of the way from my starting point in Costa Mesa.

Hope this helps people who need to make this drive! And hopefully, the Chargers will make the playoffs, so I can make the drive a couple times more but that's another story for another day. :roll:

Additionally, with my experience driving this route a couple times, a QC in Del Mar will really ease any possible range anxiety I would have, and hopefully enable me to drive a bit more with the flow of traffic. I'm really looking forward to this infrastructure to be rolled out. Hopefully it's not vaporware!

 

[electricfuture]

What about a QC next to San Onfre State Park inside Camp Pedleton? That takes cae of all the issues. I am trying to get traction on this topic:
Support for Petition Camp Pendleton Quick Charger Station