Official BMW i3 thread

[TomMoloughney]

New i3 concept coupe video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvUcxhRw1yQ[/youtube]

 

[surfingslovak]

Another video, it was uploaded to YouTube couple of days ago (via Chris Neff):


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7gjZv1JA6A[/youtube]

EPA rates Leaf as 20 + cu ft.

Isn't that with folded rear seats? Not sure about about the difference in EPA vs SAE rating, I will try to find out more.

330 L / 28.31 L/cu ft = 12 cu ft (2012)
370 L / 28.31 L/cu ft = 13 cu ft (2013)

The video makes a reference to trunk space. With 200 liters, it's likely about 2/3 of what was available in 2011 and 2012 LEAFs, and a little more than half of the trunk space in the 2013 LEAF.

 

[evnow]

The video makes a reference to trunk space. With 200 liters, it's likely about 2/3 of what was available in 2011 and 2012 LEAFs, and a little more than half of the trunk space in the 2013 LEAF.

Yes - i3 is too small to be considered a CUV replacement. But I think it can be a decent Leaf replacement, even though it is 2 feet (!) shorter than Leaf.

 

[TomMoloughney]

The video makes a reference to trunk space. With 200 liters, it's likely about 2/3 of what was available in 2011 and 2012 LEAFs, and a little more than half of the trunk space in the 2013 LEAF.

Yes - i3 is too small to be considered a CUV replacement. But I think it can be a decent Leaf replacement, even though it is 2 feet (!) shorter than Leaf.

Even though it's 2 feet shorter, the interior passenger volume will be nearly the same. The Leaf has 98cu ft of passenger volume and I expect the i3 to be around 90 cu ft. I know that sounds strange because it's so much smaller, but BMW has done a great job giving it a spacious interior. At the i3 Concept Coupe private event I was at in December at the LA Auto show Oliver Walter of BMW said the interior volume will only be slightly less than that of a 3-Series which has 97 cu ft. However as noted the cargo space in the hatch is definitely much less than a LEAF. It does have the small frunk also though which looks good for only about one grocery sized bag and I don't know if that will be compromised if you get the range extender option.

 

[evnow]

First ride reports on i3 & i8.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-rides-bmw-i8-hybrid-sportscar-and-all-electric-i3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The range extender engine will be a 650cc two-cylinder petrol engine borrowed from its C650 GT step-through motorcycle.

This engine can generate 60 hp / 44 kW of power.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html?content=http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/urban_mobility/c650gt_2012/c650gt_overview.html&notrack=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jhm614]

First ride reports on i3 & i8.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-rides-bmw-i8-hybrid-sportscar-and-all-electric-i3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for posting this -- nice review! I will be interested to see the US price and EPA range on these babies...

 

[SanDust]

Yes - i3 is too small to be considered a CUV replacement. But I think it can be a decent Leaf replacement, even though it is 2 feet (!) shorter than Leaf.

I agree, but it would be a pricey substitute. After my last two weekends the range extender is looking very attractive.

 

[evnow]

I agree, but it would be a pricey substitute. After my last two weekends the range extender is looking very attractive.

Indeed - $500 a month lease instead of $250 or Some $40k vs $25k.

 

[surfingslovak]

Thanks for posting the Autocar link, very interesting. Scooter-station.com has a few photos of what is supposedly the 647 cc liquid-cooled parallel twin engine Kymco manufactures under BMW license. It's reportedly used in both the C600 Sport and the C650 GT. The earliest reference of a BMW/Kymco collaboration I could find is from 2008.

The Autocar report notably contains a casual reference to the range achieved under the European test cycle: 140 miles. Not sure how literally to take this figure, but considering that the 2011/2012 LEAF apparently delivered 109 miles (~170 km) on the European cycle, this would corroborate the claim of 80-100 miles of real-world range for the i3.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Car Magazine has a more detailed review up now. The author seems genuinely impressed. This was his final thoughts:

"The i3 is shaping up to be a breakthrough electric car. It delivers dynamic thrills like no electric car before it. The steering seems highly involving, the drivetrain’s punch would flatten a Leaf, and the handling and road-holding seem up there with BMW’s best. Ulrich Kranz and his team appear to have succeeded in bringing pure driving pleasure to the environmentally friendly car. We’ll know for sure when we drive the car in summer 2013."

Full article:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/BMW-i3-2013-electric-car-test-ride/?content-block=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[edatoakrun]

Car Magazine has a more detailed review up now. ...Full article:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/BMW-i3-2013-electric-car-test-ride/?content-block=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link.

Gives some indication of the answers to my two main questions, price and BEVx operation.

...When the i3 goes on sale in November, the standard electric i3 will cost around €40,000. To eliminate the i3’s vulnerability to running out of juice, buyers will be able to specify a range extender hybrid version for an extra €3000. This employs a 35bhp two-cylinder motorbike engine to act as on-board generator: it’s mounted close to the rear wheels and accompanied by a 9-litre fuel tank wedged behind the front axle...

Well, it sounds like an interesting car, but even if the US BEVx price is (as I expect) well below the ~ $ 70,000 price quoted, I think the details of the BEVx operation will determine it's success.

35 HP (IMO) is not enough to provide reasonable performance in a vehicle of this weight. So I believe that exactly when the engine is allowed to be operated, and how driving and charge level will be regulated after the engine engages, will determine its real-world utility.

If you run out of charge while driving a volt over a mountain pass, you're in a gutless ICEV, but still a drivable vehicle.

If you run out of charge in the mountains in a 35 hp I3, the generator would not appear to be sufficient to maintain reasonable (and perhaps, by some people's standards) safe operation.

 

[SanDust]

Sounds like a fantastic first cut. I agree that 35 hp from the range extender is not enough in some situations but it's enough for what it's designed to do -- which is allow you to drive to the edge of your battery range ... and beyond. It's also just using at a maximum of a couple of gallons, which severely limits range, but also limits how many mountains you're likely to encounter. The 35 hp should be enough to allow you to go 70 MPH on a flat, and, if they keep some battery power in reserve, the i3 should be able to do 65 MPH under most circumstances. Of course it won't have all the performance they're talking about in the article, but less performance beats heck out of walking or hanging around a public charger.

I can't see buying this car without the range extender. Without the extender it's a very pricey Leaf with less cargo area. It may have better performance but when your range limited you're frequently driving in ECO rather than pushing the performance envelope anyway, and a 22 kWh battery pack doesn't provide a lot of runway.

If the price is right with the range extender it should do well. If it's close to $50K then BMW is going to have trouble peddling them. Despite having a range extender, the i3 is really more a competitor for the Leaf since its size and small range extender ensures it falls short of the functionality you get with the Volt. There aren't that many people who can afford a $50K commuter car, and the Leaf, while not a great performer, delivers a perfectly fine, in fact nice, driving experience in most situations. Base to "base with extender" it would be hard to justify more than a $15K premium for the extender, the better performance, and the BMW name.

 

[Boomer23]

The i3's performance seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. Now let's see if they price it within the reach of mere mortals. If Ed's conversion from Euros to dollars is accurate, I can't see many in the UK affording it. As Ed says, prices are often better in the US.

I'm on the fence about needing or wanting the REx. Much more still to be revealed about the REx. I find the potential for added range compelling, but I have reservations about first year reliability with just the BEV components, let alone a completely new genset system integrating with the EV drivetrain in a satisfying way. The scarcity of SAE QCs will mean that the car will be as tethered as most BEVs are today, so REx would be the work-around until (and IF) the QC problem gets solved.

 

[evnow]

They are quoting €3000 for range extender and €40000 for the car. If we translate that to mean about $47k for the car and $3k for the option, we get to $50k. With other options, we are looking at $55k or $47k after tax credit. That would be $15k more than a Leaf.

For us in WA, the REx option could be very costly. $3k for the option itself, but that could mean no sales tax exemption, which would add another $5k. $8k for the REx is expensive.

 

[evnow]

Sounds like a fantastic first cut. I agree that 35 hp from the range extender is not enough in some situations but it's enough for what it's designed to do -- which is allow you to drive to the edge of your battery range ... and beyond. It's also just using at a maximum of a couple of gallons, which severely limits range, but also limits how many mountains you're likely to encounter.

Depends on where you are driving. If we go East of Seattle, that can be quite a few.

BTW, as I wrote earlier, that engine is capable of 60 HP. Not sure why this article says 35hp.

 

[edatoakrun]

If Ed's conversion from Euros to dollars is accurate, I can't see many in the UK affording it. As Ed says, prices are often better in the US...

My error, I some how read that as pounds.

Since when have British publications started to state prices in Euros?

 

[evnow]

Here is one more interesting bit. This is the same LA04 cycle under which Leaf got (more than) 100 miles.

On the [US urban driving test cycle], the car recorded an even more impressive if somewhat theoretical 140 miles.

Ofcourse, if i3 allows 80% charging, the new EPA rating will it give it some meaningless range rating. 80 to 100 miles in "real world" seems achievable.

 

[edatoakrun]

Sounds like a fantastic first cut. I agree that 35 hp from the range extender is not enough in some situations but it's enough for what it's designed to do -- which is allow you to drive to the edge of your battery range ... and beyond. It's also just using at a maximum of a couple of gallons, which severely limits range, but also limits how many mountains you're likely to encounter.

Depends on where you are driving. If we go East of Seattle, that can be quite a few.

BTW, as I wrote earlier, that engine is capable of 60 HP. Not sure why this article says 35hp.

Wouldn't you expect the "ranger extender" to be tuned for maximum efficiency, producing lower peak hp than the ICEV version?

I need to use ~30 kW in my LEAF to maintain ~45 mph on steepest hill on my 55mph speed limit "commute".

That would probably be fairly close to my maximum speed on the same hill in the (~26 kw) but lighter I-3, if the battery were allowed to be (either by me or the BMS ) fully depleted, .

That would piss-off any (unloaded) log truck driver behind me, wanting to drive ~60 mph, big time.

 

[SanDust]

Depends on where you are driving. If we go East of Seattle, that can be quite a few.

BTW, as I wrote earlier, that engine is capable of 60 HP. Not sure why this article says 35hp.

BMW says the car is designed for city driving. We're talking First Hill or Capitol Hill not Snoqualmie Pass. :lol:

Agree with the suggestion that they may be limiting the engine output for MPG purposes. Running a small engine flat out will give you miserable MPG. 35 hp should be more than adequate for getting you to from A to B after the battery has run out of juice. If they wanted more range and full performance they would have gone with a larger engine.

Agree that the price can't add that much expense to the car. However, I have a DC fast charger and a range extender would be at least 10X more useful.

 

[evnow]

I need to use ~30 kW in my LEAF to maintain ~45 mph on steepest hill on my 55mph speed limit "commute".

I wonder whether they will allow you to start charging the battery earlier so that you can climb hills.