Official BMW i3 thread

[evnow]

BMW says the car is designed for city driving. We're talking First Hill or Capitol Hill not Snoqualmie Pass. :lol:

Well, Snoqualmie Pass is not that far to me compared to Capitol Hill :lol:

I'd definitely look to go to places east of the Cascades in i3. If I can't, then, REx isn't that useful.

 

[TonyWilliams]

"The i3 is shaping up to be a breakthrough electric car. It delivers dynamic thrills like no electric car before it.

Anything Tesla powered (including my 4000 pound Rav4) will outrun it, 0-60mph. But, the overall package may be fun. I look forward to test driving one.

 

[edatoakrun]

IMO, for a ~3,000 LB BEV, maybe we should define the terms as:

Under 20 kW = limp-home mode.

~20-30 kW = walk-home mode.

~30-40 kW = jog-home mode...

 

[evnow]

IMO, for a ~3,000 LB BEV, maybe we should define the terms as:

Under 20 kW = limp-home mode.

~20-30 kW = walk-home mode.

~30-40 kW = jog-home mode...

Another way to look at it :

25 kW will recharge the battery in one hour. The battery is rated to go, lets say, 80 miles or about 1 1/2 hour drive @ 50 mph or 65 miles @ 65 mph. So, in steady state, 25 KW should allow you to go at 65 mph.

 

[SanDust]

I wonder whether they will allow you to start charging the battery earlier so that you can climb hills.

Or just reserve some battery power by raising the SOC where the ICE kicks on.

Well, Snoqualmie Pass is not that far to me compared to Capitol Hill :lol:

Maybe you could drive it over to Hanford, leave it parked, and see if it mutates into something stronger and more powerful?

25 KW should allow you to go at 65 mph.

Yes, but on a flat or very slight uphill.

 

[Reddy]

Well, Snoqualmie Pass is not that far to me compared to Capitol Hill :lol:

Maybe you could drive it over to Hanford, leave it parked, and see if it mutates into something stronger and more powerful?

Nope, it hasn't worked for mine, but maybe I need to get closer :roll:

 

[evnow]

How much will the lease on i3 be ? Without knowing the price, residual etc. we can't obviously calculate. But we can speculate ... I've used the Leaf SL residuals. I took $46k as the MSRP and $850 destination. This brings the post tax credit price just below $40k, which I think is something BMW might aim for.

15k miles, 2k down, 36 months, 0.002 MF, 49% residual : $560/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 36 months, 0.001 MF, 49% residual : $500/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 24 months, 0.002 MF, 61% residual : $560/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 24 months, 0.001 MF, 61% residual : $490/month.

 

[Boomer23]

How much will the lease on i3 be ? Without knowing the price, residual etc. we can't obviously calculate. But we can speculate ... I've used the Leaf SL residuals. I took $46k as the MSRP and $850 destination. This brings the post tax credit price just below $40k, which I think is something BMW might aim for.

15k miles, 2k down, 36 months, 0.002 MF, 49% residual : $560/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 36 months, 0.001 MF, 49% residual : $500/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 24 months, 0.002 MF, 61% residual : $560/month.
15k miles, 2k down, 24 months, 0.001 MF, 61% residual : $490/month.

Just for grins you could go to BMWUSA.com and build a similarly priced 3 Series. After you've built the car you can take the MSRP into a lease calculator that BMW provides on the same page and play with the lease factors. You're excellent with lease calcs already, but it might be fun to see what BMW gives you for MF and redid.

 

[evnow]

Just for grins you could go to BMWUSA.com and build a similarly priced 3 Series. After you've built the car you can take the MSRP into a lease calculator that BMW provides on the same page and play with the lease factors. You're excellent with lease calcs already, but it might be fun to see what BMW gives you for MF and redid.

I just tried that again, but they don't break down the MF, residual etc.

For a 328i with an MSRP of 39,645, 15k miles, 36 months, 2k down - they estimate $489. Fairly close to what I got for 0.001 MF.

 

[surfingslovak]

I would expect the i3 to have slightly better aerodynamics than the 2011/2012 LEAF, which had a Cd of 0.29. The outside dimensions should be very similar. I've listed a few representative mph/kW value pairs below. They were derived from Tony Williams' range chart:

 mph  |  kW
 ---- | ----  
 35   |  5.6
 40   |  6.8
 45   |  8.7
 50   | 10.9 
 55   | 12.8
 60   | 15.4
 65   | 18.0
 70   | 21.2
 75   | 25.0

Personally, I think it's plausible that the REx will provide sufficient power for all urban driving situations. Additionally, since it's going to be a true serial hybrid, the REx will recharge the battery. Whenever the instantaneous power demand is lower than what the REx has generated, the battery SOC will go up. Therefore, the battery should be able to augment the REx briefly when power demand exceeded its capabilities. There is a number of interesting things BMW could do here, and the REx, if done right, could be one of the defining features of the i3

.

 

[edatoakrun]

...Personally, I think it's plausible that the REx will provide sufficient power for all urban driving situations. Additionally, since it's going to be a true serial hybrid, the REx will recharge the battery. Whenever the instantaneous power demand is lower than what the REx has generated, the battery SOC will go up. Therefore, the battery should be able to augment the REx briefly when power demand exceeded its capabilities. There is a number of interesting things BMW could do here, and the REx, if done right, could be one of the defining features of the i3...

Yes, and the main question, is whether BMW has doe it "right" or has designed the charge system to comply wit the CARB BEVx standard whatever "the charge-sustaining lower limit" means:

But CARB is wrong, IMO, if, as suggested, it requires that the driver be prevented from engaging the engine before discharging the battery, limiting the RE engine use to “limp-home” mode, only:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6847&start=170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quote:

...CARB staff suggested that the BEVx market may appeal to drivers who would not otherwise consider a BEV with the same range. Since staff considers these vehicles full function BEVs with short range APUs, it stressed the importance of having the minimum range for eligibility be equivalent to full function BEVs in the marketplace.

Basic criteria for these vehicle include:

1. the APU range is equal to or less than the all-electric range;

2. engine operation cannot occur until the battery charge has been depleted to the charge-sustaining lower limit;

3.a minimum 80 miles electric range; and

4.super ultra low emission vehicle (SULEV) and zero evaporative emissions compliant and TZEV warranty requirements on the
battery system...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/01/bevx-20120129.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In conjunction with a 50 kw charger infrasrtructure, just 10 kW of charge-while-driving would be plenty, IMO, for the vast majority of BEVx drivers, as I suggested on page one of that thread.

But only if the BEVx drivers are given the freedom to begin charging when driving plans require it, and only if there is a fast charger at the end of the drivers x-range.

Sounds like the I3 might fall short on both counts.

The first fail, could be due to CARB (at least in CA).

The second fail, due to the I3 not having CHAdeMO DC charge capability, the only standard likely to be even somewhat available in the USA for years to come.

So you may have a lot of 1-3 drivers at some point, trying to move ~3,000 Lbs and ~$50,000 of BEVx around on 35 hp.

That's plenty of hp/kW, for steady-speed freeway driving on level roads.

Totally inadequate, IMO, for many other driving conditions.

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

 

[evnow]

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

Typical BMW owner will not use i3 for long distance - they will use an ICE for that. It will only be EV enthusiasts like us who will try these "long distance" trips in i3.

 

[TomMoloughney]

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

Typical BMW owner will not use i3 for long distance - they will use an ICE for that. It will only be EV enthusiasts like us who will try these "long distance" trips in i3.

I think that's an important point. This car, or any EV doesn't have to do everything for it to be a great car. I don't see why so many people focus on long distance driving for EV's. It's the one thing they don't do well, and even an 85kWh Model S can't compare to the utility of stopping for 8 minutes every 350 miles like a gas car can.

On the few times a year you need to drive 200 or 300 miles you can take a gas car and I bet 90% of BMW owners have multiple cars in the household anyway. Plus, BMW is going to have rental program for BMW i owners. If you buy an i3 and need to drive far for a trip or vacation, you'll be able to go to your dealer and rent a conventional BMW at a very competitive daily rate. Leave your i3 at the dealer, pick up the car and when you return your i3 will be fully charged and ready for you. I bet most dealers will even run it through their car wash also.

 

[edatoakrun]

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

Typical BMW owner will not use i3 for long distance - they will use an ICE for that. It will only be EV enthusiasts like us who will try these "long distance" trips in i3.

Sorry, but I just can't see this functionality as a viable market niche.

So, for most buyers the gas engine is really just a more convenient emergency tow substitute?

It would actually probably work great for me on long flat freeway trips through the Central Valley, but how many "BEV enthusiasts who would like a 35 hp vehicle on occasional long flat freeway trips, and would be willing to recharge before climbing a hill" are there"?

I'm trying to think of the I3 promotional slogan. Maybe something like:

"BMW brings you the first Extended Range Electric Vehicle, designed for short trips..."

I would think GM might be looking forward to being able to promote its Volt/Voltillac EREVs with the (accurate) claim of "three (or four) times the horsepower of the BMW I-3 in range-extended mode".

 

[MrIanB]

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

Typical BMW owner will not use i3 for long distance - they will use an ICE for that. It will only be EV enthusiasts like us who will try these "long distance" trips in i3.

I think that's an important point. This car, or any EV doesn't have to do everything for it to be a great car. I don't see why so many people focus on long distance driving for EV's. It's the one thing they don't do well, and even an 85kWh Model S can't compare to the utility of stopping for 8 minutes every 350 miles like a gas car can.

On the few times a year you need to drive 200 or 300 miles you can take a gas car and I bet 90% of BMW owners have multiple cars in the household anyway. Plus, BMW is going to have rental program for BMW i owners. If you buy an i3 and need to drive far for a trip or vacation, you'll be able to go to your dealer and rent a conventional BMW at a very competitive daily rate. Leave your i3 at the dealer, pick up the car and when you return your i3 will be fully charged and ready for you. I bet most dealers will even run it through their car wash also.

I like this plan if it comes through. I am waiting to see in person the final i3 product.

Ian B

 

[qwk]

What do you suppose the typical BMW owner will think of this?

Typical BMW owner will not use i3 for long distance - they will use an ICE for that. It will only be EV enthusiasts like us who will try these "long distance" trips in i3.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Having an ICE for extended range, but you dont get the extended range? LOL

 

[Ingineer]

20kW is about perfect for a range extender in a Leaf-sized vehicle. My average REX power driving 70mph is about 18kW. Hills are no problem so long as you let the battery charge a little. (as long as they aren't high-speed pike's peak runs!) Now, you may not be able to do 75mph up a long mountain pass, but it should hit a minimum of 45mph. After all, it's a city car. Rent an SUV if you want to go driving in the mountains.

-Phil

 

[evnow]

Today I tried to keep the power usage to < 25kW when going up a hill in my normal commute. I couldn't go over 37 mph. Ofcourse, freeways never go up this steep.

 

[Ingineer]

Keep in mind, as long as there is SOME battery, you'll easily be able to handle peaks over the REX, then the REX will "catch up" the battery.

-Phil

 

[evnow]

Keep in mind, as long as there is SOME battery, you'll easily be able to handle peaks over the REX, then the REX will "catch up" the battery.

-Phil

Yes, there is always the battery buffer. Only sustained climbs (like when it happens when we cross over passes) could be a problem.