Official BMW i3 thread

[ELROY]

The Model S will pulverize the Spark from 60mph+. Trust me on this. I have driven both a P85 and own a regular 85kwh car, and from about 35mph+ they have almost identical performance. You are effectively comparing a low 12 second car to a low 16 second car in the 1/4 mile, which is like comparing a geo metro to a Corvette.

Have you driven a Spark EV? No - 60 to 90 is where I'm looking, and from what you say about how the regular 85 Tesla matches the P85 at speeds above 35mph, it sounds like the Model S's punch maxes out rather early. As I recall in the videos where a P85 outdragged a BMW M5, the Tesla failed to extend its lead on the M5 soon after it got its initial breakaway advantage at the start.

60 to 90. The acid test of performance. It speaks for those times when one is stuck behind a couple of slow moving cars on a winding two lane highway with very short straightaways for passing.

Spark vs. Tesla Model S, 60 to 90. Any bets, anyone? :lol:

Test drove one in sport mode, in town, on the fwy, constantly testing the acceleration. Was underwhelming. Honestly felt slower than the LEAF off the line. (Perhaps it was the fact the salesperson was in the R/F seat). From 20-40mph it felt pretty zippy. On the fwy, flooring it at 60mph barely resulted in any acceleration, like many electrical cars. True test of performance is 60-130mph, Such as in my BMW 335i which did it in under 7 seconds. (ZR1 or quicker numbers). Getting back into the LEAF felt so much more refined, stable, and quiet. The Spark would absolutely get dusted on the fwy by the Tesla, or just about any petrol car. Here is the video of my 335i sedan, which nearly ran 10 second qtr miles, and still got 30mpg going home from the race track.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cfEpbx4nc[/youtube]

 

[scottf200]

<snip>From 20-40 mph it felt pretty zippy.<snip>

For a lot of folks that live and work in the suburb this is a perfect place for the sweet spot. ie. <= 45 MPH roads. Manufacturers need to think about the practicality of these cars if they are planning on selling it to the masses. I do see the practicality point about the 60-80 MPH acceleration tho (I had driving behind big trucks and will pass them at any opportunity). You're 130 MPH point is really just for you.

 

[Boourns]

Here's some i8 news. I am very intrigued by this car, but it will almost certainly be out of my price range: http://jalopnik.com/the-bmw-i8-sports-car-will-do-95-mpg-0-60-mph-in-unde-1053427858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They say the car will pack a 1.5-liter turbocharged three cylinder engine that sends 231 horsepower to the rear wheels while an electric motor sends 131 horsepower to the front wheels. BMW says the torque vectoring AWD system will make for some kickass road performance. They say the car will have a maximum combined rating of 362 horsepower and 420 pound-feet of torque.

The newest zero to 60 mph time is now quoted as under 4.5 seconds, which is faster than their previous claims. They're also saying the plug-in hybrid will achieve 95 miles per gallon on the U.S. cycle. If all these claims turn out to be true — and given how incredible they are, I'm still a bit skeptical — this could be a truly amazing machine.

And apparently Autoweek has driven the engineering mule: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130806/CARREVIEWS/130809888" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The i8 is intriguing, fun and addictive to drive. It has a multi-faceted drive system strong enough to propel it along at quite a furious pace. It also has engaging dynamic qualities making it terrific fun; and with a few changes to dial out initial understeer, it promises to be even more exciting to pedal at the limit.

EDIT: Just got to the bottom of the Autoweek piece and "almost certainly out of my budget" is an understatement! :lol:

 

[edatoakrun]

Moderators,

Can you please do something (like maybe removing i-8 from the title of this mostly i3 thread?) to separate the i3 and i8 threads?

Back to the i3, the NYT story below covers the design process.

The i3 looks to be a little too busy and over-styled, IMO, so not unlike the LEAF design, in that regard.

Hopefully, also like the LEAF, it will look a little less homely in the metal/carbon fiber than it does in the photos.

Any chance of seeing (or driving?) one at the BayLEAFS event at Google HQ on 8/24?

I really think the main problem BEV designers have, is in figuring out how to make the BEV form-follow-function, and still have it appeal to our conventional ideas of what cars should look like, base on our lifetime experiences of looking at ICEVs.

Personally, I would probably rate any attempt to do this above any design just mimicking an ICEV, which was the approach taken by the designers of the Tesla S, IMO.

Electric Stream Flow: Designing the BMW i3

By PHIL PATTON

The i3’s belt line is part of its “stream flow” design.

To develop an electric vehicle with the sporty performance expected of the Ultimate Driving Machine, BMW undoubtedly knew that it would have to do more than simply slap motors and batteries into an existing model. So they designed an entirely new platform with a singular shape, made from innovative materials.

In designing the i3 electric car, BMW engineers were tasked with reducing weight to compensate for heavy batteries. They used a combination of carbon-fiber reinforced plastic and aluminum, and the company mounted the passenger compartment atop the batteries. That approach made for a shorter vehicle with a lower center of gravity, but it also gave it a chunky profile. So designers set out to lighten the tall, bulky “monoform,” said Adrian van Hooydonk, BMW Group’s design director.

“We wanted to remove visual weight from the car,” he said. That meant using all sorts of techniques and tricks to break up the apparent mass of he car, he explained in an interview last week...

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/electric-stream-flow-designing-the-bmw-i3/?src=rechp&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Any chance of seeing (or driving?) one at the BayLEAFS event at Google HQ on 8/24?

That's an astute question. Unfortunately, I cannot officially confirm this, but I know that the organizers of the EV summit are doing what they can to recruit several EV manufacturers and have them bring their latest and greatest. Happy to take this offline and share the contact of the person, who is in touch with BMW.

 

[Boomer23]

I'm posting this here because our friend Tom Moloughney posts most actively here on this thread.

I'll start by reassuring you that Tom is doing okay, but his BMW ActiveE wasn't so lucky.

Tom has participated in BMW's EV field trials since the start of the MiniE program, and owing to his enthusiasm and professionalism, BMW has trusted him with more inside information than any other member of the public. Tom is our most reliable information source about the BMW ActiveE and the i3.

Readers of the ActiveE and i3 Facebook pages learned last week that Tom had been involved in a serious accident with his ActiveE. He has some back injuries and is recovering at home, and carefully following doctor's orders not to move too much. His ActiveE, the first one to be delivered to a member of the public, was totaled, but it saved his life.

Tom published an account of the accident on his blog, and I thought the LEAF community would want to know what happened and some of you might like to leave some well wishes on his blog or on the Facebook BMW ActiveE group page.

You may also enjoy reading his comments about his ambulance ride and his thoughts about the possible publicity from the accident.

Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery, Tom.

http://activeemobility.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-untimely-end-of-bmw-activee-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomMoloughney]

Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery, Tom.

Thank you Boomer. After four pretty bad days I'm really starting to feel a lot better now. I do appreciate the well-wishes. Things like this can happen so quickly, in an instant you can lose everything. I'm very grateful it wasn't worse.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery, Tom.

Thank you Boomer. After four pretty bad days I'm really starting to feel a lot better now. I do appreciate the well-wishes. Things like this can happen so quickly, in an instant you can lose everything. I'm very grateful it wasn't worse.

I was just mentioning your situation to my wife... I told her how we should have the safest car in the world, the Tesla Model S today.

She's considering my request. Get well !!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here is Tesla throwing rocks at BMW:

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/08/21/tesla-board-member-calls-bmws-electric-car-an-odd-duck/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding the BMW i3 electric car scheduled to arrive next year, [Tesla Board Member] Jurvetrson indicated the car [BMW i3] is not a threat to Tesla’s vehicles in part because BMW appears to lack true enthusiasm for electric cars.

“BMW itself said – and I’ve never heard any product release say this a year before its release – we’re not trying to make the best electric car; we’re building this vehicle because we have to for regulatory reasons. They’re basically they’re saying don’t judge us by this car and whether it’s any good or not a year before it’s released,” he told Fox Business Network.

Jurvetson also focused on the differences between the BMW electric and the Tesla Model S, noting the BMW cannot travel as far on battery power and will use a gasoline engine to extend its range.

“They’re putting in a gasoline lawnmower engine in there as a backup. It’s kind of an odd duck,” he said. BMW did not respond to requests for comment.

 

[TomT]

I don't disagree with him.

Regarding the BMW i3 electric car scheduled to arrive next year, [Tesla Board Member] Jurvetrson indicated the car [BMW i3] is not a threat to Tesla’s vehicles in part because BMW appears to lack true enthusiasm for electric cars.

 

[evnow]

Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery, Tom.

Thank you Boomer. After four pretty bad days I'm really starting to feel a lot better now. I do appreciate the well-wishes. Things like this can happen so quickly, in an instant you can lose everything. I'm very grateful it wasn't worse.

Get well soon Tom. Glad it wasn't worse.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't disagree with him.

Regarding the BMW i3 electric car scheduled to arrive next year, [Tesla Board Member] Jurvetrson indicated the car [BMW i3] is not a threat to Tesla’s vehicles in part because BMW appears to lack true enthusiasm for electric cars.

The "regulatory reasons" for building the car don't bode well for our good buddy the Frankenplug. BMW was the only company (besides Nissan) that was not making a conversion car for CARB-ZEV compliance, and it fooled me into thinking that they might pump money into Frankenplug.

Now, there is nobody. Frankenplug = DOA.

 

[evnow]

Here is Tesla throwing rocks at BMW:

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/08/21/tesla-board-member-calls-bmws-electric-car-an-odd-duck/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“BMW itself said – and I’ve never heard any product release say this a year before its release – we’re not trying to make the best electric car; we’re building this vehicle because we have to for regulatory reasons. They’re basically they’re saying don’t judge us by this car and whether it’s any good or not a year before it’s released,” he told Fox Business Network.

From what I've heard there is a lot of infighting within BMW about EVs. That is to be expected in any large company making a very large investment in a nascent technology.

 

[TomMoloughney]

From what I've heard there is a lot of infighting within BMW about EVs. That is to be expected in any large company making a very large investment in a nascent technology.

I wouldn't say a lot of infighting but I do believe there are differing opinions as there are in every major OEM today. The good thing with BMW is the top people on the Board of management and the majority owners, the Quandts are the driving force behind BMW i and they are the ones that make the big decisions.
I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of people in BMW AG and have even toured their facilities in Munich including a rare opportunity to spend a day at the Fiz (their restricted research and development facility) and nothing that I've seen and nobody that I have ever talked to give me any indication that they do not have major plans for BEV's and PHEV's. I believe PHEV's will be their main concentration for the next 2-3 years though but in the following years there will be many long range BEV's to follow.
I would be surprised if they didn't have at least 5 or 6 plug in vehicle offerings in showrooms by 2017.

I love Tesla and am rooting as hard for than as anyone but I can't see how commenting on any other company is in their best interest. Jurvetrson's comments are very unfortunate in my opinion and actually make Tesla look like amateurs. They are riding a wave of success now, top ratings, crash test results, etc. They should be concentrating on telling everyone how great their product is and why people would want to buy one. To start throwing stones at anyone else makes them look foolish IMO. This particular comment is much worse than Elon laughing last week. I heard Elons interview and I think it was actually good natured ribbing and he genuinely couldn't stop laughing once the interviewer did so. Jurvetrson made a comment about what someone said that nobody has ever heard as far as I know. Who said that? How come it was never printed anywhere? I know a lot of the people working on the i3 & i8 and I can assure you none of them look at either of then as compliance cars. In fact BMW is tooling up to make 40,000 i3's per year and I know that for a fact. Maybe they won't sell that many, and maybe people will be turned off by the exterior styling or the 80-100 mile range but the i3 is not in any way a low volume compliance car they "had to make for regulatory reasons". The Quandts and the board of management decided in 2008 that BMW needed to be in the plug-in game and wanted to be the first out of Germany with a line of purpose built electrics and they are doing that. The i3 and i8 are only the first two. More are coming and sooner than later.

 

[evnow]

To me compliance car is when a OEM takes an existing car, spends very little money to convert it and sells/leases (esp. leases) in small quantities in CA - just to make the ZEV numbers. Clearly Mitsu I, BMW i3 & Leaf don't fall in this category. Focus EV is kind of an enigma - it is a conversion that sells in small numbers but is probably just a hedge, rather than pure compliance car. Rest are compliance cars from the actions so far (if not words).

 

[TomMoloughney]

Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery, Tom.

Thank you Boomer. After four pretty bad days I'm really starting to feel a lot better now. I do appreciate the well-wishes. Things like this can happen so quickly, in an instant you can lose everything. I'm very grateful it wasn't worse.

I was just mentioning your situation to my wife... I told her how we should have the safest car in the world, the Tesla Model S today.

She's considering my request. Get well !!!

Thank you Tony. The reasons to buy one keep mounting up! Unfortunately there are a lot of REA$ON$ no to also! The S is a beauty and a beast. As for my car, I don't know if you've read the post or not but it couldn't have done any better. The inside of the car was untouched, all the airbags deployed and BMW Assist came on and was talking to me about 5 seconds from the impact. I'm so thankful they called emergency services because I couldn't have called them myself due to my injuries and the fact that I couldn't even find my phone as it bounced around in the car during the crash.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... all the airbags deployed and BMW Assist came on and was talking to me about 5 seconds from the impact. I'm so thankful they called emergency services because I couldn't have called them myself due to my injuries and the fact that I couldn't even find my phone as it bounced around in the car during the crash.

I don't know if Tesla has a "Tesla Assist". My Rav4 EV has it, and of course some GM products do.

I've already used it once on this car for towing in a snow storm (in San Diego in the mountains).

 

[scottf200]

... the 80-100 mile range but the i3 is not in any way a low volume compliance car they "had to make for regulatory reasons". ...

I wonder if that range gives them room to maintain it for several years without perceived capacity/driving_distance degradation as is becoming painfully a problem with the LEAF battery, DCFC, and their overall design.

There has long been the question of interpretation of Frank Weber's comments about getting the same performance at beginning and end of life. Indeed he is clear that battery will degrade BUT GM was *definitely* concerned about having a more consistent EV range for up to 10 years. Impressive so far. In my 2.5 yr (3 summers) Volt, I left the house yesterday with a 45 EV mile estimate and went 45.2 miles before the ICE kicked in.

See youtube at 38 seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=S6SARzQPcRA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

Ford does as well.

I don't know if Tesla has a "Tesla Assist". My Rav4 EV has it, and of course some GM products do.

 

[TomT]

It's interesting, considering all the back and forth early on when GM and Nissan traded volleys over each others battery strategies... Clearly GM has had the last and by far the biggest laugh!

There has long been the question of interpretation of Frank Weber's comments about getting the same performance at beginning and end of life. Indeed he is clear that battery will degrade BUT GM was *definitely* concerned about having a more consistent EV range for up to 10 years. Impressive so far.