Official BMW i3 thread

[TonyWilliams]

I don't know that I have EVER suggested that home charging shouldn't happen. What the "old guard" EV folks, like you, seem to think concerning inhibiting public charging as a greater good is absolutely silly. Even more than that, it's just dumb. Pure and simple.

I NEVER suggested inhibiting public charging.
Driving from San Diego to San Francisco in a Leaf or some other 80 mile range EV? What a self-torturing and fascinating masochistic lunacy that is!
Sure, you say
...
if I can't do it, I'd never ask YOU to do it,
...
I appreciate you dedication to EV (I actually really do, we do need fanatics in the society), but a lot of people on here have lives and we are discussing real world practical i3 with REx that is helping to broaden EV market. For you to dismiss range extenders as a class at this point in the game and asking general public to do what you do... is not exactly realistic and I'm being very nice choosing the words.

First, this isn't going to turn into a trash talk debate. Period.

Second, I'm not a "fanatic" (with all the negative connotations that implies), nor are you going to casually label me as one, or all the other folks who read this forum and drive 100% electric.

Driving and promoting EV's is not fanaticism, but to somebody driving oil cars, I guess it might seem that way. Again, most people like you drive with oil. It's ok, I don't fault you. Leading in any task or endeavor takes sacrifice. So, while you're thinking "fanatic" to drive only EV's, I'm thinking "leading". Not everybody is a leader; I get that, too.

Third, I clearly mentioned several posts up what I thought were logical uses of hybrid oil / electric cars, and where they aren't particularly useful and why. You disagree. Simple, and we move on.

Fourth, I'm not sure why you think I drove to San Francisco recently with a LEAF. I neither said that, nor implied that I did, and in fact I did not use a LEAF "or other 80 mile range car". That 80 mile range car is prevalent, in part, becasue of lobbying for competing strategies of transport like hybrids (oil and electricity) and now hydrogen. Thankfully, the "fanatics" at California based Tesla Motors disagree with 80 mile cars, hybrids and with hydrogen. I suspect somebody who worked there promoting oil cars wouldn't last long!!!

The state has specifically not built out the charging infrastructure because they've been sold on EV's as strictly limited to at home, metro area transport, and hybrids and hydrogen will "take over" from there. I guess somebody is telling them it takes a "fanatic" to drive an EV, except for the narrow situations previously mentioned. Again, Tesla "solved" all that, and will continue to do so in the future with lower and lower cost all-electric cars. Probably Nissan and maybe some others?

So, again, we are on different planets. Your publiclly expressed "hate" (your word, not mine) of public charging is very much in line with "Old Guard" thinking that is prevalent today among those (thankfully) small number of folks. Again, I've specified those thoughts above which include, "charge at home only, drive the oil burner when needed, no public charging", however the more narrow issue at hand on this forum thread is the concept of the oil burner being integral to the EV.

My assertion is that we will "forever" put EV's in the "fanatic" realm for folks like you, and those who think like you, when we promote hybrids over EV's and EV public charging infrastructure in places like Southern California. It's ok to stick with oil, if that's the easy answer for you. Believe me, I get it. You have "complaints" about the charging network. Ok, good for you.

I'm not going to waste any time getting your exact quotes, because it's not directly pertinent to the issue, but you don't strike me as the guy who's promoting publiclly charging. Quite the opposite, actually, so if I've somehow misinterpretated you, it happens. But, the concept of public infrastructure and EV goes hand-in-hand. Unless you are doing something to make that infrastructure better, you're just a bump in the road. If you're clinging to oil in SoCal because EV's are not convenient for you, again, I understand.

Finally, coming to a forum that began with the modern implementation of all-electric transportation and lecturing us on oil burning hybrids is a bit rich, don't you think? Yes, you can have your opinions, and express them here politely, but there seems to be a tinge of "indignant" in your response (sorry, if that's not the case, but it is my interpretation) that we should embrace hybrids here or we're fanatics and lunatics.

That will probably be widely accepted on forums that cater to hybrid cars, like the Volt or BMW i3 with optional hybrid equipment. I do understand this is a thread about BMW i3, so of course it's apprpriate to post these issues here, but please don't force yourself to "chose your words carefully" on this forum. If you feel you can't live without oil, again, I get understand.

I absolutely understand.

 

[BestPal]

ohhh.. not a problem, if you're running low, just drive out of your way, find a DC station, and sit there for 30 minutes and pay 10x premium for electricity used" is NOT a solution for general public

if you're running low, just drive out of your way, find a DC station -- agreed it is a pain
and sit there for 30 minutes - agreed, that is a lot of time to just sit and wait for re-fueling

pay 10x premium for electricity used - Now this, I don't agree. What do you expect the same 10c/kWh that you pay at home?
....

No, I don't expect that. I actually think that the price is fair given the infrastructure needed to develop it.
But the fact in itself remains that it is 10x more expensive than charging at home. So I just stated the fact.
Thus making range extender a cheaper and more convenient option for those that need a bit of extra range for 10% of their driving that's not covered by EV range, providing a viable EV driving for a larger audience and more electric miles driven overall for everybody and I see that as a good thing. Not arguing with the 100% EV or nothing guy above anymore, that's useless, obviously.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Thus making range extender a cheaper and more convenient option for those that need a bit of extra range for 10% of their driving that's not covered by EV range, providing a viable EV driving for a larger audience and more electric miles driven over. Not arguing with the 100% EV or nothing guy above anymore, that's useless, obviously.

Yep, the oil-or-nothing camp makes more sense. Listen, I clearly enumerated where I thought hybrids made sense, so you are just unable to understand what I'm writing. Other people reading the forum probably get that, or at least can follow along with my assertions.

But, using terms like "lunacy", "fanatic" and "useless" don't make your argument. It does make you eligible for a possible vacation from our forum, however.

Tone it down or get ready to pack your bags, ok?

 

[BestPal]

I did not use any foul language to be banned. Just because you have about 9,000 posts doesn't mean that your opinion here cannot or should not be challenged. I have challenged it and you clearly didn't like that, so let's ban that new guy? OK pal.I'll tone it down I won't respond to your messages anymore you win.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Other people reading the forum probably get that, or at least can follow along with my assertions...

Yes. I, for one, do.

 

[MrIanB]

Picking up i3 Monday for extended test drive, will report back.

Ian B

 

[TonyWilliams]

I did not use any foul language to be banned. Just because you have about 9,000 posts doesn't mean that your opinion here cannot or should not be challenged. I have challenged it and you clearly didn't like that, so let's ban that new guy? OK pal.I'll tone it down I won't respond to your messages anymore you win.

Please do challenge things. Heck, I like a good debate. You never really countered any of my issues, so perhaps you should rely more on enhancing your "oil" support, and less on deriding folks who chose all-electric.

Which is really a sore area with me; folks who chose electric vehicles should be CELEBRATED, not derided.

So, I think you got the message concerning your style of message delivery here.


1) I support robust, quality, fast electric vehicle infrastructure. You "hate" it, and support oil use. We are at opposite sides.

2) People on this forum, who own and operate the all-electric LEAF, are heroes, not "fanatics".

3) People on this forum who wish to use public charging infrastructure are not "lunatics".

4) Folks like you who support oil for transport will be respectful on this forum of our determined all-electric choices. We are not cannon fodder to be ridiculed by you.

5) I don't tell you that oil is for "lunatics" or "fanatics". Actually, like any addiction, I understand the strong desire to want to keep using oil. Similarly, I don't deride folks who chose to smoke cigarettes (although, please don't do it around me... I don't wish to smell it). I recognize that they have an addiction, and they need help to stop that addiction. I don't "hate" gasoline stations or tobacco farms.

Like tobacco, oil is cancerous, and further, it's use has a PROFOUND negative impact on our planet. It's dependancy threatens our very civilization. If we had to go "cold turkey" today with oil, life as we know it in the western world would change dramatically.

So, maybe we can help you? What if I told you that there are folks like me who are working towards an oil free transport world? What can we do to rid you of your oil addiction. Let us help you.

Here's a non-oil idea; For the price of an oil extender on a BMW i3, ten people who chose to put that money in a fund could support a DC fast charger nearby. Amazing, right?

100 of those folks could fund ten. 1000 could fund 100. Or, is it pure FANATIC LUNACY?

 

[Turnover]

Step One
"We admitted we were powerless over oil - that our lives had become unmanageable."

... but then we discovered the Leaf :lol: and driving cheaply and with joy - something we lost in our late twenties- came back

Now addicted to kWh's and wanting more, much more ... :twisted:

 

[TonyWilliams]

ohhh.. not a problem, if you're running low, just drive out of your way, find a DC station, and sit there for 30 minutes and pay 10x premium for electricity used" is NOT a solution for general public

if you're running low, just drive out of your way, find a DC station -- agreed it is a pain
and sit there for 30 minutes - agreed, that is a lot of time to just sit and wait for re-fueling

pay 10x premium for electricity used - Now this, I don't agree. What do you expect the same 10c/kWh that you pay at home?
....

No, I don't expect that. I actually think that the price is fair given the infrastructure needed to develop it.
But the fact in itself remains that it is 10x more expensive than charging at home. So I just stated the fact.
Thus making range extender a cheaper and more convenient option for those that need a bit of extra range for 10% of their driving that's not covered by EV range, providing a viable EV driving for a larger audience and more electric miles driven overall for everybody and I see that as a good thing. Not arguing with the 100% EV or nothing guy above anymore, that's useless, obviously.

I hope this doesn't shock you, but you're not the first to use the "Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM)" argument in leui of paying MONEY for public charging. You are WAY LATE for that argument !!!

Here's how it works for we EV drivers:

1) We "fuel up" at home with a full tank of electrons while we are sleeping. Here in San Diego where you live, you can do that with "Super Off Peak" rates between 12 midnight and 5am. In a LEAF, a full tank might cost about $4.00 and be enough energy to propel the car 80 miles. That is 5 cents per mile.

2) When we want to drive farther than those 80 miles, we need someplace to charge. It might be at work, or at the shopping mall, or where ever we are going. Thankfully, it's never at a stinky oil dispensing station. Our hands don't smell after handing the "refueling" plug.

3) Many places in Southern California have a DC fast charger. Some of these are free, and some cost money. I will use the EVOasis chargers at San Juan Capistrano and Irvine Spectrum for my cost comparisons, since they are perfectly suited for a San Diego driver going north, and priced to compete with oil and hydrogen transport.

For an infrequent trip to neighboring Orange County, I can get enough electrons to get home in about an hour while I'm eating, shopping, working, etc.

The cost for that service is 15 cents per minute, or about $9. The total cost of my round trip to Orange County is $13.

That's 160 miles at 12.3 cents per mile. Now, you beat that with your oil burner.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Step One
"We admitted we were powerless over oil - that our lives had become unmanageable."

... but then we discovered the Leaf :lol: and driving cheaply and with joy - something we lost in our late twenties- came back

Now addicted to kWh's and wanting more, much more ... :twisted:

How many of us are going back to oil? Once you've kicked the habit, and the addiction cycle is broken, who wishes for oil?

Almost nobody. Selling people on hybrids over EV's based on convenience, fear, or flawed cost analysis is as short sighted as telling the alcoholic that it's ok to have just one little drink per day.

The first step is admitting there is a problem. I fully understand the reluctance to want to do that, believe me, I understand.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Yep, the oil-or-nothing camp makes more sense

In defense of BestPal, he isn't really saying 'oil-or-nothing'. He is just saying extend your range with oil, for wimpy range EVs like Leaf. It is not for me, but if that is what gets people to jump into to EVs en-mass then so be it. If the 80 mile range becomes 150 mile Leaf, then the 4 gallons of oil you may use in a month gets down to 1 gallon per month. And then eventually when you get to 200 mile Leaf, you can kick the gas engine out and entirely depend on DC chargers, like the Tesla.

Having a weak gas engine, does not preclude expansion of QCs. In fact it might put EVs into soccer mom's hands and that level of adoption will spur thousands of QCs to be installed. The long term future is, 200+ mile EVs with no gas engines and with QCs in every corner. The question is, how do we get there ?

 

[MrIanB]

Default
Today was day two with the car and I drove 40 miles round-trip. Have 92 miles of charge when I left the house after 240 V charger for night. Was able to charge at work and when I left I had 88 miles of charge on 240 also at work. There are some things that I like about the car there somethings are dealbreaker for me.

I love the torque on this car and house it be drove. Also like how tight the steering is in accurate. I was never able to get the intermittent wipers to work correctly I was only able to get it to work at medium or high speed. The radio next or previous song/station button is too far away to the ride that causes a distraction by looking away from the road.

Here are my pros:
Chart is very aggressive and great to drive.
Tight steering wheel please ask him for driving.
View through the front windshield is excellent.

Here are my cons:
The pricing this car is too high for what it offers for electric range.
Never get it sitting on the driving position what enough that I could see all four corners of the display for the driver.
The ride was a little stiff but I can understand being a BMW German sporty right.
The next song/station or previous song/station buttonit is too far to the right to reach while driving a make cause you to look away.
I could never get the intermittent wipers to work, only for fast speed or medium speed.
Bluetooth connection when used with the phone does not display album cover.
Bluetooth connection when used with the Pandora, Google music play, application does not display art.

Will report back tomorrow and how he does with their range range extender works as I will not charge at work so I can deplete the battery and test how that range extender does.

Ian B

 

[leafatl]

Wanted to help with some of the cons you listed - hope I'm understanding them correctly:

Never get it sitting on the driving position what enough that I could see all four corners of the display for the driver.

Did you try tilting/telescoping the wheel?

The next song/station or previous song/station buttonit is too far to the right to reach while driving a make cause you to look away.

I never use those buttons - use the wheel on the right portion of the steering wheel. You'll get a preview of the song/station it's about to choose next on the instrument cluster, click the wheel to select the song/channel you want. If you just want to skip to the next one, roll it down once and click, no need to look at or reach for anything. FYI, when using the radio the list of stations will either be the "full" station list, or based on your presets - depending on where you "left" the radio menu when you last used it. In other words, if it's not scrolling through your presets, press the Radio button then choose presets (instead of FM or AM).

I could never get the intermittent wipers to work, only for fast speed or medium speed.

Press the button on the end of the wiper lever to enable auto wipers, then roll the wheel on the lever to adjust the sensitivity.

Bluetooth connection when used with the phone does not display album cover.
Bluetooth connection when used with the Pandora, Google music play, application does not display art.

I typically connect/charge my phone via USB, but I just checked and local music on the phone, Pandora, Google Music, and Amazon Music all display album art via Bluetooth. I don't know of a setting that would disable this, so maybe the car you're driving has basic nav instead of pro nav? That's a guess, as I'm not aware of all of the differences between the two. If the car has pro nav, what kind of phone do you have?

Hope this helps.

 

[MrIanB]

Wanted to help with some of the cons you listed - hope I'm understanding them correctly:

Never get it sitting on the driving position what enough that I could see all four corners of the display for the driver.

Did you try tilting/telescoping the wheel?

The next song/station or previous song/station buttonit is too far to the right to reach while driving a make cause you to look away.

I never use those buttons - use the wheel on the right portion of the steering wheel. You'll get a preview of the song/station it's about to choose next on the instrument cluster, click the wheel to select the song/channel you want. If you just want to skip to the next one, roll it down once and click, no need to look at or reach for anything. FYI, when using the radio the list of stations will either be the "full" station list, or based on your presets - depending on where you "left" the radio menu when you last used it. In other words, if it's not scrolling through your presets, press the Radio button then choose presets (instead of FM or AM).

I could never get the intermittent wipers to work, only for fast speed or medium speed.

Press the button on the end of the wiper lever to enable auto wipers, then roll the wheel on the lever to adjust the sensitivity.

Bluetooth connection when used with the phone does not display album cover.
Bluetooth connection when used with the Pandora, Google music play, application does not display art.

I typically connect/charge my phone via USB, but I just checked and local music on the phone, Pandora, Google Music, and Amazon Music all display album art via Bluetooth. I don't know of a setting that would disable this, so maybe the car you're driving has basic nav instead of pro nav? That's a guess, as I'm not aware of all of the differences between the two. If the car has pro nav, what kind of phone do you have?

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the info, some helped , other did not make a difference.

Day 3:

EcoPro+ worked well in bumper to bumper today from and to work. Did not charge at work today as I am trying to empty battery and see how the extended range engine performs. Did my regular 40 mile today to and from work. Showing about 32 miles of charge now and won't charge tonight or at work tomorrow. On the way home should kick the Rex and will report how it does. This will be on the way back from work to return the i3. I am still concerned w the hard regen that whenever I get off the pedal I am looking through rear view mirror as to who might hit me. I think it needs to be toned down. Even my Colt does not stop this fast and gives me time to step on brakes before it comes to a stop.

Ian B

 

[leafatl]

Thanks for all the info, some helped , other did not make a difference.

Day 3:

EcoPro+ worked well in bumper to bumper today from and to work. Did not charge at work today as I am trying to empty battery and see how the extended range engine performs. Did my regular 40 mile today to and from work. Showing about 32 miles of charge now and won't charge tonight or at work tomorrow. On the way home should kick the Rex and will report how it does. This will be on the way back from work to return the i3. I am still concerned w the hard regen that whenever I get off the pedal I am looking through rear view mirror as to who might hit me. I think it needs to be toned down. Even my Colt does not stop this fast and gives me time to step on brakes before it comes to a stop.

Ian B

I'm interested in knowing which ones didn't make a difference, if you're still interested in finding a solution for those items.

You manage how fast the car stops with your right foot and the accelerator - this is what they mean by "one pedal driving". If you lift completely off the pedal, causing any significant deceleration, the car will illuminate the brake lights just as a normal car would when you slow down using the brake pedal.

Once you get used to it, you'll end up stopping exactly where you want without ever touching the brake.

 

[MrIanB]

Thanks for all the info, some helped , other did not make a difference.

Day 3:

EcoPro+ worked well in bumper to bumper today from and to work. Did not charge at work today as I am trying to empty battery and see how the extended range engine performs. Did my regular 40 mile today to and from work. Showing about 32 miles of charge now and won't charge tonight or at work tomorrow. On the way home should kick the Rex and will report how it does. This will be on the way back from work to return the i3. I am still concerned w the hard regen that whenever I get off the pedal I am looking through rear view mirror as to who might hit me. I think it needs to be toned down. Even my Colt does not stop this fast and gives me time to step on brakes before it comes to a stop.

Ian B

I'm interested in knowing which ones didn't make a difference, if you're still interested in finding a solution for those items.

You manage how fast the car stops with your right foot and the accelerator - this is what they mean by "one pedal driving". If you lift completely off the pedal, causing any significant deceleration, the car will illuminate the brake lights just as a normal car would when you slow down using the brake pedal.

Once you get used to it, you'll end up stopping exactly where you want without ever touching the brake.

I drive my Volt always on L but the regen is not as strong as the i3. So if I let go the accelerator at 60mphs, my brake lights come on as I coast or they come on once I get below certain speed like 20 mph without hitting brake pedal??

Ian B

 

[leafatl]

Thanks for all the info, some helped , other did not make a difference.

Day 3:

EcoPro+ worked well in bumper to bumper today from and to work. Did not charge at work today as I am trying to empty battery and see how the extended range engine performs. Did my regular 40 mile today to and from work. Showing about 32 miles of charge now and won't charge tonight or at work tomorrow. On the way home should kick the Rex and will report how it does. This will be on the way back from work to return the i3. I am still concerned w the hard regen that whenever I get off the pedal I am looking through rear view mirror as to who might hit me. I think it needs to be toned down. Even my Colt does not stop this fast and gives me time to step on brakes before it comes to a stop.

Ian B

I'm interested in knowing which ones didn't make a difference, if you're still interested in finding a solution for those items.

You manage how fast the car stops with your right foot and the accelerator - this is what they mean by "one pedal driving". If you lift completely off the pedal, causing any significant deceleration, the car will illuminate the brake lights just as a normal car would when you slow down using the brake pedal.

Once you get used to it, you'll end up stopping exactly where you want without ever touching the brake.

I drive my Volt always on L but the regen is not as strong as the i3. So if I let go the accelerator at 60mphs, my brake lights come on as I coast or they come on once I get below certain speed like 20 mph without hitting brake pedal??

Ian B

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXJPf7Lv8Sw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They do light up if you lift off the pedal completely at 60mph.

There's some highway testing starting around the 5:00 mark. The regen is less aggressive on the i3 at highway speeds, but basically the brakes light up any time the car is slowing down quickly. I've had a few friends follow me in my i3 to see if there's anything unusual about the stopping/brake light usage, and they said it seems like normal behavior when following behind the car.

 

[lorenfb]

"Once you get used to it, you'll end up stopping exactly where you want without ever touching the brake."

Should be great fun on a rainy day in a fast sharp turn to test one's driving skills!

 

[leafatl]

"Once you get used to it, you'll end up stopping exactly where you want without ever touching the brake."

Should be great fun on a rainy day in a fast sharp turn to test one's driving skills!

The brake pedal didn't go away, you just don't need it under most conditions.

 

[lorenfb]

- leafatl-

"The brake pedal didn't go away, you just don't need it under most conditions."

Missed the point, i.e. what happens to the stability of the vehicle under those conditions
with excessive braking with only one set of wheels in a turn on a wet surface.

That's one reason the Leaf limits max regen without the use of the brake pedal so the driver
has more controlled braking in potentially problematic braking conditions.