Official BMW i3 thread

[lorenfb]

"Nice write up. Real world proves Range Extender to be a very practical choice and shows that your driving is 95% electric. That's exactly what it was designed for. Until we have a true EPA 200 mile range EV under $30K I hope other manufactures will get the message and design new gen car with REx option. Wink wink nissan Gen 2 leaf that's being designed from scratch as we speak. I hope they're taking notes. Unless of course they can offer 200 mile EV under $30K, I'd much rather pick that up but until then it's nice to have REx option for those of us who want it. i3Visit the i3 Forum sales numbers prove that most buyers do."

OK, then why not just buy a Volt? Seriously, one really can't justify paying the i3 premium based on any
economic analysis. There aren't any real significant features that offset the premium either. So some
must really value having that three letter emblem on the front and rear, right?

 

[TomMoloughney]

Are new colors coming? Would like BMW red or blue shade colors.

Ian B

I haven't heard of any new color options but perhaps the 2015 MY will have one. You can always wrap it like I did though. I saw one wrapped in blue and it looked pretty good also. Here's how it looks in a 3M Metallic Red wrap:

 

[MrIanB]

Are new colors coming? Would like BMW red or blue shade colors.

Ian B

I haven't heard of any new color options but perhaps the 2015 MY will have one. You can always wrap it like I did though. I saw one wrapped in blue and it looked pretty good also. Here's how it looks in a 3M Metallic Red wrap:

On word, badass!!!! How much if I may ask?

Ian B

 

[BestPal]

"Nice write up. Real world proves Range Extender to be a very practical choice and shows that your driving is 95% electric. That's exactly what it was designed for. Until we have a true EPA 200 mile range EV under $30K I hope other manufactures will get the message and design new gen car with REx option. Wink wink nissan Gen 2 leaf that's being designed from scratch as we speak. I hope they're taking notes. Unless of course they can offer 200 mile EV under $30K, I'd much rather pick that up but until then it's nice to have REx option for those of us who want it. i3Visit the i3 Forum sales numbers prove that most buyers do."

OK, then why not just buy a Volt? Seriously, one really can't justify paying the i3 premium based on any
economic analysis. There aren't any real significant features that offset the premium either. So some
must really value having that three letter emblem on the front and rear, right?

My everyday commute is about 60 miles so closer to half of it would be on gas if I had a Volt.
Not good enough. And I agree i3 cannot be justified economically speaking. But I love the concept and I would like to see a Leaf-priced car with similar EV range that starts at $28K or less + a $3K REx option. First manufacturer to come up with that will absolutely dominate the market until long range EV's are affordable.

I'm curious too, what does it cost to wrap a car like that? It looks nice.And how many car washes will the wrapping last?

 

[TomMoloughney]

I haven't heard of any new color options but perhaps the 2015 MY will have one. You can always wrap it like I did though. I saw one wrapped in blue and it looked pretty good also. Here's how it looks in a 3M Metallic Red wrap:

On word, badass!!!! How much if I may ask?

Ian B

Thanks. I think it came out well too. I can't tell you how many people stop me and ask what it is. Many that do know it's an i3 say they didn't know it was available in red. The full wrap cost $2,700. It can cost more but since I didn't wrap the roof (cool looking CFRP) or the door jambs (also exposed CRFP) it wasn't too bad. I think it would be more like $3,700 if you did the roof and door jambs.

 

[TomMoloughney]

Here's one with another comparison. This time same color

 

[JeremyW]

These beautiful pics just reminded me that the charge port is on the wrong friggin side! You're interacting with the charge port nearly every day, it should be as close to the driver as possible! Grrr! :evil:

 

[TonyWilliams]

My everyday commute is about 60 miles so closer to half of it would be on gas if I had a Volt.
Not good enough. And I agree i3 cannot be justified economically speaking. But I love the concept and I would like to see a Leaf-priced car with similar EV range that starts at $28K or less + a $3K REx option. First manufacturer to come up with that will absolutely dominate the market until long range EV's are affordable.

Planning a future EV with a gasoline engine is not what forward thinking companies like Nissan and Tesla are planning. They are looking at 150 to 500 mile electric only and robust charging infrastructure.

A hybrid gasoline car like a Plug-In Prius, Volt or BMW i3 would never work for me as I drive more than their electric vehicle range in a day, and I don't wish to purchase gasoline or support our continued addiction to that energy medium. The weight and expense of the gasoline engine would be better served as extra batteries and a company committed to EV's, like Tesla or Nissan.

I own two longer range EV's that do meet 99.9% of my driving needs, and I never buy gasoline.

 

[BestPal]

My everyday commute is about 60 miles so closer to half of it would be on gas if I had a Volt.
Not good enough. And I agree i3 cannot be justified economically speaking. But I love the concept and I would like to see a Leaf-priced car with similar EV range that starts at $28K or less + a $3K REx option. First manufacturer to come up with that will absolutely dominate the market until long range EV's are affordable.

Planning a future EV with a gasoline engine is not what forward thinking companies like Nissan and Tesla are planning. They are looking at 150 to 500 mile electric only and robust charging infrastructure.

A hybrid gasoline car like a Plug-In Prius, Volt or BMW i3 would never work for me as I drive more than their electric vehicle range in a day, and I don't wish to purchase gasoline or support our continued addiction to that energy medium. The weight and expense of the gasoline engine would be better served as extra batteries and a company committed to EV's, like Tesla or Nissan.

I own two longer range EV's that do meet 99.9% of my driving needs, and I never buy gasoline.

Must be nice to have two long range EV's. I'm totally with you on the fact that long range EVs are the way to go but at what price point? If you read my post carefully, the one that you quoted above, "...until long range EV's are affordable" is key to the point that I'm making.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Must be nice to have two long range EV's. I'm totally with you on the fact that long range EVs are the way to go but at what price point? If you read my post carefully, the one that you quoted above, "...until long range EV's are affordable" is key to the point that I'm making.

It's very nice. It's also nice to be solar powered for both my house and transport needs.

The price point for EV's is easy enough to calculate:

2014 RAV4 EV has 140 mile range without the use of gasoline and costs $500 per month, zero down, unlimited miles, with a $2500 rebate from California.

Because I drive a lot, I can't aford to use gasoline and do oil changes, etc. So, I fuel up at home for the equivalent of 16 cents per kWh that we can get between midnight and 5am here in sunny San Diego.

So, if I can get 3 miles per kWh consumed, I need 667 kWh per month from our friends at San Diego Gas & Electric.

That's $106 in electricity monthly. Plus, since I support a robust EV charging infrastructure, I'm happy to pay a few bucks per month for those times that I ned a boost out on the road, instead of sending that money to a gasoline station.

My total bill for the operation of this car, less insurance (maintenance and warranty is included with the car) is $606.00, less the amortized $2500 rebate divided by 36 months = $69 per month less.

Net monthly cost: $537

**********

If I had to buy a gasoline car, say a Toyota RAV4 @ 25mpg to drive 2000 miles per month is 80 gallons every month.

At $3.50/gallon = $280 monthly

**********

I would have to have a zero down lease for $257 per month or less to beat my EV's total monthly cost with the identical car. Not a different car... the exact same car.

Frankly, I don't think that is possible. Further, I don't have to buy oil changes every few months.

I can't afford to buy your gas.

 

[Valdemar]

^^^ Ignoring all government incentives, the math works out that way only because Toyota needed to unload its electric RAVs at a deep discount to get the credits. This is not a sustainable business model.

 

[TonyWilliams]

^^^ Ignoring all government incentives, the math works out that way only because Toyota needed to unload its electric RAVs at a deep discount to get the credits. This is not a sustainable business model.

I didn't claim it was without support. I clearly enumerated them, plus I'm infinitely aware of the issues as to why the RAV4 EV was built.

The post was in response to cost to the consumer... "longer range EV's are too expensive, therefore you need to burn gasoline"

In the future, had Toyota elected to continue a RAV4 EV, the cost would only go DOWN, not up.

With cells at $100 per kWh in 2020, the RAV4 EV battery is about $5000, instead of the $36,000 retail price today. No gasoline required.

Adding DC fast charging (instead of a gasoline motor) and installing public DC chargers (instead of supporting the status quo gasoline model) is the future.

 

[adric22]

Planning a future EV with a gasoline engine is not what forward thinking companies like Nissan and Tesla are planning. They are looking at 150 to 500 mile electric only and robust charging infrastructure.

A hybrid gasoline car like a Plug-In Prius, Volt or BMW i3 would never work for me as I drive more than their electric vehicle range in a day, and I don't wish to purchase gasoline or support our continued addiction to that energy medium. The weight and expense of the gasoline engine would be better served as extra batteries and a company committed to EV's, like Tesla or Nissan.

I own two longer range EV's that do meet 99.9% of my driving needs, and I never buy gasoline.

That's great for you. But I'm more interested in plug-in vehicles that the masses will buy. I have talked to hundreds of people about our cars (Leaf+Volt) and most everyone I've talked to said they would not buy an EV unless it had a gasoline engine too. The exception to that would be if it had an EV range of 300+ miles. But we know right now there are no such options affordable to regular people. Since EVs are always a compromise between cost and range, right now the PHEV is the absolute best product to get mass adoption until the price of batteries come down. I'd rather see every car on the road be a PHEV than to see EVs remain a niche product for elitists and tree-huggers.

I think BMW's i3 Rex is absolutely brilliant, as is the Volt. If everyone were driving such a vehicle, we could essentially cut this country's gasoline usage by some ridiculous number like 97%.

 

[BestPal]

I found the same to be true, people loose interest after they find out that the real world range is around 75miles on my 2013 Leaf. And naturally the next question is "what if...", they stop listening right around this point. Now if I could answer "after 75miles a small engine kicks in and you get to where you need to go @38mpg", and it only costs $3,000 as an option on a brand new car, I might have had a lot more conversions at my work place. So far I have only 2 more guys that bought Leafs after I bough mine. And I'm proud of being able to educate these two fellows, but my success rate would be much higher if Leaf had a cheap range extender option.
It's much harder to sell a $45K car but BMW is doing great: 1,159 units sold in October in the US alone. And they've only been selling i3 for a couple of months. Imagine a sub $30K car with such REx option and 80 miles EV range... it would be selling like hot pockets. How do manufacturers not see that?
And the funny part is, all those buyers would be driving mostly electric anyway and almost never use REx. Including me.

 

[lorenfb]

"I'd rather see every car on the road be a PHEV than to see EVs remain a niche product for elitists and tree-huggers."

As a Leaf owner, I don't consider myself as either of those descriptors. I'm able to justify my Leaf lease
based on pure economics.

Last year my mileage was 26K with an ICE that provided 20 mpg and resulted in about $500 - $600
per month in fuel costs plus oil changes, filters, & spark plugs. With the Leaf I reduced the ICE fuel
costs by more than by 50% per month. This alone has offset the cost of the Leaf lease, notwithstanding
the other ICE costs. My SCE electric bill has only increased by about $45 a month. Furthermore,
I'm 'done' with dealing with the pain of ICE maintenance and appointments.

So based on my overall satisfaction with the Leaf and the ICE cost savings, my Leaf lease was a wise
economic decision.

"Now if I could answer "after 75miles a small engine kicks in and you get to where you need to go @38mpg", and it only costs $3,000 as an option on a brand new car, I might have had a lot more conversions at my work place."

Again, the small and inadequate ICE that the i3 provides is a false sense of "range anxiety" reduction
as noted many times. If the sales pitch were as simple as described above, the Volt sales would not
be declining, i.e. the i3 is basically a costly Volt with an inadequate rex but greater battery capacity.
Presently with proper QC planning, I can easily drive from the LAX area to Irvine and back (~130 miles)
with a 10-12 minute QC in Irvine and easily return. So I don't see ANY value in a rex which would
again necessitate an ICE maintenance for the rex.

Bottom line: Most people just see the simplicity of having an ICE and are not that concerned about
the overall present ICE costs, i.e. they're basically lazy and can't deal with thinking beyond inserting a gas hose
in their ICE. The only solution; very high fuel costs and very very high mileage standards!

 

[DaveEV]

Now if I could answer "after 75miles a small engine kicks in and you get to where you need to go @38mpg", and it only costs $3,000 as an option on a brand new car, I might have had a lot more conversions at my work place.

Good point. Though the i3 range extender costs $3,850 extra - and personally I'd love the option to put that money into more batteries.

Tesla sells 25 kWh for $8,000 - let's just say you could had the choice of adding 10 kWh or a range extender to the LEAF/i3 for $3,850 which would add about 40 miles range for an EPA range around 120 miles. 120 EV miles is getting very close to the point where you can take a lot of trips without significant inconvenience. QC would get you more miles in 30 minutes than you do currently as the bigger pack could handle the full 45-50 kW of a typical QC station for much longer - you'd have 200 miles range with a single 30 minute QC stop.

For me that'd handle nearly all my driving except for a couple trips a year where I do 350-450 miles in a day. But an i3 REX isn't really going to work for that, either.

 

[adric22]

Tesla sells 25 kWh for $8,000 - let's just say you could had the choice of adding 10 kWh or a range extender to the LEAF/i3 for $3,850 which would add about 40 miles range for an EPA range around 120 miles. 120 EV miles is getting very close to the point where you can take a lot of trips without significant inconvenience.

I would still prefer the gasoline range extender. The 80-ish miles of EV range of the i3/Leaf would take care of all of my regular driving needs. Any time I'd want to go further than that, the Rex would be far more useful than another 40 miles of EV range. Because without the gasoline Rex, I'd still have to depend on finding a working and available charging station somewhere along my route. At this time, those are rare, especially once you leave the main cities.

In the case I outlined of wanting to drive an EV from Ft.Worth (where I live) to Houston, I could not do it at all with a Leaf. Even if the leaf had 150 miles of range, it still could not be done. Sure, a Tesla can do it with its huge battery and use of superchargers along the way. Otherwise no other BEV on the market can currently do that. However, I could make the trip in an i3 Rex. I'd have to stop for gas around 3 or 4 times before I made it there, but there should be plenty of gas stations along the way. Fast chargers, on the other hand, not so much.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's great for you. But I'm more interested in plug-in vehicles that the masses will buy. I have talked to hundreds of people about our cars (Leaf+Volt) and most everyone I've talked to said they would not buy an EV unless it had a gasoline engine too....
I think BMW's i3 Rex is absolutely brilliant, as is the Volt. If everyone were driving such a vehicle, we could essentially cut this country's gasoline usage by some ridiculous number like 97%.

Yet, the Nissan LEAF, with its iddy biddy range and no gasoline engine (and none planned) outsells any of the top selling plug-in hybrids. I guess those LEAF drivers didn't get the memo that they were going to need oil.

What did Henry Ford used to say? If he asked folks what they wanted in a car, they would answer that they wanted "a faster horse". Hey, I absolutely get the fascination with oil. It's been around a long time propelling cars. Uninformed folks would just assume that they "gotta have gasoline somewhere, right?"

You have these top selling plug-in hybrid choices today. Each of them is a limitation for me, not an enhancement:

1) Volt, 35-50 mile range

2) Plug-in Prius, 6-11 mile range

3) BMW i3, 70 mile range


If any of them offered a wholly electric range extender, I'll bet folks would like that, too.

So, as I've said a million times, buy all the hybrids you want, if that's what works for you. To suggest that's the only thing the public will buy, I completely disagree. Current sales today do not reflect that, nor will those sales reflect that when 150-200 mile cars are available in 5 years with robust DC charging infrastructure.

The biggest names in EV's also disagree with your position, Nissan and Tesla.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For me that'd handle nearly all my driving except for a couple trips a year where I do 350-450 miles in a day. But an i3 REX isn't really going to work for that, either.

Great point. Hybrids are compromised cars. The singular car that does both oil burning and electric almost "effortlessly" is the Volt.

I would go nutty if I had to drive a hybrid car that needed both gasoline and electricity every single day, and that is what I would have to do with a BMW i3 hybrid.

It's gets to a simple point that there isn't a singular "right car" for everybody. Professing that everybody wants a hybrid is just not accurate, and again, today's sales don't reflect that.

 

[GRA]

Via ievs.com:

Crevier BMW Installs 4 DC Fast Chargers, 6 Level 2 EVSEs

http://insideevs.com/crevier-bmw-installs-4-dc-fast-chargers-6-level-2-evses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;