Official California PG&E Thread

[garygid]

Here, any upgrades to capacity require trenching, since the 32-year old buried wires must be replaced with new wires in buried (plastic, 24" deep) conduit. Apparently a PU requirement, so I was lead to believe.

 

[Rat]

I got my TOU meter installed today. This is clearly as a result of calling the EV hotline again last Thursday. Do not rely solely on sending in the form/application for the E9 rate. They didn't say the rate change would also take place today, but I assume it will. It took the installer about 1 minute to swap the old meter out for the new one. He seemed to have no idea about rates or even how the meter worked; he was just filling an order. He said "we don't get many of these." After I asked him if one meter could monitor all the different TOU periods independently he looked at it and said it had 4 different displays, so he figured it could monitor up to 4 different periods.

 

[greenleaf]

I got my TOU meter installed today. This is clearly as a result of calling the EV hotline again last Thursday. Do not rely solely on sending in the form/application for the E9 rate. They didn't say the rate change would also take place today, but I assume it will. It took the installer about 1 minute to swap the old meter out for the new one. He seemed to have no idea about rates or even how the meter worked; he was just filling an order. He said "we don't get many of these." After I asked him if one meter could monitor all the different TOU periods independently he looked at it and said it had 4 different displays, so he figured it could monitor up to 4 different periods.

Was the previous meter an analog one or the Smart Meter?

 

[planet4ever]

After I asked him if one meter could monitor all the different TOU periods independently he looked at it and said it had 4 different displays, so he figured it could monitor up to 4 different periods.

If it's like mine, it monitors three different periods plus total usage. Is it a GE kV2?

 

[leaf561]

I got my TOU meter installed today...

... so he figured it could monitor up to 4 different periods.

Good to know it is a simple swap. Did PG&E charge you anything? And did you take any city permit? (Sorry if it is a repeat question).

I hope they have fixed the Daylight saving dates in the new meters. My E6 still follows the old schedule.

 

[DeaneG]

If it's like mine, it monitors three different periods plus total usage. Is it a GE kV2?

Yikes, the meters computer the TOU period energy totals? I had assumed that they just collect hourly data (like the smartmeters), then PG&E's back office calculates the totals. No wonder they don't do daylight savings time. Sounds like PG&E still has some work to do.

 

[Ready2plugin]

If it's like mine, it monitors three different periods plus total usage. Is it a GE kV2?

Yikes, the meters computer the TOU period energy totals? I had assumed that they just collect hourly data (like the smartmeters), then PG&E's back office calculates the totals. No wonder they don't do daylight savings time. Sounds like PG&E still has some work to do.

Understatement of the year! I'm still waiting on their announcement that is suppose to be coming the first week of December before I change anything. I'm hoping they have some of their software bugs done so I don't need a second meter. We will see!!

 

[planet4ever]

If it's like mine, it monitors three different periods plus total usage. Is it a GE kV2?

Yikes, the meters computer the TOU period energy totals? I had assumed that they just collect hourly data (like the smartmeters), then PG&E's back office calculates the totals. No wonder they don't do daylight savings time. Sounds like PG&E still has some work to do.

Well, if it is a GE kV2 like mine, the only "collecting" being done is when the meter reader comes around once a month, just like they used to.

They may have fixed daylight savings time. My meter was installed before the starting and ending dates were changed (for the US) in 2007. Perhaps leaf561's meter was, too. My meter does automatically jump an hour back and forth, but it does it on the wrong dates. Because of this, PG&E uses "meter DST" instead of real DST for the time periods used to calculate billing rates. It's bad enough to tell your wife to start the dryer after 9PM in the summer and finish the load before 5PM in the winter, but when 5PM becomes 4PM or 6PM for a couple of weeks in the spring or fall ...

 

[Rat]

I got my TOU meter installed today...
... so he figured it could monitor up to 4 different periods.

Good to know it is a simple swap. Did PG&E charge you anything? And did you take any city permit? (Sorry if it is a repeat question).

They didn't say anything about a charge. I guess I'll find out when I get my next bill. No permit. There was no construction. It was like unscrewing a lightbulb and screwing in a different one. They called me a couple of days after the install and told me the new rate would start that day. Another Leafer I know told me he got his meter installed over a month ago and they have only billed him for gas, no electric since then. I assume they recorded his meter reading somewhere and will eventually get the full amount billed, but hey, if I get free electricity for life out of this I'll be happy.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

My meter was installed before the starting and ending dates were changed (for the US) in 2007. Perhaps leaf561's meter was, too. My meter does automatically jump an hour back and forth, but it does it on the wrong dates. Because of this, PG&E uses "meter DST" instead of real DST for the time periods used to calculate billing rates. It's bad enough to tell your wife to start the dryer after 9PM in the summer and finish the load before 5PM in the winter, but when 5PM becomes 4PM or 6PM for a couple of weeks in the spring or fall ...

For what it's worth, my 2008 GE kV2 with SDG&E works exactly the same -- has old daylight savings observance, and the Rate schedule is explicit about the complexity. This leads me to think they don't expect to fix it.

 

[garygid]

So, the TOD rate times are Standard or Daylight-Savings, but the transition dates are the "Old" DST-Transition Dates?

Poor Customer Service, making the rates even MORE difficult to use!

Each Leap-Year does the meter also lose a day?

 

[planet4ever]

They didn't say anything about a charge. I guess I'll find out when I get my next bill. No permit. There was no construction. It was like unscrewing a lightbulb and screwing in a different one. They called me a couple of days after the install and told me the new rate would start that day. Another Leafer I know told me he got his meter installed over a month ago and they have only billed him for gas, no electric since then. I assume they recorded his meter reading somewhere and will eventually get the full amount billed, but hey, if I get free electricity for life out of this I'll be happy.

You will pay a small amount each month on your regular PG&E bill - in my case about $13. This covers fixed charges, like the meter charge and some levies. All of the charges based on usage (+ and -) will be accumulated for a year, then you will get a "true-up" charge added to your bill if the net is positive. I'm not sure what happens if the net is negative since we only generate about 2/3 of what we use. You will get a separate statement each month showing a usage breakdown by time period and the state of your true-up account.

 

[Rat]

... if I get free electricity for life out of this I'll be happy.

You will pay a small amount each month on your regular PG&E bill - in my case about $13. This covers fixed charges, like the meter charge and some levies. All of the charges based on usage (+ and -) will be accumulated for a year, then you will get a "true-up" charge added to your bill if the net is positive. I'm not sure what happens if the net is negative since we only generate about 2/3 of what we use. You will get a separate statement each month showing a usage breakdown by time period and the state of your true-up account.

No, I don't have solar, nor does the other Leafer who hasn't been charged for electricity. There is no reason to accumulate and true up later. I will owe every month just like I do now. I will be really unhappy if they don't send me bills showing usage reasonably promptly (unless they give it all to me free, which is a pipe dream). I want to get an accurate view of my usage and cost as I start using the Leaf, so I can adjust driving style and charging times and household uses as necessary. The guy on the phone said it is not possible to see usage online, either.

 

[planet4ever]

No, I don't have solar, nor does the other Leafer who hasn't been charged for electricity. There is no reason to accumulate and true up later. I will owe every month just like I do now.

Oops, my bad. But from your description it does sound like they installed the same sort of meter we solar folks have. I asked earlier if it is a GE kV2. Is it?

The extra statement we get each month is called a "Net Energy Metering Electric Statement", so you probably won't get the same thing, but you might get something comparable. Ours shows prior and current meter reading for each of the TOU periods (peak, part, off) as well as for the total. It also has baseline information along with amount billed, and a breakdown of that.

 

[Rat]

I asked earlier if it is a GE kV2. Is it?

It's a kV2cs. Mine looks like the one in this picture, without that black curly cord and without the label that says it runs both directions. The label in the picture obscures the "KVcs" on the face underneath. Like the one shown, mine has the letter T blacked out in the upper right "radio button" set, but mine also has marked in pencil in the upper left "E9".

 

[thimel]

Just ran into this tidbit about the E9 rate structure on the PG&E website at http://www.pge.com/myhome/environment/pge/cleanair/electricdrivevehicles/pluginready/index.shtml

On November 2, 2010, PG&E submitted an advice filing to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) requesting that our current electric vehicle rate (E-9 rate schedule) be made voluntary rather than mandatory starting December 2, 2010. This proposed change is subject to approval by the CPUC and we do not know if, or when, the request will be approved. We recommend that you consider this information, and any potential rate options that may be available, when choosing a PG&E electric rate that meets your charging needs. Please check our website after December 2, for updates on the status of this proposal. Feel free to contact us directly in the meantime with your questions at 1-877-743-7782.

 

[LakeLeaf]

but hey, if I get free electricity for life out of this I'll be happy.

If you do get free electricity for life out of this - I'll be over for a recharge now and then

 

[Ready2plugin]

Just ran into this tidbit about the E9 rate structure on the PG&E website at http://www.pge.com/myhome/environment/pge/cleanair/electricdrivevehicles/pluginready/index.shtml

On November 2, 2010, PG&E submitted an advice filing to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) requesting that our current electric vehicle rate (E-9 rate schedule) be made voluntary rather than mandatory starting December 2, 2010. This proposed change is subject to approval by the CPUC and we do not know if, or when, the request will be approved. We recommend that you consider this information, and any potential rate options that may be available, when choosing a PG&E electric rate that meets your charging needs. Please check our website after December 2, for updates on the status of this proposal. Feel free to contact us directly in the meantime with your questions at 1-877-743-7782.

I guess this was why PG&E told me a few weeks ago to wait on doing a second meter until after December 2nd. Now I'm thinking that with my solar I should go from E1 to E6 and just forget about the added expense of setting up my house with a second panel for the E9b or E9a. Anyone look at this already?

 

[Spies]

Now I'm thinking that with my solar I should go from E1 to E6 and just forget about the added expense of setting up my house with a second panel for the E9b or E9a. Anyone look at this already?

Ready2plugin, I am curious to know if you have done the math to see what rate would work best for you assuming that all options are available for you. That is whole house E1, E6, E9A in addition to E1 and E6 with a second meter for E9B.

I am looking at adding solar electric right now and at least for me whole house E9A still looks like the way to go. I'm guessing whole house air conditioning would be a big factor here which I don't have.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Now I'm thinking that with my solar I should go from E1 to E6 and just forget about the added expense of setting up my house with a second panel for the E9b or E9a. Anyone look at this already?

Ready2plugin, I am curious to know if you have done the math to see what rate would work best for you assuming that all options are available for you. That is whole house E1, E6, E9A in addition to E1 and E6 with a second meter for E9B.

I am looking at adding solar electric right now and at least for me whole house E9A still looks like the way to go. I'm guessing whole house air conditioning would be a big factor here which I don't have.

No not yet, currently I'm on E1 and staying in the first tier all year with my solar. Still need to look at the payback period of having the second meter with the E9b. It will cost over $2k to do the trenching and installing a second panel, I have a feeling that the payback time will be too long for me. I'm going to attempt to do the math, unfortunately I'll have to guess the time of use, since PG&E does not have the information.