Official California SDG&E Thread

[SanDust]

I'm in a similar situation - my PV system accounts for pretty close to 100% of my usage (net usage was about 750 kWh for a year) - but for my mid Jan bill I nearly got into Tier 3 - with the LEAF, I will definitely get there and that means 27c / kWh for that whole month. I'm expecting around 175 kWh / month of usage due to the LEAF (maybe more as we drive our other car less) so that would likely push a few other months into Tier 3 as well.

Without the 2nd meter, the only other viable option would be to go whole-house TOU

Run a 240 line. Then use the Blink at off-peak and the modified 240V EVSE at other times. Problem solved.

 

[SanDust]

I spoke with the contractor today. He couldn't guarantee what SDG&E and ECOTality will do, but he said that the situations like this he is aware of have been taken care of quickly and with no additional charge.

If by "quickly" he means at least three months then yeah, maybe they'll take care of it quickly. Here is what SDGE wrote to me months ago. Currently no installation of a second meter is in sight:

At this time you are on a go back list. The list consist of customers that have their EVSE installed without the 2nd meter. Ecotality has started working with their contractors to start scheduling go backs at this time.

In the interim, depending on your current electricity use, you may want to consider our EV-TOU-2 rate. With this rate, your costs are lower when you charge during off-peak hours.

I doubt you can sign up for EV-TOU 2 if you have a PV system. Not only would this conflict with DR-SES, SDG&E probably can't even do the billing for it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Run a 240 line. Then use the Blink at off-peak and the modified 240V EVSE at other times. Problem solved.

I have that very situation. Works great.

 

[DaveEV]

Without the 2nd meter, the only other viable option would be to go whole-house TOU

Run a 240 line. Then use the Blink at off-peak and the modified 240V EVSE at other times. Problem solved.

That would be one way to get around the summer on-peak TOU rates of the 2nd meter - but I can't imagine ever needing to charge on-peak (noon-8pm).

Here's a question - do the EV Project TOU rates apply 7 days a week? All the other TOU rates only apply peak rates on non-holiday week so I would think that they'd be the same, but I can't find any document that says anything about it.

Edit: The docs that Lonndoggie linked to earlier are pretty clear that the TOU rates apply every day.

 

[prmiller]

If by "quickly" he means at least three months then yeah, maybe they'll take care of it quickly. Here is what SDGE wrote to me months ago. Currently no installation of a second meter is in sight:

Have you been pestering ECOTality? Yesterday I spoke with both SDG&E and the contractor, and it became immediately clear that they wouldn't do anything unless ECOTality approved and scheduled it and paid for it. I'll be talking to them today.

I am not sure where the ball got dropped. SDG&E wrote to me that they would be installing a second meter as soon as the charger was inspected, unless I explicitly told them not to. I don't know if they got that info from ECOTality in the first place, or if they were responsible for passing that info to ECOTality. I then don't know whether ECOTality told the contractor and the contractor dropped the ball, or if the contractor was not informed.

I doubt you can sign up for EV-TOU 2 if you have a PV system. Not only would this conflict with DR-SES, SDG&E probably can't even do the billing for it.

That is a good fundamental question: Would the EV-TOU 2 plan be good enough, or should I push for the second meter? I do not have pv yet. On EV-TOU 2, is everything billed at the straight rates per time, or is there still a tiered system?

 

[SanDust]

Edit: The docs that Lonndoggie linked to earlier are pretty clear that the TOU rates apply every day.

You've identified why you'll want to charge on-peak. Peak charging is made for weekends and your EV-TOU rate plan will make you pay for that. Plus it's worse than the DR even off-peak.

Keep in mind that for most months if you stay on DR you'll never get to Tier 2 much less Tier 3. Even paying for 300 kWh at Tier 3 is not the end of the world. The free charger and installation will pay for that usage for thirty years.

Logically you should just take the free charger and forget the second meter.

 

[SanDust]

Have you been pestering ECOTality?
...
That is a good fundamental question: Would the EV-TOU 2 plan be good enough, or should I push for the second meter? I do not have pv yet. On EV-TOU 2, is everything billed at the straight rates per time, or is there still a tiered system?

I haven't bothered. I have a PV system and credits for this year plus carry-forward credits.

If you don't have a PV system then a free second meter will probably be a good idea. But you have to look at how often and when you get billed at the Tier 3 and Tier 4 rates on the base DR plan. It makes a difference. If it looks promising definitely push for the second meter.

 

[DaveEV]

Edit: The docs that Lonndoggie linked to earlier are pretty clear that the TOU rates apply every day.

You've identified why you'll want to charge on-peak. Peak charging is made for weekends and your EV-TOU rate plan will make you pay for that. Plus it's worse than the DR even off-peak.

Keep in mind that for most months if you stay on DR you'll never get to Tier 2 much less Tier 3. Even paying for 300 kWh at Tier 3 is not the end of the world. The free charger and installation will pay for that usage for thirty years.

Logically you should just take the free charger and forget the second meter.

Maybe so - but I figured I had a 66% chance of getting either the medium or high ratio rate - the chance to charge off-peak at half-price was worth it! Looks like the best idea though is your earlier one should I need to charge on-peak - mod my EVSE and install a 20A+ 240V outlet. Of course - given that I'll probably only charge less than 100 kWh on-peak all year - I still come out ahead with the second meter.

Also - at the end of the EV Project - we get to choose what rate plan we want - can't do that by going single-meter.

 

[SanDust]

Also - at the end of the EV Project - we get to choose what rate plan we want - can't do that by going single-meter.

Nothing wrong in not doing the logical thing. A Leaf may not be logical. There has been talk that you can switch to a different plan after a year. So after a year you might be able to switch to "Z" if you prefer that. However, when the EV Project is over you will only be able to choose from the available rate plans, which you could do anyway. So not that much advantage there.

 

[davewill]

Also - at the end of the EV Project - we get to choose what rate plan we want - can't do that by going single-meter.

Nothing wrong in not doing the logical thing. A Leaf may not be logical. There has been talk that you can switch to a different plan after a year. So after a year you might be able to switch to "Z" if you prefer that. However, when the EV Project is over you will only be able to choose from the available rate plans, which you could do anyway. So not that much advantage there.

Yes, but we may be able to choose a rate plan for the EV separate from the house...or maybe not, they aren't really specific.

 

[SanDust]

Yes, but we may be able to choose a rate plan for the EV separate from the house...or maybe not, they aren't really specific.

They say applicable. You couldn't use any rate. A plan could allow for a separate meter but most do not. Apart from the experimental rates, if you wanted to separately meter your EV charger your choice at the moment would be EV-TOU. I think that would be it. If you didn't want to use a separate meter then you would have more choices, including DR or DR-TOU or EV-TOU-2.

I think the idea is that the results of the test will determine what the EV-TOU rate looks like down the road.

 

[DaveEV]

Also - at the end of the EV Project - we get to choose what rate plan we want - can't do that by going single-meter.

Nothing wrong in not doing the logical thing. A Leaf may not be logical.

You don't think that getting a 66% chance to charge at half-price ~7c / kWh and a 33% chance of getting basically the same rate as the DR schedule is logical? Logically - it makes perfect sense. After all - the 2nd meter doesn't cost the customer anything.

However, when the EV Project is over you will only be able to choose from the available rate plans, which you could do anyway. So not that much advantage there.

You're right - I read the rate sheet wrong.

From the rate sheet:

This experimental schedule shall remain in effect until November 30, 2012 (or until the completion of the study) after which the customer will be given the choice of otherwise applicable rate schedules. If a customer does not make an election, they will be defaulted to Schedule EV-TOU.

The question is - you have to assume that they are offering these experimental rates because they want to figure out how to encourage people to charge off-peak - and whether the current spread (the low ratio rate is basically the same as the EV-TOU rate) or higher spreads are required to get people to do that. If the higher spreads are required - one would have to imagine that they would incentivize it by introducing a wider spread rate schedule.

 

[SanDust]

You don't think that getting a 66% chance to charge at half-price ~7c / kWh and a 33% chance of getting basically the same rate as the DR schedule is logical? Logically - it makes perfect sense. After all - the 2nd meter doesn't cost the customer anything.
...
The question is - you have to assume that they are offering these experimental rates because they want to figure out how to encourage people to charge off-peak - and whether the current spread (the low ratio rate is basically the same as the EV-TOU rate) or higher spreads are required to get people to do that.

I didn't mean to suggest your decision wasn't logical. I was thinking more abstractly. More like "if someone in your position had the choice between the 'X' rate and the DR rate which would cost less (be more logical to take)?" FWIW I did exactly what you did. Just in my case SDG&E dropped the ball and didn't locate the second meter.

I will say that, after charging for a few months, I wouldn't look only at the off-peak rate. I think people overestimate how easy it is to only charge at super off-peak. Lots of days when I'd want/need to charge at peak. Picking up on your point about the test, I can tell you that I'd have to get a good deal to leave the DR rate. Messing with the timing of charging is a royal pain. Plus it's not a lot of money. If half of all charging was done using the "Z" rate rather than the '"DR" rate that's only $10/month. That "savings" would get wiped out if you charged 50 kWh at peak. No doubt the "Z" rate would end up costing most people less, I just don't think it would be much less when all was said and done.

 

[ENIAC]

I have a net metering question. I know mode 11 on the meter indicates the Total kWh Received. My question is, that's not the total my solar system produced, right? It seem like that value would be reduced by the kWh the home is consuming, while the solar system is producing. Unless somehow it all loops through the meter.

 

[lonndoggie]

I have a net metering question. I know mode 11 on the meter indicates the Total kWh Received. My question is, that's not the total my solar system produced, right? It seem like that value would be reduced by the kWh the home is consuming, while the solar system is producing. Unless somehow it all loops through the meter.

I think you've got it right, it only counts when the PV array is actually spinning the meter backwards, not just offsetting. They only care about the "net" delivery, so they take what they pushed to you minus what you pushed to them, and that's the total used.

 

[ttweed]

I think people overestimate how easy it is to only charge at super off-peak. Lots of days when I'd want/need to charge at peak.

I guess that depends on how you use the car. I have had no problem charging 100% at super off-peak so far, now that the Blink is installed.

No doubt the "Z" rate would end up costing most people less, I just don't think it would be much less when all was said and done.

I charged the first month we had the car on DR rate w/ the L1 charger. It cost us ~$85. We used 300+ extra kWh for the car and easily got into Tier 4 pricing ($.31/kWh). The next month was all TOU and it cost us $24 for 336 kWh. That is a $60/mo. difference--$720/year. Not inconsequential. Without PV, there is no question in my mind that you want a separate meter and TOU for the Leaf, regardless of which experimental rate you are assigned. I guess if you used the car so much that you were FORCED to charge at peak rates it would be less of a savings, but we have been putting on over 1000 miles per month, which is not light usage, and only charging to 80%, and have never had to charge at peak rates yet. We often put the car away with 30 or 40 miles range remaining. If we charged to 100% every night, we could easily increase our monthly mileage by 20% as well.

TT

 

[derkraut]

Dumb question here:

I got my car on June 14; I'm SDG&E; I have the 2nd meter installed. I have been charging to 80% using the Leaf timer, always from midnight to 5AM. What is my "super off-peak' rate per KWH? (ie: what rate do I enter in the Blink?) Or do I have to wait until I get my first bill?

 

[stanley]

Derkraut, You should have received an E mail or letter with your rate. If you have not received either you can call SDG&E to get it.

 

[derkraut]

Thanks Stanley. I haven't received anything from SDG&E; so, I'll call them.

 

[DaveEV]

I charged the first month we had the car on DR rate w/ the L1 charger. It cost us ~$85. We used 300+ extra kWh for the car and easily got into Tier 4 pricing ($.62/kWh). The next month was all TOU and it cost us $24 for 336 kWh. That is a $60/mo.

I think your price / kWh must be a type-o. Max residential rate for SDG&E is $0.31/kWh at Tier 4 in the summer - basically same as TOU peak rates on the EV-TOU plan or the Experimental "X" rate.