Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

[ElectricVehicle]

I suspect that many of them will never even GET plugged in... I think that the state should have set a minimum electric range to qualify for the green stickers for PHEVs ...

That's my concern as well. Each time the Plug-in Prius is fully charged, the driver will be saving only around $1 or $1.50 on gasoline. I suspect a number of drivers buying the car primarily for the HOV stickers will just not bother plugging in. I'm thankful that California has a cap on the number of HOV stickers for PHEVs.

I think it's all pretty silly - all cars have emissions computers now that are quite capable and already log some vehicle data. They have some flash memory for recording events. one or two dollars is enough to pay for flash memory large enough to monitor emissions reductions. For them to get the HOV sticker, the emissions computer should log the trip lengths (not destinations or geographic data, just the lenght, and how much was gasoline and how much was electric, maybe an average MPG. Then the traditional gas car smog check becomes a were you a good boy check. If you were a good boy, the privilege of another year of HOV stickers is extended to you. If you didn't plug in for any significant usage, then your just a gas car and didn't earn the HOV sticker reward.

Verification of flex fuel vehicles is a fairly critical issue - at least if they are incentivized to reduce emissoins by the use of alt fuels. I see a fair number of flex fuel vehicles in my area and I know there aren't alt fuel E-85 stations for them, or whatever the case may be.

So we can consider Plug In hybrids as Flex Fuel vehicles - gasoline and electricity. If verification at smog check time shows they have largely been driven on gas then they get the gasoline vehicle incentives for that MPG and emissions. If there is significant electric usage, reducing gasoline consumption and emissions, then the vehicle gets incentives proportional to the reduction. As a sustainable model in the future, when we have 100's of thousands or millions of these vehicles on the road, the incentives might be something like reduced registration fees.

 

[evnow]

I think the solution to the pending flood of PHEV is CHAdeMO. Let them have L2, we can do L3!

Toyota is only making 15K next year. I expect Nissan to sell more Leafs.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I think the solution to the pending flood of PHEV is CHAdeMO. Let them have L2, we can do L3!

L3 is Waaaaaay to expensive if you don't need it in terms for the charger hardware costs, installation costs, demand energy costs, etc. We can get 4 to 20 level 2 chargers installed for the cost of one Level 3. Level 3 charges will cost something like $10 - $30 if we pay for them and they get high utilization, even more if they aren't used often. Level 2 during the day will be at peak electric rates, say $0.25/kWh, costing $4 or $5 to charge the car. And you want slow level 1 for settings like work with emloyees that only need a little charge but needs lots of chargers or long term airport parking where even 120V charging will fully charge the car while you're out of town.

 

[SanDust]

How much was the Volt again?

Yes. Add destination chargers to the Prius Advanced and subtract $7500 from a Volt with options and $2500 from the Prius and you get more or less exactly the same price. The base model Prius is less than the base Volt after additions and subtractions but it has considerably less content.

The HOV stickers are probably worth a couple of thousand bucks in CA. All these cars will get those and they'll both get a reduced rebate.

 

[DaveEV]

Toyota is only making 15K next year. I expect Nissan to sell more Leafs.

15k worldwide or in the USA? Nissan in on target to sell close to that many LEAFs in 2011 after a slow start!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

How much was the Volt again?

Yes, that is interesting. Is the net difference something like $5K after tax credit? For that you get up to three times the electric range in the Volt, and no restriction on electric speed or acceleration. But you also get considerably worse gasoline mileage.

Ray

And the average driver does not do a lot of long trips, for most Volt owners the bulk of their driving will likely be EV, at substantial savings over the PHEV Prius. If the Volt comes even close to the 2.2 cents a mile we are seeing on the Leaf, and assuming it's reasonably well built, it will steel the wind out of the sales of the plug in Prius... we are seeing huge gas savings with the Leaf, enough that it will likely pay for itself or come close in it's lifetime. A plug in Prius just won't even come close to that. I really like Toyota, own a hybrid highlander, but it seems they are about to be de-throned if the public is actually paying attention to the long math.

 

[Herm]

I think the solution to the pending flood of PHEV is CHAdeMO. Let them have L2, we can do L3!

Toyota is only making 15K next year. I expect Nissan to sell more Leafs.

GM is also cranking up Volt production.. I think its time for more charger infrastructure studies!.. after all not all scientists can work in climate.

 

[Herm]

How do Leaf owners feel about Plug-in Priuses being parked in the public charge spots?

The same way that Deniers feel when they see a Leaf in the HOV lane?. Religious intolerance is always ugly when it rears up.

The pack in the Prius plug-in is 176lbs, not small by any means. When the Leaf 200 comes out, owners will make fun of the previous generation

 

[TomT]

For those who want to look at a gazillion pictures of it and the screens (and a driving report):

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/17/hands-on-with-toyotas-prius-plug-in-hybrid-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing I have seen or read yet convinced me that I have any interest in it, particularly at a starting price of $32K...

 

[evnow]

Note the trims are not exactly comparable.

 

[keydiver]

I think you would be much further ahead if you picked up a used 2004-2009 Prius and converted it to PHEV with one of the several kits out there. I really like the Hymotion mod I have, although I really wish someone would finally bring the "52 mph hack" to market. When I'm doing errands around town I have to keep watching to make sure I don't exceed 33 mph, which can be impossible sometimes. Most of my daily driving is in the 40-45mph range.

 

[astrorob]

saw and drove one of these at the green drive expo yesterday. having owned two gen-2 priuses in the past, i really like this car.

the 15 mile EV range seems a little ridiculous compared to the volt (and the leaf), but it does represent a ~15x improvement over the EV range of the gen2/gen3 prius. also i live in a hilly area and the regular prius battery is so small that lots of energy that could be regenerated goes to waste... so the big battery is not necessarily worthless if one does not plug the car in.

i think i'm going to sell/trade in my old prius and another car and go for the plug in prius. the carpool stickers are a huge incentive for my family. so we'll have one leaf and one phev prius and that should last us for a while.

 

[adric22]

i think i'm going to sell/trade in my old prius and another car and go for the plug in prius. the carpool stickers are a huge incentive for my family. so we'll have one leaf and one phev prius and that should last us for a while.

That was our plan as well, to have a Leaf and a Prius PHV. However, I was sort of having sticker shock after seeing the base model price of $32,000 which is just about the price of a Leaf. So I may not be going that route after all.

 

[LeafinThePark]

Browsing the Toyota/Prius PHEV website I came across this little nugget:

While the federal government has yet to certify the Prius Plug-in for the incentive, purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of a Federal tax credit estimated to be approximately $2,500.

QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE TAX CREDIT
August 2011

Individual purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of the Federal Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle tax credit. The Prius Plug-in vehicle tax credit is estimated to be approximately $2,500. However, the Internal Revenue Service has not yet reviewed or confirmed the specific amount of credit, so at this time there are no assurances any purchasers will be able to take advantage of any specific amount of the credit, from zero credit up to the above estimate.

Why just $2500? Did not the Volt qualify for the full $7500?

 

[Boomer23]

Browsing the Toyota/Prius PHEV website I came across this little nugget:

While the federal government has yet to certify the Prius Plug-in for the incentive, purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of a Federal tax credit estimated to be approximately $2,500.

QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE TAX CREDIT
August 2011

Individual purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of the Federal Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle tax credit. The Prius Plug-in vehicle tax credit is estimated to be approximately $2,500. However, the Internal Revenue Service has not yet reviewed or confirmed the specific amount of credit, so at this time there are no assurances any purchasers will be able to take advantage of any specific amount of the credit, from zero credit up to the above estimate.

Why just $2500? Did not the Volt qualify for the full $7500?

There's a limitation on the credit based on battery size.

 

[mitch672]

Browsing the Toyota/Prius PHEV website I came across this little nugget:

While the federal government has yet to certify the Prius Plug-in for the incentive, purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of a Federal tax credit estimated to be approximately $2,500.

QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE TAX CREDIT
August 2011

Individual purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of the Federal Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle tax credit. The Prius Plug-in vehicle tax credit is estimated to be approximately $2,500. However, the Internal Revenue Service has not yet reviewed or confirmed the specific amount of credit, so at this time there are no assurances any purchasers will be able to take advantage of any specific amount of the credit, from zero credit up to the above estimate.

Why just $2500? Did not the Volt qualify for the full $7500?

Guess who designed the tax credit? Yup, you guess it GM, and they optimized it for the Volts 16KW pack (even though they do not use the full pack)

Here is how the credit works, the base credit is $2500 for 4KW and then $417 for each additional KW, I will give some examples below, keep in mind the 2012 Plug in Prius has a 4.4KW pack, hence just the base $2500 federal tax credit.

4KW = $2500 [2012 Plug in Prius]
8KW = $4168
12KW = $5836
16KW = $7504 (rounds to $7500) [GM Volt]
23KW = $7500 [Nissan Leaf, nothing for the additional 7KW!]

You'll notice it tops out at 16KW, how convenient, GM.

 

[TomT]

The $32K is for the base model. To get what you'd really want, you are going to be closer to 39K... I don't see any point at that price for 12-15 miles of range, even including the rebate and HOV stickers.
If I was going to go hybrid, I like the Prius V much better, about $29K for the top of the line.

That was our plan as well, to have a Leaf and a Prius PHV. However, I was sort of having sticker shock after seeing the base model price of $32,000 which is just about the price of a Leaf. So I may not be going that route after all.

 

[TEG]

I think Toyota will make some PiP sales in California to people who just want to buy the carpool and/or EV parking perk that goes along with only that model. Otherwise it is a lot more to pay for the MPG improvement.

 

[cwerdna]

Otherwise it is a lot more to pay for the MPG improvement.

The mileage of the PHV Prius is actually 1 mpg less than the non-PHV.

However, I think it would make a great car for very short trips because one will get very crappy mileage in a Prius or any other ICE based car w/short trips.

As I've posted elsewhere, although I'm a bit disappointed in the high starting price of the base model, it is fairly well equipped w/forced features like 3 door SKS, nav, Entune, and remote AC. Also, in addition to the $2500 Federal tax credit, it looks like it's qualified for the $1500 CVRP along w/the aforementioned CA (green) HOV stickers.

Some on Priuschat have speculated it'll be supply limited at first anyway so they may as well get as much as they can from those early adopters and if sales are slow, they can release a cheaper, de-contented model.

 

[EVDrive]

Having paid 23k for the Leaf after rebates, I am so glad i didn't wait for the plug in Prius. I have gen 2 Prius that I want to upgrade instead. Hopefully Hymotion will drop their price.