Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[redLEAF]

I paid "full pop". They wouldn't budge.

Congrats! I assume you'll be taking it up to Santa Ysabel later this month?

Maybe I shouldn't plan on renting one for a weekend - I may get the itch to buy one, too...

If range is an issue with your LEAF, you'll love the Rav4. The power and extra space is just icing in the cake. Yes, I'll have mine up in Santa Ysabel on Nov 17 (ya, won't need any charge up there... I think I could do that round trip twice).

Absolutely rent one! Mossy Toyota has a silver one for rent. Tell them I sent you (apparently, I bought the first one from that dealership). Make sure you know about the Toyota-$7500-Game(TM).

Tony -- any way you could give us a few interior specifically the dash area photos? I understand that the Rav4 EV is a big departure with the info center, climate controls, etc. from the ICE Rav4 -- at least that's what I saw over on the edmunds.com site but wanted to confirm it

 

[cwerdna]

Tony -- any way you could give us a few interior specifically the dash area photos? I understand that the Rav4 EV is a big departure with the info center, climate controls, etc. from the ICE Rav4 -- at least that's what I saw over on the edmunds.com site but wanted to confirm it

You may find the pics at http://toyotanewsroom.com/album_display.cfm?album_id=756&section_id=560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; helpful. Google around for siteressroom.toyota.com "rav4 ev".

You might also find the 5 videos at http://www.toyota.com/esq/vehicles/electric-vehicle/rav4ev-story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (that I posted earlier) interesting, specifically (I think), the one in the lower right (also accessible via http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W4Dre1U6g_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. You probably want to switch to 720p resolution and full screen mode via the gear and frame icons, respectively.

 

[redLEAF]

Tony -- any way you could give us a few interior specifically the dash area photos? I understand that the Rav4 EV is a big departure with the info center, climate controls, etc. from the ICE Rav4 -- at least that's what I saw over on the edmunds.com site but wanted to confirm it

You may find the pics at http://toyotanewsroom.com/album_display.cfm?album_id=756&section_id=560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; helpful. Google around for siteressroom.toyota.com "rav4 ev".

You might also find the 5 videos at http://www.toyota.com/esq/vehicles/electric-vehicle/rav4ev-story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (that I posted earlier) interesting, specifically (I think), the one in the lower right (also accessible via http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W4Dre1U6g_4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. You probably want to switch to 720p resolution and full screen mode via the gear and frame icons, respectively.

Thanks -- looks like edmunds took these same shots; possibly a hint of what the 2013/2014 Rav4 might do as well (excluding the EV specific stuff); the ICE's current layout looks pretty dated but this one is a definite improvement

 

[tbleakne]

I am quite impressed with the freeway performance. Going 75, it still has plenty of power to accelerate. I climbed a few hills in the area, including a high speed climb from Folsom to Placerville, about 30 miles and 3,000 ft of elevation climb up highway 50 when...well...

While not an exact measurement, I've done this particular run up the hill *ahem* in the left lane before. Starting with 100%, I would normally be in VLBW territory when pulling back into the house. The RAV4 started with 13/16 bars and ended with 3 bars and 16 miles remaining on the GOM doing similar if not faster speeds then the leaf.

This looks like you used about 10/16 bars and did a little better than your LEAF's range, perhaps going a little faster. To really get good range from the RAV4's larger battery you are going to have to keep your speed down to minimize the aerodynamic effect of the larger frontal area, perhaps to the low 50s. Given all that tempting torque from the motor, it is going to be difficult to exercise that much self-control. You are also stuck with the range hit from the added weight when going uphill.

Does the RAV4 EV display tell you charging rate ? This would be very useful, given the range of L2 out there:208V 30A, 240V 30A, 40A etc.

Since the EVSE upgrade does not work, the next question is whether the Open EVSE works with the RAV4. I know they have put in more features for compatibility. The Open EVSE with display should be able to give you the actual charging rates.

Tesla pushes their dual 10 kW AC chargers for the Model-S quite strongly, yet I have not seen any announcements from them about high-power AC deployment. I agree using 10 kW at RV parks sounds nice, but without QC the RAV4 really needs in-town AC deployment as well.

IMHO one more reason to choose RAV4 EV over 40 kWh Model-S: the RAV4 has normal seats both front and rear, while Model-S, even with leather, has thin seats that I am told are not very comfortable for extended trips.

But if we lease, Nissan will rightly take the credit, and pass it on to in your lease as a $7500 tax credit.

TOYOTA DOES NOT DO THIS !!! Toyota keeps the credit, according to the Toyota regional dude who explained it away with the dealer I was trying to lease the Rav4 from. The $7500 is just magic that Toyota seems to think that the end consumer is better off not knowing.

So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them (not the dealer... the legal owner, Toyota Financial (or whatever it's called)).

When my Toyota dealer told me that I would lose the $7500 credit if I leased, I assumed he just had not heard from Toyota about a leasing deal that would incorporate the credit like Nissan's. Now I know he was right.

 

[mwalsh]

When my Toyota dealer told me that I would lose the $7500 credit if I leased, I assumed he just had not heard from Toyota about a leasing deal that would incorporate the credit like Nissan's. Now I know he was right.

Oh, the hell with that! I'm going to cross Toyota off my Christmas card list! :x

 

[cwerdna]

When my Toyota dealer told me that I would lose the $7500 credit if I leased, I assumed he just had not heard from Toyota about a leasing deal that would incorporate the credit like Nissan's. Now I know he was right.

Oh, the hell with that! I'm going to cross Toyota off my Christmas card list! :x

Yeah, the policy sucks. For those who were seriously considering leasing the Rav4 EV, be sure to let the dealer and Toyota know (have them record it and pass it up food chain) that their handling of this sucks. Maybe even call their customer experience center or TFS at http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and formally lodge a complaint.

The former Prius product manager (Doug) and Erica (the current one, formerly his direct report) has noted that basically collecting qualitative data is impossible or unreliable thru web forums. See http://priuschat.com/threads/entune-class-action-suit-anyone.111550/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. At least if there's something formally logged in their database, they have an actual record. If there's enough complaints, it might bubble to the top and catch someone's attention.

 

[GRA]

I am quite impressed with the freeway performance. Going 75, it still has plenty of power to accelerate. I climbed a few hills in the area, including a high speed climb from Folsom to Placerville, about 30 miles and 3,000 ft of elevation climb up highway 50 when...well...

While not an exact measurement, I've done this particular run up the hill *ahem* in the left lane before. Starting with 100%, I would normally be in VLBW territory when pulling back into the house. The RAV4 started with 13/16 bars and ended with 3 bars and 16 miles remaining on the GOM doing similar if not faster speeds then the leaf.

This looks like you used about 10/16 bars and did a little better than your LEAF's range, perhaps going a little faster. To really get good range from the RAV4's larger battery you are going to have to keep your speed down to minimize the aerodynamic effect of the larger frontal area, perhaps to the low 50s. Given all that tempting torque from the motor, it is going to be difficult to exercise that much self-control. You are also stuck with the range hit from the added weight when going uphill.

Does the RAV4 EV display tell you charging rate ? This would be very useful, given the range of L2 out there:208V 30A, 240V 30A, 40A etc.

Since the EVSE upgrade does not work, the next question is whether the Open EVSE works with the RAV4. I know they have put in more features for compatibility. The Open EVSE with display should be able to give you the actual charging rates.

Tesla pushes their dual 10 kW AC chargers for the Model-S quite strongly, yet I have not seen any announcements from them about high-power AC deployment. I agree using 10 kW at RV parks sounds nice, but without QC the RAV4 really needs in-town AC deployment as well.

IMHO one more reason to choose RAV4 EV over 40 kWh Model-S: the RAV4 has normal seats both front and rear, while Model-S, even with leather, has thin seats that I am told are not very comfortable for extended trips.

I had sort of hoped that JeremyW would drive it up to Tahoe and back, but since he didn't I guess I'll be _forced_ to rent one from Roseville or maybe a Bay area dealer in the not too distant future and try it - up I-80 because there are chargers in Tahoe City and maybe Truckee (OOS per the most recent report). When I do it I'm going to try to load it up to about two people plus gear's worth of weight, drive with cruise control at 65, lights on, CC as necessary, as I'm more interested in how typical people drive to Tahoe than what hypermilers can achieve. I expect I'll stop in Colfax to charge to 100% before trying the hill (~5,000' of climb), although 80% would probably do it; it may be able to make it non-stop from Roseville, but I'd have to drive slower than normal. Per Google maps, from Colfax it's 50.5 miles to the L2 charger in Truckee, basically all I-80, and another 11.1 miles and 350' climb to the Tahoe City L2 charger at the lake. Total climb for the whole trip looks like 5,500-6,000 feet.

Tony's RAV4 EV mi/kWh numbers equate to a Leaf going 5 mph faster, at least at freeway speeds. And to be conservative, I'm figuring 2kWh/1,000' climb given the extra weight over the Leaf. So, 3.3m/kWh (65mph) 50.5 miles should take about 15.5kWh, plus ~10kWh for the climb, plus say 2 kwH for EcoHigh lights/heat/defrost, total 27.5 kWh with no allowance for wind, density altitude or regen on the descent. The last 11.1 miles to the lake should take well under 5 kWh, as it's slower, leaving me with some reserve in case the charger at the lake is also down. If I can manage to get to Blue Canyon I could coast most of the way down to Colfax on the return.

 

[MrIanB]

Is what Toyota doing w that $7500 credit legal?? Maybe a potential buyer can contact gvt agency handling the rebates and question what Toyota is doing?

Ian B

 

[mwalsh]

Is what Toyota doing w that $7500 credit legal?? Maybe a potential buyer can contact gvt agency handling the rebates and question what Toyota is doing?

Ian B

Probably. The $7500 credit is supposed to go to the buyer. in the case of a lease, the financing arm of the car company is the buyer, not us. When you lease, you are essentially renting a car long-term. Nissan is actually doing us a solid, passing the money down to us the way they have.

 

[GRA]

Is what Toyota doing w that $7500 credit legal?? Maybe a potential buyer can contact gvt agency handling the rebates and question what Toyota is doing?

Ian B

I don't see why it wouldn't be - after all, the lessor owns the vehicle, and the credit is for the vehicle's owner. Just because other companies choose to pass the full amount of the credit on to the lessee doesn't mean they are required to. Although I agree it's a poor PR move on Toyota's part, at the moment they have no competition so can do what they like. I suspect relatively few people who can afford to lease a $50k car will be dissuaded by having to pay 3-4k more, and if they are they can probably afford to buy it outright, just like Tony did.

 

[sparky]

So now the RAV EV is essentially about $3000 cheaper than the Tesla? That is a mistake but consideringToyotas projected volume i am guessing they don't care

On a purchase, it's $7500 cheaper than Tesla S-40.

I paid "full pop". They wouldn't budge.

Congrats on your new EV!
When I rented one, I was surprised at how much I loved driving it. Thought it was worth every penny over the LEAF list price.
As I've stated before, for me, the RAV4 EV would have easily won over the LEAF if it was available in 2010.
I'm still down for the "real" Tesla though. I suspect the resale on a Model S40 will be helped by it being at the bottom of the Tesla price range. The RAV4EV is 2x other RAV4s so may depreciate at a faster clip. I have no facts to back that up however.
Nonetheless, I'll be looking for a used one to replace my LEAF in 3 yrs.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Congratulations on the RAV4 EV. Like the MINI E, 100+ mile range is a beautiful thing I'll be interested to hear if it charges at 10kW on the Rabobank chargers.

WARNING WARNING WARNING...So, when Toyota says their lease has $3200 cash for you, the leasee, they really mean they are going to give you $3200 of the $7500 they get as a credit, for themselves. Instant $4300 profit for them ...

This sounds like Toyota is valuing the price risk of owning the battery at ~3$ per kWh per month.

 

[abasile]

Congratulations on the RAV4 EV. Like the MINI E, 100+ mile range is a beautiful thing I'll be interested to hear if it charges at 10kW on the Rabobank chargers.

+1. On our LEAF trip to the Central Coast last spring, it seemed a shame to be pulling only 3.8 kW from the Rabobank EVSE in Goleta. My wife tells me that her single biggest beef with the LEAF is the 3.3 kW charger. 10 kW would be awesome. A used RAV4 EV might be in our future, perhaps three years from now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

What should I do? You know I'm going to take it all apart!!!

 

[surfingslovak]

What should I do? You know I'm going to take it all apart!!!

What's this? See if you could get a replacement seal from Fremont :mrgreen:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Congratulations on the RAV4 EV. Like the MINI E, 100+ mile range is a beautiful thing I'll be interested to hear if it charges at 10kW on the Rabobank chargers.

Yes, it is. 37kWh of published available energy means I can drive slow and go some really crazy distances (200 miles?).

Where is a list of the 70amp chargers? I had one, but can't find it now. I don't own a Roadster adapter, but my understanding is most of these have been modified to J1772.

 

[TonyWilliams]

What should I do? You know I'm going to take it all apart!!!

What's this? See if you could get a replacement seal from Fremont :mrgreen:

This is the seal on the battery container halves. I don't really want to open it up that bad, but now that I saw this, my desire to open it up goes up.

 

[surfingslovak]

Where is a list of the 70amp chargers? I had one, but can't find it now. I don't own a Roadster adapter, but my understanding is most of these have been modified to J1772.

Try EV Charger News. Hasn't been updated in a while, but their database was authoritative at one point, and it formed the backbone of recargo.com. I charged at the Tesla station in Salinas during the Refuel event at Laguna Seca in July. It's been converted to a J1772 plug.

I don't really want to open it up that bad, but now that I saw this, my desire to open it up goes up.

LOL. Completely understandable. I've heard Kevin Sharpe report once that Tesla detected a cell going bad remotely, and asked him to bring his Roadster in for maintenance. I would think that's what the seal is for: cell replacements and pack maintenance. How many years warranty on the battery?

 

[LEAFer]

Almost all of them are modified to J1772, except those along I-5 and one in Rocklin (along I-80). But even of they were originally for Tesla Roadster ... some of them were installed at less than 70A (as low as 32A in a few cases). The RaboBank ones ... IIRC ... are all 70A

See my post (5th one) here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5439" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also: Look at post #936 here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3093-Nissan-Leaf/page94" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (but keep in mind it is more than a year old)

And if you go to EVChargerNews ... it shows Volts/Amps details (but otherwise may be a bit out of date): http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/ch-tesla-tesla.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here's another good resource: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=104924008962655183586.00048cca5f440e03b1fe4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[KeiJidosha]

..Where is a list of the 70amp chargers?

Salinas (208V), Atascadero (240V), Santa Maria (240V), Goleta (240V), and the Marsh Street Parking Structure in San Luis Obispo (208V) .