Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[grommet]

How many years warranty on the battery?

8 Years or 100,000 miles for the traction pack.

 

[TomT]

And for capacity loss?

How many years warranty on the battery?

8 Years or 100,000 miles for the traction pack.

 

[cwerdna]

What should I do? You know I'm going to take it all apart!!!

I wouldn't take it apart, unless of course, the battery warranty (and whatever else is in there) isn't worth it to you... And, if you sell it... err, I think the battery warranty is worth something to the next guy.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I suspect the resale on a Model S40 will be helped by it being at the bottom of the Tesla price range. The RAV4EV is 2x other RAV4s so may depreciate at a faster clip. I have no facts to back that up however.

Well, I think anything Toyota has a higher likelihood of value retention than Tesla. Maybe, in 10-20 years, with stellar reviews, Tesla will meet the Toyota / Honda standards of value.

The original Rav4 EV's did very well with value.

 

[grommet]

And for capacity loss?

Sorry. Tesla doesn't warranty for capacity loss either.

"The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this New Vehicle Limited Warranty."

 

[TomT]

Well, historically, this has not been an issue for Tesla anyway, what with their TMS, but it is nice to see that all the manufacturers are consistent... :lol:

And for capacity loss?

Sorry. Tesla doesn't warranty for capacity loss either.
"The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this New Vehicle Limited Warranty."

 

[TonyWilliams]

 

[TonyWilliams]

Complaints:

Does not work with Nissan / Panasonic EVSE.

Cheap outside rear view mirrors must be adjusted by hand. Not electric, not even a mechanical interior lever.

No CD player.

Irritating gear box growling at about 65mph with light load. It doesn't do it in regen, or neutral, or even normal cruising power. Could be a harmonic vibration that wasn't caught and compensated for, or a bearing ready to melt down. Does anybody know if Model S drivers complain of this (they might not be able to hear the gear box as well as me, with the gear box / motor at my feet, and not behind the rear wheels as in Model S).

No phone link for their version of CarWings (called EnTune). You must be linked up via Bluetooth to a web enabled device. But, it does have an "OnStar" type system, which obviously uses a cell phone.

The car will only download a small radius of charging stations. Every time you go to a new area, you must download more. Really dumb, and of course, it doesn't have Nissan dealer charging stations !!! You really need any of the good apps with this car (Plug Share, Recargo, Car Stations, etc).

 

[kmp647]

does the Rav allow you to adjust charge current manually, or does it use the signal from the evse only?

do you have an evse capable of the full charge rate on the Rav ?

 

[surfingslovak]

Tech Tip T-TT-0206-12 October 30, 2012

CONDITION

Some customers may complain of a 'Check EV System' message illuminating after attempting to charge their vehicle at a public charging station.

Toyota is investigating this issue.

 

[TonyWilliams]

does the Rav allow you to adjust charge current manually, or does it use the signal from the evse only?

do you have an evse capable of the full charge rate on the Rav ?

The unit it comes with is allegedly made by Panasonic (but much smaller than LEAF one).

It takes 50 hours to charge with it!!! (73% efficiency of maybe 8-10 amps multiplied by 120 volts)

 

[cwerdna]

does the Rav allow you to adjust charge current manually, or does it use the signal from the evse only?

do you have an evse capable of the full charge rate on the Rav ?

The unit it comes with is allegedly made by Panasonic (but much smaller than LEAF one).

It takes 50 hours to charge with it!!! (73% efficiency of maybe 8-10 amps multiplied by 120 volts)

As surfingslovak stated, it's probably the same unit that ships w/the PiP, which Phil says he can upgrade to 12 amps at 240 volts.

Hopefully it works when it come back... I wonder what the compat issue is w/the upgraded Nissan L1 EVSE. Hopefully it's something Phil, Toyota or Tesla can resolve while leaving it compatible w/existing Leafs and Volts.

 

[tbleakne]

I had sort of hoped that JeremyW would drive it up to Tahoe and back, but since he didn't I guess I'll be _forced_ to rent one from Roseville or maybe a Bay area dealer in the not too distant future and try it - up I-80 because there are chargers in Tahoe City and maybe Truckee (OOS per the most recent report). When I do it I'm going to try to load it up to about two people plus gear's worth of weight, drive with cruise control at 65, lights on, CC as necessary, as I'm more interested in how typical people drive to Tahoe than what hypermilers can achieve. I expect I'll stop in Colfax to charge to 100% before trying the hill (~5,000' of climb), although 80% would probably do it; it may be able to make it non-stop from Roseville, but I'd have to drive slower than normal. Per Google maps, from Colfax it's 50.5 miles to the L2 charger in Truckee, basically all I-80, and another 11.1 miles and 350' climb to the Tahoe City L2 charger at the lake. Total climb for the whole trip looks like 5,500-6,000 feet.

Tony's RAV4 EV mi/kWh numbers equate to a Leaf going 5 mph faster, at least at freeway speeds. And to be conservative, I'm figuring 2kWh/1,000' climb given the extra weight over the Leaf. So, 3.3m/kWh (65mph) 50.5 miles should take about 15.5kWh, plus ~10kWh for the climb, plus say 2 kwH for EcoHigh lights/heat/defrost, total 27.5 kWh with no allowance for wind, density altitude or regen on the descent. The last 11.1 miles to the lake should take well under 5 kWh, as it's slower, leaving me with some reserve in case the charger at the lake is also down. If I can manage to get to Blue Canyon I could coast most of the way down to Colfax on the return.

This sounds like a most excellent adventure. I am glad to see there is L2 charging along the way to Tahoe. Your extra allowances are conservative, so you should have no problem, but note that the climb to the pass is 7.1K ft, with some regen coming down into Truckee. I look forward to your report.

 

[tbleakne]

I paid "full pop". They wouldn't budge.

The pictures suggest that the LEAF you sold was the black one, minus its BC to BC wrap. Would you be willing to share what they gave you in trade-in allowance ? It was a 2012 with all its capacity bars still showing. I understand you also have to surrender some of your $2.5K CA rebate since you didn't keep the car a full 3 years, but you get a new rebate for your RAV4.

My Toyota dealer claimed he could get me a real good trade-in price on my LEAF because the owner of his dealership also owned a Nissan dealership. When I asked him where this other dealership was, and he said AZ, I knew I could not fully trust what he said.

 

[waidy]

I paid "full pop". They wouldn't budge.

The pictures suggest that the LEAF you sold was the black one, minus its BC to BC wrap. Would you be willing to share what they gave you in trade-in allowance ? It was a 2012 with all its capacity bars still showing. I understand you also have to surrender some of your $2.5K CA rebate since you didn't keep the car a full 3 years, but you get a new rebate for your RAV4.

My Toyota dealer claimed he could get me a real good trade-in price on my LEAF because the owner of his dealership also owned a Nissan dealership. When I asked him where this other dealership was, and he said AZ, I knew I could not fully trust what he said.

I am also interested to know how much did you get for your 2011 LEAF.

 

[eHelmholtz]

I am also interested to know how much did you get for your 2011 LEAF.

I think he sold it to CarMax for $23K back in August.

 

[JeremyW]

As a follow up to my weekend reviews, here's my best summary of what I liked and didn't like about the car:

Pro:
-Range: 36kWh usable means I can easily get up the hill to Placerville and back. I can get up to my friends place near Brownsville without stopping at an RV park. The added range adds freedom, and I know many would pay for it even if they didn’t use it.
-Faster L2: This is a big deal since we don't have any quick chargers in the area.
-More powerful motor: The power is addicting. But it can get you in to trouble!
-Good handling (for an SUV):It has a lot of weight slung down low, cornering ability is much better than a comparable ICE SUV.
-Utility: It's SUV with a good amount of cargo storage (I moved a sectional couch with it!)
-Proven battery tech: Tesla Roadsters have had good lifetime reports. I'd expect the same from this (although there is no battery capacity warranty).

Con:
-Guzzles kWh's: Seriously. I ranged from 2.5-4 mi/kWh. Hypermiling is certainly possible, but as others have said there are weight and frontal area penalties.
-Nav is not very user friendly: I didn't like the lack of a volume knob, or any way to suddenly silence the radio other than landing on AUX using the mode button. With the leaf you can hit the power button and it's quiet. Didn't bother to fiddle with the entune program.
-The door lock/unlock procedure is different than Nissan: If you have both a leaf and a Rav, this would probably bug you. If you put your hand near the door with the car locked, it will unlock for you. If you hit the button, it will lock and you must use the fob to unlock. Annoying, but if it's your only car it's a non-issue.
-The location of the charge port sucks: This is a Tesla thing. I think it should be on the front or drivers front fender, like GM/Ford/Honda.
-I can't afford it: It's expensive. But considering the drive train, it's a bargain. :lol: I'll just buy some more Tesla stock instead.

Message to Tesla: Put this drive train in a RWD truck, PLEASE.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am also interested to know how much did you get for your 2011 LEAF.

I think he sold it to CarMax for $23K back in August.

Yes, 2011 to CarMax for $23k, July 2012, 25,300 miles

2012 "BC2BC" car (less wrap) in Nov 2012 trade in $22k, 10,700 miles

 

[GRA]

I had sort of hoped that JeremyW would drive it up to Tahoe and back, but since he didn't I guess I'll be _forced_ to rent one from Roseville or maybe a Bay area dealer in the not too distant future and try it - up I-80 because there are chargers in Tahoe City and maybe Truckee (OOS per the most recent report). When I do it I'm going to try to load it up to about two people plus gear's worth of weight, drive with cruise control at 65, lights on, CC as necessary, as I'm more interested in how typical people drive to Tahoe than what hypermilers can achieve. I expect I'll stop in Colfax to charge to 100% before trying the hill (~5,000' of climb), although 80% would probably do it; it may be able to make it non-stop from Roseville, but I'd have to drive slower than normal. Per Google maps, from Colfax it's 50.5 miles to the L2 charger in Truckee, basically all I-80, and another 11.1 miles and 350' climb to the Tahoe City L2 charger at the lake. Total climb for the whole trip looks like 5,500-6,000 feet.

Tony's RAV4 EV mi/kWh numbers equate to a Leaf going 5 mph faster, at least at freeway speeds. And to be conservative, I'm figuring 2kWh/1,000' climb given the extra weight over the Leaf. So, 3.3m/kWh (65mph) 50.5 miles should take about 15.5kWh, plus ~10kWh for the climb, plus say 2 kwH for EcoHigh lights/heat/defrost, total 27.5 kWh with no allowance for wind, density altitude or regen on the descent. The last 11.1 miles to the lake should take well under 5 kWh, as it's slower, leaving me with some reserve in case the charger at the lake is also down. If I can manage to get to Blue Canyon I could coast most of the way down to Colfax on the return.

This sounds like a most excellent adventure. I am glad to see there is L2 charging along the way to Tahoe. Your extra allowances are conservative, so you should have no problem, but note that the climb to the pass is 7.1K ft, with some regen coming down into Truckee. I look forward to your report.

It would be 7.1k from Roseville, but only ~5,000 from Colfax (lowest point 2,283', Donner Summit @ 7,239'). Ideally you'd want to be able to drive non-stop from Sacramento to the lake (~114 miles), but that's not realistic in the RAV4EV. The two EVSEs furthest up the climb are at Clipper Creek's headquarters in Auburn (33 miles from Jct. U.S. 50 & S.R. 99, lowest pt. 1,156') and Colfax another 16 miles further east.

I don't count regen when planning a trip, unless I know how much I can count on. On I-80 I expect I'd mostly be coasting rather than regenerating coming down the hill into Truckee on a dry road. If I were to come down the old road (U.S. 40) I'd probably be getting a lot more regen, but that's not how people normally drive to the lake. Not having any experience with the RAV4, I'd much rather err on the conservative side for my calcs. I just wish to hell that the EVSE in Tuckee was up, as I hate to depend on a single EVSE.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, Virginia, it still goes 130 miles (from 100% "extended" charge). Here's today's drive to the downtown office, lunch, and return. The same trip was done last week (with an added stop at doctor) that brought the LEAF home @ LBW:

Note: fuel gauge is very linear from about 80% to zero. When it is charged to 100%, the fuel gauge gives no indication that I can find that it is anything but 80%. Advantage LEAF in this area.