Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[cwerdna]

was looking at the place tony bought his from,
i see they have another one for sale

http://www.mossytoyota.com/new-San+Diego-2012-Toyota-RAV4+EV-Base-2T3YL4DV5CW001023?#tabs-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so with a vin number of "2" these are made in the USA? i think i may want one now.

The very first letter or number of the VIN tells you in what region of the world your vehicle was made. Match the letter or number below to the first number or letter of your VIN to find out in what region of the world your VIN was made.

A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H are made in Africa
J, K, L, M, N, P, and R are made Asia
S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z are made in Europe
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are made in North America 2T= Canada
6 and 7 are made in Oceania
8 and 9 are made in South America

Yours was assembled in Canada, right?

I found these 3 URLs by Googling for site:toyota.com "rav4 ev" assembled canada.
http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/engineering_and_manufacturing/tmmc/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+tesla+build+rav4+ev+woodstock+ontario.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tmmc.ca/en/west-plant-woodstock.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If so, it is made in... North America.

Unrelated, while digging around, I found the Emergency Response Guide (ERG) for the current Rav4 EV. Not sure if it's been posted yet.
https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/rav4ev2nd.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh yeah, and at Alt Car Expo, I recall one of the Toyota folks (I believe while driving their hydrogen FCV) telling me that they got borrowed/got some of the engineers from their FCV project to work on the Rav4 EV.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

...snip... and i guess my other issue would be, what happens i buy this from CA, bring it back to GA, who can fix it? lol?

For several years I lurked on the Rav4-EV users group. Folks outside the official lease and sales areas are on their own to solve EV-specific problems. That's where the group comes in with tips, photos, DIY improvements, replacement charging system capacitors, etc.. Those wanting a battery refresh for their original Rav4-EV have to ship their cars to a dealer in the Sacramento area, who in turn takes them to the sole source for batteries in nearby North Highlands. (When I signed off of the group shortly after getting our Leaf, the hope was that owners would be soon be able to deal directly with the battery folks.)

Edited to clarify comment that battery refresh is only for original models.

 

[TonyWilliams]

...snip... and i guess my other issue would be, what happens i buy this from CA, bring it back to GA, who can fix it? lol?

For several years I lurked on the Rav4-EV users group. Folks outside the official lease and sales areas are on their own to solve EV-specific problems. That's where the group comes in with tips, photos, DIY improvements, replacement charging system capacitors, etc.. Those wanting a battery refresh have to ship their cars to a dealer in the Sacramento area, who in turn takes them to the sole source for batteries in nearby North Highlands. (When I signed off of the group shortly after getting our Leaf, the hope was that owners would be soon be able to deal directly with the battery folks.)

You're talking about the original Rav4 EV, right?

I have no idea where I would get a new Tesla battery pack for my Rav4.

 

[TonyWilliams]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are made in North America 2T= Canada
6 and 7 are made in Oceania
8 and 9 are made in South America

Yours was assembled in Canada, right?

If so, it is made in... North America.

Unrelated, while digging around, I found the Emergency Response Guide (ERG) for the current Rav4 EV. Not sure if it's been posted yet.
https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/rav4ev2nd.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, all the second generation Rav4 EV's are built in Ontario, Canada (thanks to a generous multi-million dollar handout) and the VIN reflects Canada (2T)

Good find on the emergency response stuff.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

...snip... and i guess my other issue would be, what happens i buy this from CA, bring it back to GA, who can fix it? lol?

For several years I lurked on the Rav4-EV users group. Folks outside the official lease and sales areas are on their own to solve EV-specific problems. That's where the group comes in with tips, photos, DIY improvements, replacement charging system capacitors, etc.. Those wanting a battery refresh have to ship their cars to a dealer in the Sacramento area, who in turn takes them to the sole source for batteries in nearby North Highlands. (When I signed off of the group shortly after getting our Leaf, the hope was that owners would be soon be able to deal directly with the battery folks.)

You're talking about the original Rav4 EV, right?

I have no idea where I would get a new Tesla battery pack for my Rav4.

Correct. I was speaking specifically of the original model, not the new Tesla edition. As I left the group, many of the Rav's were going to new owners and being replaced by Leafs. BatteryMD was the Toyota holder for Panasonic batteries recovered from lease returns, and I believe, many parts unique to the original Rav4-EV.

 

[Ingineer]

I suspect the problem with the Nissan-Panasonic EVSE is it's lack of -12v in the Pilot, but it could also be timing. I'd have to have someone come by with one in order to test.

Also, keep in mind the lower efficiency is also due to Tesla's use of an AC Induction motor. It's not as efficient.

-Phil

 

[cwerdna]

Good find on the emergency response stuff.

Thanks. One can find the rest for Toyota's hybrids/PHEVs and EVs at https://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/erg.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Click on ">>Emergency Response & Hybrid Information" near the bottom.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I suspect the problem with the Nissan-Panasonic EVSE is it's lack of -12v in the Pilot, but it could also be timing. I'd have to have someone come by with one in order to test.

Also, keep in mind the lower efficiency is also due to Tesla's use of an AC Induction motor. It's not as efficient.

-Phil

Wow, didn't see that coming! I would expect Tesla to use "the best". Something makes a LOT of noise in the AM radio band. Inverter or motor. When coasting, noise goes away. And then there's the gearbox noises.

Nissan did way better here.

 

[Zythryn]

Interesting, the Roadster had a similar issue with the AM band. No issue what so ever with the Model S.
I suspect this is something Toyota can address, surprised they haven't.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Today's Rav4 EV nit.

Note the intelligently positioned blind nuts for a trailer hitch on a 2012 Rav4 V6 (disregard big exhaust pipe for carbon and particulate emissions not needed on EV):

Now note the threaded nuts are missing on the Rav4 EV, but only on this side of the car. The nuts are in place on the left side. Also note that the exhaust pipe hangar mounting bracket is still in place.

 

[TonyWilliams]

 

[TonyWilliams]

 

[Ingineer]

Looks just like the heater used in the Leaf.

-Phil

 

[waidy]

Looks just like the heater used in the Leaf.

-Phil

I am disappointed that the 2012/3 Rav4-EV does not use heat pump :-(

 

[Ingineer]

I also notice a "take off" for the refrigerant lines, presumably so the A/C compressor can cool the pack. It's clear it can heat it with up to 6kW as well. Yes, a Heat pump would have been nice, but keep in mind, they wanted to do the minimum of engineering for a compliance car.

Shocked that the brake fluid is already that discolored! I wonder how long the gliders have been sitting around before Tesla got around to them?

Tony, the AM noise is likely the inverter. An EV is a really hostile electrical environment, it's difficult to provide solid AM reception in one.

-Phil

 

[TomT]

Considering how limited the run of RAV4 EVs is going to be, and the generally temperate climate where it is being sold, they probably decided it wasn't worth the cost...

I am disappointed that the 2012/3 Rav4-EV does not use heat pump :-(

 

[GRA]

I suspect the problem with the Nissan-Panasonic EVSE is it's lack of -12v in the Pilot, but it could also be timing. I'd have to have someone come by with one in order to test.

Also, keep in mind the lower efficiency is also due to Tesla's use of an AC Induction motor. It's not as efficient.

-Phil

Wow, didn't see that coming! I would expect Tesla to use "the best". Something makes a LOT of noise in the AM radio band. Inverter or motor. When coasting, noise goes away. And then there's the gearbox noises.

Nissan did way better here.

So, anyone know why Tesla opted for AC (induction) rather than DC PM? Was it to keep dependence on Chinese-sourced rare earths to a minimum, a holdover from Alex Cocconi days, or ?

I'm a big fan of not replacing a dependency on OPEC with a dependency on the PRC, although to some certain extent we may become dependent on a future OLEC depending on how lithium exploration goes. At least we're on good terms with Chile, Australia, Brazil and Canada and adequate with Argentina, if not so good with Bolivia, variable with China, and bad with others. Still, we do have decent lithium resources in the U.S., but how much of that can be turned into reserves remains to be seen. See

http://www.eenews.net/assets/2011/07/27/document_gw_02.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[palmermd]

Here is the reason....

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Zythryn]

Here is the reason....

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good read, thanks!

 

[tbleakne]

Here is the reason....

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good read, thanks!

+1. Wally Rippel was the speaker at an EVAOSC meeting in Diamond Bar last year. A very impressive engineer who has been in on the key developments in EV starting with the EV1. The above is dated 2007.

The DC brushless motor, with permanent magnets, is not always the most efficient because of higher eddy-current losses when high-torque motors are operated under low-torque conditions.

In contrast, induction machines have no magnets and B fields are “adjustable,” since B is proportionate to V/f (voltage to frequency). This means that at light loads the inverter can reduce voltage such that magnetic losses are reduced and efficiency is maximized. Thus, the induction machine when operated with a smart inverter has an advantage over a DC brushless machine – magnetic and conduction losses can be traded such that efficiency is optimized. This advantage becomes increasingly important as performance is increased. With DC brushless, as machine size grows, the magnetic losses increase proportionately and part load efficiency drops. With induction, as machine size grows, losses do not necessarily grow. Thus, induction drives may be the favored approach where high-performance is desired; peak efficiency will be a little less than with DC brushless, but average efficiency may actually be better.

Tesla was really driven to an induction motor design because of their insistence on insanely high peak torque performance, but as rare earth availability becomes critical, it is nice to know that induction motors for more more modest sizes can be done with only modest average performance penalty.

So is the RAV4 EV motor efficiency really lower under low-torque level driving conditions, far below the maximum torque the motor can deliver in a Model-S ? Perhaps a smaller motor would do better, but it was much cheaper to re-use the Model-S design of motor and inverter for both cars.