Public charging etiquette for businesses

[Pipcecil]

Here in Texas its rare to see any of our local public chargers with another plug-in attached to it. More often than not, the places are iced if anything is there.

My question comes to the etiquette for businesses with public chargers. This questions is more geared to ones at businesses versus those in parking lots of shopping centers, but it could apply to those too.

Is it proper to pull into a public EVSE at a place of business to only walk to another place (i.e. I park at a mcdonalds and walk across the street to wendy's or a grocery store, etc.)? Do you feel the need to purchase something from those places of business for use of their EVSE (even though the evse is free)? For those businesses that are located with more quick-turnover (say a fast food place), is it proper to park there for multiple hours as you watch a movie at the theater close by (can this be off-set by buying something there) when the places itself usually only sees spots occupied, at most, for 30 minutes? Finally, for fast chargers, you are usually waiting for the car to "fill-up" instead of going somewhere or shopping, do you think its proper to purchase something that has hosted that QC?

Is the situation different if the charging was required to get back home? What if the trip was planned that way (i.e. I could have taken the second car, but choose the leaf and need to charge to get back home)? How about its more of a convienent charge (I don't need it to get home, but the extra electrons are nice!)?

Just wanted everyone's opinions.

 

[lpickup]

Great question! I was in a situation where I kind of needed a charge for about an hour, and the nearest station as at a McDonalds. It was lunch time but there is nothing at McDonalds that I would eat, so I walked to a neighboring business to get a sandwich. I did feel somewhat guilty, kind of like going into a McDonalds or gas station to use the rest room and feeling like you have to buy something.

I did end up buying a Shamrock Shake from the McDonalds, which I'm sure still netted them a handy profit even after the 40 cents of electricity that I used.

 

[garygid]

What is effective Signage?

If the Charging Location is sign posted "For Customer Use Only", would you pay attention to the sign?

If it was posted "ICEs will be Towed", would they still park there, hoping to get back before the tow truck arrived?

If the sign said "For Customer-On-Site Actively-Charging Only, Others might be Towed", would you risk going to a nearby movie?

Is the threat of Towing necessary if there is no effective way to issue expensive "illegal parking" tickets?

 

[EricBayArea]

I am guilty of doing this. I parked my car at an Ikea one time to charge while I went to the movies that was on the other side of the Ikea. I did not shop at the Ikea that time, but have in the past.

I have also parked at a Whole Foods, walked over to Peet's Coffee and studded for an hour an a half, then stopped into Whole Foods, grabbed lunch and ate it there, then unplugged and left. I did not feel guilty about that.

On the other hand, I have pulled my ICE car into a gas station and used the air to fill my tires when the sign says "for customers only" at times where I was not refueling. However, I did not feel guilty because it happened to be at a station that I typically frequent. So although I was not a customer of their fuel that day, I am on a regular basis.

I guess I can sort of relate this the Ikea situation - I did not buy anything that time but it is the Ikea I will shop at when I need something. Also, knowing the chargers are there and that I may use them when I'm in that area, I am more likely to impulse buy something because I'm parked there.

 

[lpickup]

If there were meaningful signs, I would probably honor them. The best I've seen is simply "EV Charging Only" or something to that effect. I would tend to do this even if the threat of towing was not present, just out of respect for the host.

Having said that, I also don't think the hosts are generally going to be super heavy handed about their signage (and enforcing it) until they start getting complaints about lack of availability of the spots, and this includes the spots being ICEd.

 

[Pipcecil]

Oh one more situation to add: EVSE's at a government facility...can you park there and then go to a movie, eat, etc.?

Here in DFW the signage is universal and simple:

a small blue sign with a gas station with a plug (almost exactly like the nissan leaf icon next to the fuel bars). No other signage is usually present.

Blink sticks with just this basic signing. ChargePoint strips off the area in green and has another sign posted that says "EV parking only", which usually deters most ICE, but it is never attached to the business it sits around. Two at the Dallas City Hall (aerovironment ones) say ev parking only, others will be towed underneath, again no mention of business only at the city hall. eVgo's system (which is paid for montly) has pressure plates that if you are not pluged in but in that spot, it calls a tow truck (and also if you are DC charging for more than one hour). The ONLY one I know of is a set of apartments that have 3 chargepoint charges and they say (ONLY on chargepoint's website) of preference for residences, but its not signed that way and its only a preference.

If signing said for customers only I would probably avoid it unless I was desperate for a charge (and then I would probably buy something or ask the manager).

 

[TRONZ]

If an EVSE has been specifically installed by a business, I will not plug into it unless I have business there. The two closest EVSE's installed by business's nearby are Walgreens and Kohls. I could not help but notice that they have sited their EVSE's as far away from the other stores as they could. Allllllll the way at the end around the corner at the local Walgreens. Pretty easy body language to read and what they expect of users.

 

[edatoakrun]

<Shamseless plug alert>

While driving home from the Bay Area to Shasta County Last May, I stopped for a 4+ hour L2 charge at Sierra Nevada Brewery, in Chico, California.

I had a long drive home ahead of me (the last 90 miles of 240+ that day, all on L2), so I didn't want to drink at the pub, and the retail store at the brewery site closed, before I could pick up a case, to go.

But SNB may have noticed a bump, in regional retail sales, ever since.

With all the money I save on gas, I feel that I can now afford premium "alternative fuel" purchases.

Just another advantage, to being a BEV driver.

BTW, I suggest you try their new "Ruthless Rye".

 

[coqui]

Seems to me if a business goes to the trouble of installing a charger, I'd respect that, purchase something from them, and say thanks to the shop owner/mgr. Of course that's here in NC where public chargers are few and far between....

After all they probably saw it as an opportunity to attract more customers. Now, if the charging price was high - no - I would not feel compelled to purchase from that business.

 

[DesertDenizen]

If an EVSE has been specifically installed by a business, I will not plug into it unless I have business there. The two closest EVSE's installed by business's nearby are Walgreens and Kohls. I could not help but notice that they have sited their EVSE's as far away from the other stores as they could. Allllllll the way at the end around the corner at the local Walgreens. Pretty easy body language to read and what they expect of users.

The Kohls by me did the same. They get a 'namaste' from me though, they have four Blinks in a row.

 

[JPWhite]

I've done this several times. Either to go next door, or sometimes simply to go for a walk to get my exercise while my car charges.

While the charging is free in this EV project area, I do feel somewhat guilty taking advantage, but once a fee is levied for use of the charger I will be released from guilt. I've rationalized that I'm simply paying zero each time I scan my RFID card, like getting a free e-book from Amazon, one simply checks out with a zero balance.

The businesses in our area got the charger supplied and installed for free and I understand the EV project reimburses them their electric until charges are introduced later this year.

Once more businesses get chargers, the need to hijack a charger will diminish. It's not like they get a lot of use anyway, I'm not depriving a store patron, the charger next to my vehicle always stays open.

Thanks for raising the question. Interesting outcome from the deployment of these chargers.

 

[KeiJidosha]

I do a lot of public opportunity charging. And, like you, want to pay my way. The reality is the density of charge sites is insufficient to allow you to dependably charge where you do business. When charge sites are ubiquitous, and bill you directly, that will be easier. I try to do some business in the neighborhood, and have, for instance, donated to book clubs at libraries’ hosting chargers (surprisingly many). But many sites will refuse if I offer to pay/donate for the charge, and I can only leave my thanks. I leave my cell number on the car dash so others needing a charge can get hold of me, and I post reviews on charge site aggregators to let other EV’rs know the site works. And my car shows the sites are needed, useful, and can attract customers.

 

[lpickup]

The other thing is that I figure you can't get a meaningful charge at a McDonalds. Granted, I'm sure the manager/franchisee probably doesn't understand this, but in my mind it's almost like you are EXPECTED to do something else while you wait for a charge.

I would feel differently (and do) at a shopping center or store where you can get a meaningful charge at the particular store, and do usually go inside to patronize the store.

 

[Herm]

The other thing is that I figure you can't get a meaningful charge at a McDonalds.

Lots of Mcdonalds are trying to do a starbucks thing.. McCafe, with free internet, TV, nice decor and coffee refills.. just dont ask for a whopper at the counter. By the time you check your newspapers and the forum you just wasted 2 hours.

 

[lpickup]

Lots of Mcdonalds are trying to do a starbucks thing.. McCafe, with free internet, TV, nice decor and coffee refills.. just dont ask for a whopper at the counter. By the time you check your newspapers and the forum you just wasted 2 hours.

Very good point. Not the case with this McDonalds, but I could definitely see that being the case at a McCafe. That reminds me, I haven't had coffee yet this morning...gotta run!

 

[hill]

If an EVSE has been specifically installed by a business, I will not plug into it unless I have business there. The two closest EVSE's installed by business's nearby are Walgreens and Kohls. I could not help but notice that they have sited their EVSE's as far away from the other stores as they could. Allllllll the way at the end around the corner at the local Walgreens. Pretty easy body language to read and what they expect of users.

There are now a couple walgreens with L2 plugs on site. Although my purpose may be to go into 'Sprouts' ... then into Ace hardware ... then go into the Yogurt shop for a large pistachio - afterwards, I will STILL hit the Walgreens and find SOMETHING to buy there. Last time? Jimmy Dean Breakfast Bowel. Gotta love their 'Last-Chance' markdown, from $2.99 to only 75¢ !!
I don't know how they do it ~ but I bought all of 'em ... + I'd picked up about 5kWh by the time I'd unplugged from the chargepoint.

 

[Pipcecil]

I realized that although I posted the question, I didn't post how i handled it :shock:

Usually I try and purchase something from the place in question, even if its a cheap item. Stations located in large shopping areas I don't feel as much of a need to shop in the center as much as if the spots were tied to a specific business. My hardest occurances is when the charger is located at a restaraunt (and usually right up front!) and I am not there to eat (maybe I was shopping or going to another restaruant). Its more difficult to frequent that place than say walgreens or something. When I use the only QC here in DFW, its at a walgreens and always end up getting some ice cream or coke or something. Part of that has to due with the 20 or so minute wait. I will say I have been guilty of parking at a city hall (cedar hill for those that live in DFW) and walking across the street to watch a movie . But its hard to always have "business" at a city hall and you can't buy anything from them (FYI they installed 4 chargers!). I have left my car pluged into a business before for multiple hours while I hitched a ride with my sister to go visit family, and I did talk it over with the manager and he was just fine with the situation.

As for the cost, I know, for sure, on Blink, the unit is free and installation is free. Electricity is NOT free (its paid by the business). I don't know when they start charging how that revenue is divided up (will the business get some revenue? will electricity be free for the business then?). I know ChargePoint's system has more ownership than Blinks (but I am unsure how they handle everything). Because eVgo is getting monthly payments from the EV owners, I am assuming all cost associated with the EVSEs (including the QCs) are covered by eVgo, including electricity (so essentially that walgreens isn't loosing anything besides a few parking spots it never needed).

I have found most places to be very accomodating. The owners/managers seem more excited the stations are getting used. I had an incident going to a large outdoor mall/theater area near downtown and was definetely going to need a charge to get home (the sudden rain that day killed my range...I was just going to use it for convienence at first). The garage there had two Blinks on the top level, all iced. The valet parking had 2 blinks as well (the valet parking is very small fyi). The valet people were so very nice and let us take one of the charger spots free of charge (they usually just pack it with ICEs). They were all so excited about their first vehicle to plug in there. I tipped them very graciously since the charge gave me more than enough to get home after our movie.

 

[lpickup]

I will say I have been guilty of parking at a city hall (cedar hill for those that live in DFW) and walking across the street to watch a movie . But its hard to always have "business" at a city hall and you can't buy anything from them (FYI they installed 4 chargers!).

I would say that the city installed the chargers there as a service to the citizens (and more cynically because they had some statute that said they had to install chargers in city/state-owned property). I would think it was perfectly acceptable for you to use a charging station in that fashion.

They were all so excited about their first vehicle to plug in there. I tipped them very graciously since the charge gave me more than enough to get home after our movie.