Range question

[garygid]

I thought you accidently typed 3 kWh / mi
Sorry, either you fixed it, or I misread it.

 

[DaveEV]

Is there something wrong with the way drees stated it?

Yeah, I was backwards - I edited it after gary pointed out my type-o.

 

[Jimmydreams]

If anyone is interested, I'm posting a spreadsheet of my daily drive, how many miles, average mi/kW, how many kWh go into the EVSE each night, etc.

Enjoy.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...SzdvazBlNHRlZDNDY2VRUlFfNkE&hl=en&output=html

Very interesting data. A few comments on correlation, or lack thereof. I am having trouble getting your data into my speadsheet, so pardon my formatting.

"bars remaining" at destination =2:
EVSE kwh 18.9, 22.1, 25.5
bars=4:
EVSE kwh 18.9

Any thoughts about why these don't correlate very well ? It would seem you really don't have a very accurate reading of how much battery charge you have left. A little scary.

Have you tried charging to 80% ?
How convenient or inconvenient is it to charge to say 90% ? Would you have to control it via charging time? I would like to have that flexibility to maximize battery life on shorter trips.

I haven't tried 80% because it pretty much won't work for me and my commute.

As to the inconsistancies in the # of bars left vs kWh going into the car, I'll check my paper against what I entered into the spreadsheet....I may have made a mistake. But keep in mind. 2 bars might mean "just under 3 bars" or it could mean "a hair over 1 bar"....whatever formula Nissan uses to display or remove a bar is the key. Is there enough slop in there to account for the various kWh entries for charging? (shrug) I am starting to use the % charge remaining listed on Carwings. I wasn't paying much attention to it before.

I'll see if I can't clean up the spreadsheets to display one entry per day showing total miles, and % charge remaining for the day. It might be easier to read that way.

 

[planet4ever]

I am starting to use the % charge remaining listed on Carwings.

In my opinion it's better to use number of bars. That way it is obvious it is an approximation. If you use % it looks like it is more precise but, as we have discovered, it really isn't. They are just taking the bar count and converting it to a percentage.

 

[evnow]

If anyone is interested, I'm posting a spreadsheet of my daily drive, how many miles, average mi/kW, how many kWh go into the EVSE each night, etc.

Enjoy.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...SzdvazBlNHRlZDNDY2VRUlFfNkE&hl=en&output=html

How does the kwh delivered (using TED) compare to what carwings reports as the the kwh consumed ?

 

[Jimmydreams]

If anyone is interested, I'm posting a spreadsheet of my daily drive, how many miles, average mi/kW, how many kWh go into the EVSE each night, etc.

Enjoy.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...SzdvazBlNHRlZDNDY2VRUlFfNkE&hl=en&output=html

How does the kwh delivered (using TED) compare to what carwings reports as the the kwh consumed ?

No, it doesn't.

Carwings shows energy consumed which (I believe) takes the kWh burned from the battery and then subtracts any kW earned through regen. TED only shows kWh going to the EVSE, which includes any charging losses. TED will always show a higher number due to charging inefficiencies.

 

[KeiJidosha]

TED will also show energy used by the EVSE relay, for Battery balancing, Cabin Pre heat/cool, and (unless you have an SL sitting outside in the sun) power consumed by the carwings "phone/computer".

 

[evnow]

No, it doesn't.

Carwings shows energy consumed which (I believe) takes the kWh burned from the battery and then subtracts any kW earned through regen. TED only shows kWh going to the EVSE, which includes any charging losses. TED will always show a higher number due to charging inefficiencies.

True - but we know the difference will be in the region of about 10%. So if carwings says 6miles/kwh and TED shows 3 mpkwh, we know carwings is wrong. But if it shows 3.2mpkwh we would know they agree.

 

[planet4ever]

Carwings shows energy consumed which (I believe) takes the kWh burned from the battery and then subtracts any kW earned through regen. TED only shows kWh going to the EVSE, which includes any charging losses. TED will always show a higher number due to charging inefficiencies.

TED will also show energy used by the EVSE relay, for Battery balancing, Cabin Pre heat/cool, and (unless you have an SL sitting outside in the sun) power consumed by the carwings "phone/computer".

These two comments taken together raise the possibility of another important factor. Is Carwings counting all energy taken from the battery while you are driving, or only the energy going to the inverter/motor? Is energy used for heating and cooling the cabin being counted? How about energy for cooling the inverter and motor?

 

[garygid]

We could ask the guys that wrote the car and CARWINGS code.

Somebody has already talked to the company doing that work.

They might have made a programming mistake.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Carwings is supposed to tell you how efficiently you are driving and that does include regen.

so what is does is tracks the amount of charge used and divides it by the distance you travel.

so it does not count charging inefficiencies, but will penalize you if you preheat while not plugged in but not penalize you if you preheat while plugged into power since that would not be charge taken directly from the battery correct?

 

[garygid]

CARWINGS, to display a better number, MIGHT only count the energy going to the inverter to drive the motor, minus the total Regen energy even though not all of the Regen energy can be used later, AND not count the Climate or Other usage at all.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I've changed the spreadsheet so that it's a little easier to read. If I get some time, maybe I'll colorize things as well.

https://spreadsheets3.google.com/ccc?hl=en&key=tKaK7ok0e4ted3CceQRQ_6A&hl=en#gid=0

 

[EVDRIVER]

CARWINGS, to display a better number, MIGHT only count the energy going to the inverter to drive the motor, minus the total Regen energy even though not all of the Regen energy can be used later, AND not count the Climate or Other usage at all.

It should take the total consumption form the entire pack to be accurate and regen should offset that number like a reverse meter like solar, in the end there should be a net total consumption number for the entire pack and that would be the most accurate. It only makes sense to measure total pack kw that has "rolled back" a bit during regen. Chopping it up in pieces does not make sense. A total pack kw meter would move both ways.

 

[garygid]

I agree.
At the moment the LEAF shows us Traction, Climate, and Other kW.

It seems that CARWINGS reports Climate and Traction kWh.
Does it show the Other kWh, or total kWh also?

 

[wsbca]

It seems that CARWINGS reports Climate and Traction kWh.
Does it show the Other kWh, or total kWh also?

The veracity of its calculations aside, yes, Carwings shows "other" kWh. The
economy calculation is based on (traction usage - regen + other)/miles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I will use carwings for reference but afaic the only important thing is what it costs me to drive it. So I will continue to track the charge out of the wall

 

[corwin]

It sounds like you're starting in Santa Cruz, going up Hwy 1, then at the end climbing 92 to end at your workplace. Go home the opposite direction. Several days at work = fire dept. is my guess. Sounds like the husband of an ex-FBI agent I know, only I think he starts in Aptos. Anyway, I would be very leery about this if I have the scenario right. Hwy 92 is steep coming out of Half Moon Bay and you would be right at the limit of your charge. You don't want to be creeping with commute cars behind you. Is there a Nissan dealer selling the Leaf in either Half Moon Bay or Santa Cruz? You should definitely identify charging stations along the way before the first attempt and call ahead to make sure one is available if necessary.

I'm not a fireman, nor the husband of an ex-FBI agent. Heck, I don't even live in Aptos, but close. But the scenario is right. While I see no charging sites anywhere on my commute today, by the time my batteries deteriorate too much, there should be at least one along the route (Half Moon Bay would be about the only option). Prior to that point, I plan on carrying plenty of extension cord, charging to 100%, and keeping the climate control off.

If this route proves to be untenable, I do have a backup plan, but it's ugly.
-Corwin

 

[rmay635703]

I believe the OP should go to

ecomodder.com or cleanmpg.com and re-learn how to drive. (at least a different way)

With that type of commute I would be bleeding and gaining speed and avoiding regen except when absolutely necessary to control speed.

It is far more efficient to loose speed going up the hill maintaining a more or less constant amp draw then allow the car to freewheel back up to speed on the downward slope than it is to keep on trudging up full blast then regen all the way down.

Coasting is 100% efficient, regen is anywhere from 0% to maybe 80% efficient depending on how much, how long and at what rate.

Also allowing speed to bleed going up the hill is more efficient on the motor side and less stressfull on components. (less heat means more power to the wheels)

I agree with EVDriver, the leaf needs a diet, hopefully NIssan gives it a lot of thought and gets its nice EV on a nice diet for its 2nd edition, along with some nice aero mods to at least get its CD more in line with the current hybrid crowd. (these 2 items would greatly increase range without changing anything battery related and it would improve accel and overall performance)

My hope is to see Leafs become so popular that in a few years I might find one smashed up on a junkyard where I can borrow its power system for my 1200lb EV.

Good Luck to the OP and I do strongly recommend learning hypermiling techniques, you don't need to impliment all of them all the time but the more often you do the longer you can drive. I believe the record on the leaf is somewhere north of 130 miles on a charge,
food for thought for nay sayers, but it does take a great deal of concerted effort and re learning driving techniques. The added benefit of hypermiling is that his battery will age less slowly and live longer.

Cheers
Ryan

 

[planet4ever]

Coasting is 100% efficient,

Rubbish! Coasting could only be 100% efficient in a vacuum when there are no law enforcement officials or other cars around.

• The faster you coast the more energy you lose to air resistance.
• The faster you coast the more likely you are to have to stop to receive a ticket.
• The more you vary your speed the more you will anger other drivers, and the more likely they become to try to cut you off or even force you off the road.

Please note: I am not claiming that coasting uses more energy than regen. I am only saying that in a real world nothing is 100% efficient. My personal opinion is that coasting is unsafe, illegal, and antisocial, but wastes less energy than regen.