Ready to buy

[r1234567]

I'm ready to buy and saw one of my local dealers has an SL with the premium package and floor mats. I really don't care about the mats but I haven't seen a Leaf without them. MSRP is $36,910.

What is a fair price and how is the best way to negotiate for it? Should I try the Costco buying route?

What about extended warranties?

 

[davewill]

In this car, you NEED the mats so you might as well go with them. The carpet is so thin it's not funny. As far as the extended warranty goes, I'm not a fan, but some people are. More importantly, though, is NOT to buy the warranty along with the car. You've got plenty of time to buy it, so go online later and shop around for the best deal on the extended warranty. If you buy it with the car, it just becomes another detail for them to use to take extra money from you.

 

[r1234567]

Thank you, it sounds like this car is what I should get. Now I just need to figure out how to get the best price and determine what that price is.

 

[Reddy]

Thank you, it sounds like this car is what I should get. Now I just need to figure out how to get the best price and determine what that price is.

Check out the leasing thread. Also, since you're in Chicago, you should read some cold weather threads to make sure your commute is compatible. Good luck with your decision: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11506#p265550

 

[ksnogas2112]

@r1234567 if you plan on purchasing, double check your finances. If you're not going to be close to the $7500 tax credit you may want to consider leasing to get the full tax credit since NMAC passes on the full value of the credit. Also, on the cold weather front (pardon pun) you will want charging opportunities if you need to go more than 40-50 miles between charges in the winter with heat running. If you're in the west or north of Chicago there are plenty of public charging. Things get thinner south of I-88. But dang, there are 14 DCFC in the general Chicago area.

 

[r1234567]

Reddy - My husband's commute is 11 miles each way. It will be kept in our garage overnight and it will be out in the elements during the day. If it's really cold out, he can always take my car. Additionally, if he needs to go a far distance, we can trade cars.

I've never leased or financed a car before so I was just going to buy it. While leasing will give me the federal credit up front, I'll lose the IL credit, assuming there are funds left. I always thought leasing was a more expensive way to get into a car so I'm a little weary unless there is something obvious I'm missing.

 

[r1234567]

ksnogas2112 - Sadly, our tax liability is much higher than the $7,500 tax credit. If I lease, I'm not eligible for the IL funds (if they are still there) so I don't really see the advantage unless there is something I'm missing. My friend just got a Volt and he said that IL told him there is still funding.

I'm impressed you know Chicagoland living in KS. I live in the northwest suburbs and I think I saw a charging station at Walgreen's. I'm not sure if it works and I think Whole Foods has one that I read is also inactive. This will be primarily my husband's car for work and he's 11 miles each way. If the weather is an issue or he needs to go further, we will swap cars.

 

[ksnogas2112]

ksnogas2112 - Sadly, our tax liability is much higher than the $7,500 tax credit. If I lease, I'm not eligible for the IL funds (if they are still there) so I don't really see the advantage unless there is something I'm missing. My friend just got a Volt and he said that IL told him there is still funding.

I'm impressed you know Chicagoland living in KS. I live in the northwest suburbs and I think I saw a charging station at Walgreen's. I'm not sure if it works and I think Whole Foods has one that I read is also inactive. This will be primarily my husband's car for work and he's 11 miles each way. If the weather is an issue or he needs to go further, we will swap cars.

http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

shows the whole foods with a dcqc

 

[cgaydos]

What is a fair price and how is the best way to negotiate for it? Should I try the Costco buying route?

I always suggest sending emails to the internet departments of area dealerships - then compare prices. When you feel you are ready to pull the trigger ask them to send you in email a copy of the contract - that prevents last minute surprise fees.

In Chicagoland Evanston Nissan seems to be really pushing the LEAF more than other local Nissan dealers - they seem based on their internet presence most likely to deal, but you never know until you send out the emails asking for quotes. Interestingly Continental Nissan still has a *new* 2011 on the lot for $24k - you could probably get that for $20k and then claim the fed and state credits (but definitely check that the state credit still applies).

 

[QueenBee]

What about extended warranties?

There are other threads on this but the gist of it is do NOT buy it from the dealership when you are buying your car. Kindly ask for their best price and then compare that to the online prices that you research when you get home. You also don't have to buy it right away. You can wait until closer to the expiration of the original warranty. Only get a Nissan OEM warranty.

 

[planet4ever]

I've never leased or financed a car before so I was just going to buy it. While leasing will give me the federal credit up front, I'll lose the IL credit, assuming there are funds left. I always thought leasing was a more expensive way to get into a car so I'm a little weary unless there is something obvious I'm missing.

The 10% IL rebate is indeed an argument for purchasing rather than leasing. But there are some good arguments on the other side, as well.

• In most cases new cars are not good investments. They tend to lose up to a third of their value in the first two years. Since you are thinking of paying cash, consider what other things you could do with that cash that might increase its value rather than reduce it. Conservatively managed stock funds come to mind.
• If you were considering financing the car, the monthly payments on a loan this size are quite high. And in the first two years of the loan you are mostly paying interest, so not accumulating any significant ownership value.
• Nissan is currently pushing leases so much that you are likely to pay half or less as much money monthly on a lease as you would on a financed purchase. No, you won't own the car at the end of a two-year lease, but you wouldn't after two years of purchase payments either.
• You have an option at the end of the lease to either buy the car at a price set when you start the lease or to walk away. If the market price for a two-year-old LEAF is above that set price, you can buy, then resell, and come out ahead. If the market price is lower, you can walk. So it's a completely safe gamble - you either win or come out even.
• On all these points I know you are arguing back that you keep your cars for a lot longer than two years, and that does make a big difference in the way you need to look at things. But these aren't the same-old cars we've been driving for the last century. Electrics are evolving and improving very rapidly. Driving a 2013 LEAF ten years from now will probably be quite analogous to using a 2003 computer today. Yes, the computer may still work, but it won't be able to run much of the more recent software, and it will seem very slow and clumsy.
• Finally, there is the issue of the battery. Nissan will keep it going for five years without losing much more than 30% of its range, but after that you are on your own. And all we know about battery costs right now is that they will probably be between $5,000 and $15,000. Chicago summers and Chicago winters will both take their toll on the battery; not as much as Phoenix, but enough that I wouldn't expect you to get much more than five years out of it. If you lease, the degraded battery is Nissan's problem.

Ray

 

[abasile]

Chicago summers and Chicago winters will both take their toll on the battery; not as much as Phoenix, but enough that I wouldn't expect you to get much more than five years out of it.

That seems awfully pessimistic given that the intended use is for an 11 mile commute. For that purpose, the battery might be good for upwards of 10-20 years in Chicago. The caveat is that no one has had a LEAF for that many years to know for sure. But Li-ion batteries in other applications have been known to last many years if cared for properly (avoid heat, and don't let the battery sit at a high or low state of charge for a long time).

If in IL the cost of leasing is effectively several thousand more than paying cash, that seems like a steep price to pay. I still have a "dumb" cell phone, so I'm not sure I buy into the idea of changing cars like cell phones, even electric cars. That said, I do want to buy a Tesla X with AWD! The fiscal conservative in me would wait and buy a used one, though.

 

[planet4ever]

Chicago summers and Chicago winters will both take their toll on the battery; not as much as Phoenix, but enough that I wouldn't expect you to get much more than five years out of it.

That seems awfully pessimistic given that the intended use is for an 11 mile commute. For that purpose, the battery might be good for upwards of 10-20 years in Chicago.

You could be right. She did say 11 miles each way, which would add up to maybe 30K miles in five years assuming they didn't use it for anything else. My bet is that they will want to use it on weekends. She also said it would be outside during the day, which includes quite a few 90F+ summer days in Chicago. Can we compromise on "slightly pessimistic"?

Ray

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's always been a given that leasing is more expensive than buying. But when we leased our 2010 Prius, the market for them was depressed and we got a deal similar to the great leases Nissan is (or just was) offering. Our buy back price is below market value, so when we buy it in the fall at the end of lease, we will have paid not one cent more than we would have if we'd bought it new, with payments spread out a lot more. It will be like getting an interest-free loan for 8 years, since we'll be self-financing the purchase. So consider that if you can get a great lease deal, with a good end of lease purchase price, you might do better, and end up buying the car at the "used" price, but with you having taken care of it since it was new...

 

[QueenBee]

It's always been a given that leasing is more expensive than buying. But when we leased our 2010 Prius, the market for them was depressed and we got a deal similar to the great leases Nissan is (or just was) offering. Our buy back price is below market value, so when we buy it in the fall at the end of lease, we will have paid not one cent more than we would have if we'd bought it new, with payments spread out a lot more. It will be like getting an interest-free loan for 8 years, since we'll be self-financing the purchase. So consider that if you can get a great lease deal, with a good end of lease purchase price, you might do better, and end up buying the car at the "used" price, but with you having taken care of it since it was new...

Paying cash to buy the car after the lease isn't like an interest free loan and you paid interest during the lease. Also there are generally fees to get the lease and at least with the NMAC leases the interest rates are higher than what you can get elsewhere.

Also, I don't think you fully understand the math behind a lease regarding your comment "with a good end of lease purchase price, you might do better, and end up buying the car at the "used" price, but with you having taken care of it since it was new"

The math behind a lease is basically x purchase price - y buy price at the end of less = depreciation. During the lease you pay monthly payments which cover the depreciation and essentially interest on the remaining amount "owed" which is the remaining depreciation + the end of lease purchase price.

I don't know how Toyota's interest rates are but if they are like NMACs you did in fact pay more because didn't get the best interest rate compared to if you purchased and financed it through a bank with great rates. You also likely paid a lease fee for the privilege of leasing.

The main difference between purchasing and leasing is that you have an agreed upon price to walk away from the car at the end of the lease which if the residual percent is calculated fairly should be about what the car is worth.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Our total lease payments, plus down payment (part of which Toyota paid), plus the end of lease purchase price (which we will be self-financing from savings that earn virtually zero percent interest) all add up to... the purchase price of the car at the time we leased it, pretty much exactly. Make of that what you will.

 

[QueenBee]

Our total lease payments, plus down payment (part of which Toyota paid), plus the end of lease purchase price (which we will be self-financing from savings that earn virtually zero percent interest) all add up to... the purchase price of the car at the time we leased it, pretty much exactly. Make of that what you will.

What was the money factor and acquisition fee?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Didn't calculate the money factor, all the fees are included in the calculations, and the price still, after a recalculation, comes out to a bit *less* than the sticker price at the time we leased it. The car had $1k of options that we got almost free. Will get almost free, rather - the lease ends in September and we'll be buying it then. It was the best deal Toyota ever offered on the car, and will probably remain so. Just goes to show you that every rule has its exceptions.

 

[QueenBee]

Didn't calculate the money factor, all the fees are included in the calculations, and the price still, after a recalculation, comes out to a bit *less* than the sticker price at the time we leased it. The car had $1k of options that we got almost free. Will get almost free, rather - the lease ends in September and we'll be buying it then. It was the best deal Toyota ever offered on the car, and will probably remain so. Just goes to show you that every rule has its exceptions.

Money factor is not a calculation. So how much was your money factor and lease acquisition fee?

What do you mean by sticker price? Is that the MSRP or your cap cost?

 

[Reddy]

Reddy - My husband's commute is 11 miles each way. It will be kept in our garage overnight and it will be out in the elements during the day. If it's really cold out, he can always take my car. Additionally, if he needs to go a far distance, we can trade cars.

Excellent! You're approved! You'll love having a garaged, pre-warmed (by timer) EV ready to leave every AM. With such a short commute, you can use the L1 (12 amp, 120 VAC) EVSE that comes with the car. Set the timer to charge about 4-8 hrs (summer-winter) per night (only charging to 80%) and it should keep the battery in the best charge range (20-80%). Override and charge to 100% once in a while, say on the weekends, and enjoy for longer trips.

I've never leased or financed a car before so I was just going to buy it. While leasing will give me the federal credit up front, I'll lose the IL credit, assuming there are funds left. I always thought leasing was a more expensive way to get into a car so I'm a little weary unless there is something obvious I'm missing.

Leasing makes more sense in hotter climates and if you use the full 15,000 mi. Since you have a shorter commute and colder climate, buying is probably better as long as you plan to keep the car more than a couple of years. I also bought and plan to keep for 20 yrs since my commute is only 8 mi RT. My other "new" car is 20 yrs old, 165,000 mi and still runs just fine. I probably should have waited 2 yrs and bought a used Leaf, but hey, if nobody buys new, then the manufactures think there is no demand. Since you are in a colder climate with a shorter commute, your Leaf should also last for 20 yr and 150,000 mi (unless the road salt rusts it out first). One forum member is over 80,000 mi in two years and has only lost about 15% of the battery capacity. I figure 50-70% loss in 20 yr will still give me enough to cruise around town.

EDIT: Others have very good advice. Yes, definitely think about where you spend your money. I decided to support the EV industry and our local renewable energy (hydro, wind, solar) instead sending my money to people who dig up dead dinosaurs half way around the world.

Again, if you plan to switch to a new car in the next couple of years, then leasing is probably better because of "future" technological improvements. However, if your other car will need to be replaced in 5 yr, then you can hedge your bets, buy the Leaf for shorter trips, and then buy another longer range EV in 2020. Driving an EV is infectious. Expect to want another one in the future or at least negotiate with your spouse to get your own EV driving days. We have many multi-EV families on the forum.

I would also get the 2013 (SL or SV with 6 KW L2 charger and possibly ChaDemo DCQC "quick charger"). Don't get the 2013 S model or the older 2011 due to the less efficient heater and/or lack of cold weather package. You don't "need" the 6 KW charger since your daily commute will work with just the L1. However, having the ability to L2 or QC charge more quickly when away from home will extend the range to the point where even 100 mi per trips are easy even in the winter (2 hr charging at dinner, movie, play, concert, etc. will nearly fill half the battery with the 6 KW charger). Heck, even a 1/2 hr stop at Walgreens might be worth it.