Reducing maintenance costs - avoid gouging

[ytrottier]

I think I just got gouged on the first maintenance on my 2016 Leaf at 25,000 km / 7 months at a Nissan dealership in Canada. I figured I would share my experience so other can compare or learn from it. Please share your own, or offer your advice.

Here was my $415.22 bill:

• $0.00 Maintenance lube, oil & filer and perform multi-point inspection
• $0.00 Tire Rotation (Check remaining brake wear)
• $31.50 Reset tire pressure monitor system
• $170.79 Brake Maintenance, cleaner, Sylglide & Antiseize
• $90.38 Cabin air filter replacement
• $38.04 Battery service and test, battery cleaner/sealer
• $31.50 Battery service and test
• $0.00 Provide customer with batter test print out
• $0.00 Service Loaner rental
• $5.25 Environmental fee
• $47.76 taxes

Let's break that down.

$0.00 Maintenance lube, oil & filer and perform multi-point inspection
Good start. Good thing they didn't charge me for oil & filter since there is none. To be fair, I think the inspection has value, and that helps partly compensate for the gouging later on. But I think this was also a marketing trick, to butter me up with good deals at the start before sucking me in.

$0.00 Tire Rotation (Check remaining brake wear)
Good deal. Not essential, but can't argue with the price. In my experience, a good dealer will give you an actual measurement, in mm, of your tread depth. Didn't get that here.

$31.50 Reset tire pressure monitor system
I asked for this, because I had bolted on my summer tires myself. They hadn't included ant cost for this in the quote, so I thought they were agreeing to do this for free with the tire rotation. It's a bit rude to surprise your customer with a charge, but I'm not upset yet. A tire rotation alone might cost around the same, and that was free, so it's evening out so far. You can buy an OBDII gadget for your phone for about the same price and do this yourself, and that's what I'll do next time. Or you can just ignore the TPMS indicator, but I think it's a useful safety feature.

$170.79 Brake Maintenance, cleaner, Sylglide & Antiseize
This was the baffling WTF item. Why do I need $170.79 of brake maintenance at 25,000 km on a car with regenerative braking? Other people on this forum have expressed the same bewilderment:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17756
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21882
Brakes are the last system I want to save money on, so I went and paid it, but after some research I think I goofed. Let me summarize the arguments for and against.

The 2016 Leaf owner's guide does say to replace the brake fluid every 24,000 km or 12 months, even as part of the standard schedule, not for severe use. Nissan says that short interval is needed because the car uses regenerative braking, but it's hard to make any sense of that: regenerative braking reduces the wear on traditional braking system. My Prius has a brake fluid interval of 48,000 km, and my Toyota dealer stretches that out to 60,000 km. And many cars without regenerative braking are extending their schedules to 80,000 km or more. So what makes the Leaf brakes so fragile?

It turns out that the Nissan Leaf requires the older DOT 3 fluid, whereas the Prius and other cars have moved on to the newer and longer-lasting DOT 4 or DOT 5.1. This is weird. There were problems with the first silicone-based DOT 5(.0), but why would a modern car not accept DOT 5.1? I don't know. It might be driven by some compatibility issue with Nissan's regenerative system, but then why can't they copy what Toyota did? And why does the Leaf need a shorter brake fluid interval than other DOT 3 cars?

My best guess is that Nissan is assuming that Leafs will get much fewer km per year than normal cars, maybe assuming just 12,000 km per year. Brake fluid goes bad primarily from age as opposed to use, but most people service their cars based on km driven. So to be super-safe (and super-safe is a good approach with brakes) they converted a two-year interval for DOT 3 into 24,000 km. But for a heavy user like me, (50,000 km per year) I should have at least insisted on a test of the fluid before replacing.

A good dealer would also have given me brake pad amount remaining, in mm, and I didn't get that here.

Note that my bill doesn't actually say they changed the fluid; I'm calling them Monday to confirm that. If all I got was some lubrication for that price, then I really feel like a sucker.

$90.38 Cabin air filter replacement
Not essential, but I like clean air. I could have cut this charge in half by buying an after-market filter and installing it myself.

$38.04 Battery service and test, battery cleaner/sealer
I'm an idiot for agreeing to this. This was just for the 12V battery, which is only $150 or so for a new one. No test results were provided.

$31.50 Battery service and test
What? I thought they said the EV battery checkup was free, and the 12V batter was serviced and tested above, so what is this? Didn't spot the redundancy until I got home, so I'll get an answer Monday.

$0.00 Provide customer with batter test print out
This is necessary to maintain the battery warranty, but the test print out is nearly useless. It gives the total bars still available on the battery, which you can count on the dashboard, and stars rating your charging habits. I guess those star ratings can help alert a user to a problem in advance, but in my case I had 14 out of 15 possible stars.

$0.00 Service Loaner rental
In ten years of getting cars service, this is the first time that anyone has ever given me a loaner for free. Nice. But I guess they charge for it elsewhere, and nothing is ever really free in the end.

$5.25 Environmental fee
$47.76 taxes
I don't begrudge my taxes. Government performs useful functions and we have to pay for it one way or another.

 

[smkettner]

My advice? Take it in once a year for the FREE battery warranty check. Spend NO money for the first 35 months.

 

[TomT]

Sorry, but you got taken... For the at least the first two years all it needs is the free battery check and tire rotation as you like... Brake fluid every three years is fine and all you need is the fluid flush for about 80-90 bucks, not all that other crap...

 

[ElectricEddy]

Cabin air filter: Nissan part # 27891-3SGOA purchased from dealer $8.77 Cdn, labor 30 minutes (my own time).

 

[LeftieBiker]

It turns out that the Nissan Leaf requires the older DOT 3 fluid, whereas the Prius and other cars have moved on to the newer and longer-lasting DOT 4 or DOT 5.1. This is weird. There were problems with the first silicone-based DOT 5(.0), but why would a modern car not accept DOT 5.1?

I don't know about DOT 5.1, but DOT 4 is backwards-compatible.

 

[gncndad]

Cabin air filter: Nissan part # 27891-3SGOA purchased from dealer $8.77 Cdn, labor 30 minutes (my own time).

Yes, 30 minutes the first time. It's awkward, but the 2nd time should be easier.

Sorry about all the over-charging. I don't understand the brake charges at all, and would challenge it 100%.

 

[Firetruck41]

Sorry to see you got hosed. Nothing in that list is worth doing, except maybe the cabin filter (probably every 2 years is reasonable), but as mentioned you can get that for about $10 and do it in a couple minutes (search forum for info on how to do it). I would change brake fluid every 3 years or so. As you mentioned, doesn't even look like they did that, just applied some brake grease (again, very cheap), which should not be needed until you put on new pads, years down the road, and should be part of new pad installation.

 

[Reddy]

Sorry for your experience. I've added washer fluid, rotated the tires, fixed a screw (about 2 weeks into ownership), replaced the tires, bought a 12 V battery maintainer and LeafSpy. Five year costs: less than $500 with tire purchase. Battery check? Screw that, I won't be getting the warranty battery due to my low driving needs. I'll replace the 12 V when it's dead. Air filter? I've never, ever changed a filter. Heck, dust is constant around here, the Leaf's air is cleaner than my 30 yo ICE (oh, I do pick out the dried leaves and other junk when it comes blowing out at me). Brakes/fluid? Not on the Leaf, but yes on the ICE. With the value dropping so significantly, I'll probably continue on my present maintenance schedule.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

there is a reason why they are called "stealerships"

 

[jkline]

Oh man, you got taken and have every right to be livid.

Cabin filter: I went on youtube to learn how to replace it. Easy and I bought one online for less than ten bucks.

12v battery checks are something easily done yourself.

Brake fluid: never replaced dot 3 fluid in anything just because of age or mileage. I would only do it if it turns an odd color. I wouldn't be surprised if you are still driving with the original fluid. I would put the Leaf on ramps and see if the bleed valves look like they have had a wrench on them. If they are dirty, you know the fluid wasn't replaced.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

I would put the Leaf on ramps and see if the bleed valves look like they have had a wrench on them. If they are dirty, you know the fluid wasn't replaced.

He has a point. Many many times they charge you for work that hasn't even been done. Take pictures (with your phone) as you go so you can check them out without being under the car the whole time.

 

[gncndad]

YES: Brake fluid every 3 years. Moisture is the issue.
YES: Cabin filter. For the member who has NEVER changed his cabin filter, it's probably so clogged you'll have difficulty removing it. I can't believe you've got any airflow at all.

 

[jkline]

Changing vehicle fluids at particular intervals is almost based upon folklore, but certainly based upon fluid manufacturers and mechanic's bottom line. Get a brake fluid tester if you want, but its color will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[KillaWhat]

I'm not going to post a long rant here.
This is not the first post like this one.
They make me angry.

I have a 2012 purchased new.
I Love it.
I have spent, in 4 years, $480 on maintenance.
Keeping in mind that includes the $480 for good tires right up front to replace the Ecrapia's.

I have a cabin air filter in the basement.
About $8.00.
I should replace it.
So,...................... $488.00

12volt battery check on a 7 month old car?
Yep, there it is. :roll:

 

[gncndad]

Re: Brake fluid: IMHO, as soon as the brake fluid has color, there's already corrosion, which is what is causing the change in color. At that point, it's too late.

 

[redLEAF]

I'm not going to post a long rant here.
This is not the first post like this one.
They make me angry.

I have a 2012 purchased new.
I Love it.
I have spent, in 4 years, $480 on maintenance.
Keeping in mind that includes the $480 for good tires right up front to replace the Ecrapia's.

I have a cabin air filter in the basement.
About $8.00.
I should replace it.
So,...................... $488.00

12volt battery check on a 7 month old car?
Yep, there it is. :roll:

For my '12 purchased new in December 2011, I needed new tires at 30K; went with run flats and these have worn well with little to no effect on range, better cornering and much better ride and wear; I believe that these are still considered LRR (low-rolling-resistance) tires but perhaps not a 'soft' as the OEM's were -- just had them rotated at 40K (still look new) for free as part of the purchase and had them check my brake pads and fluid --- both look 'new' (and yes, they test the fluid for any moisture, not just color); both tires and brakes were done at an independent shop I typically use after any 'free' service interval at a dealer --- the only thing I expect the Nissan dealer to charge me for now is that annual battery check -- had them do the cabin filter once and that I think ran me about $100; as some have snapped off the plastic tabs on these I know I'm getting gouged but may try this myself when its due in December; we'll see --- so close to the same as 'KillaWhat' -- now if only the depreciation wasn't so bad on these; its still shameful what a pure profit center some of these dealer's charge but an EV has so much less 'to do' versus an ICE for maintenance they're getting creative --

 

[Levenkay]

its still shameful what a pure profit center some of these dealer's charge but an EV has so much less 'to do' versus an ICE for maintenance they're getting creative --

Not creative enough to consider selling software updates, though. Or, for the most part, even HAVING software updates.

Great symmetry on the apostrophes!

 

[jkline]

Well, I encourage everybody to learn to fix their own rigs. As for dealerships, they can go hang: the local Nissan dealership just tried to bleed me for $1000, while predicting dire consequences for a workaround that took 30 minutes and cost zero dollars. And works just fine.

Did you know that if there isn't a complete circuit to the cd player it will drain the battery, rendering the car inoperable? Like almost immediately? That's what they told me. *******s.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Re: Brake fluid: IMHO, as soon as the brake fluid has color, there's already corrosion, which is what is causing the change in color. At that point, it's too late.

Yep. Just junk the car! Actually, there is no one right interval for brake fluid flushes, because it depends on climate and on the integrity of all the system parts, plus whether or not the reservoir cap is ever removed. Testing the fluid after 3 years (mine just tested 100% fine after 3 years) seems like the best course of action.

 

[paulcone]

I would put the Leaf on ramps

Not to change the topic too much, but is this even possible on the rear end? I tried to do that to put a hitch on and all I ended up with was a small dent in the bumper, because the car wouldn't clear the ramps. Maybe I used the wrong ones?