SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

[Stoaty]

You know, I've just decided that anyone with the gall to come into a Nissan LEAF forum and call Nissan's efforts to market EVs NOW, dumb deserves the foe list.

The problem I have with that solution is when I added a 4th "foe" to my list, one of the other 3 already on there gets kicked off. This happened to me repeatedly, so it wasn't just a one time glitch. Guess I have to be very selective about whose messages I really don't want to see. :lol:

 

[davewill]

The problem I have with that solution is when I added a 4th "foe" to my list, one of the other 3 already on there gets kicked off. This happened to me repeatedly, so it wasn't just a one time glitch. Guess I have to be very selective about whose messages I really don't want to see. :lol:

Not in my experience. I've got nine in there. Most of them are spammers that are long gone.

 

[planet4ever]

The problem I have with that solution is when I added a 4th "foe" to my list, one of the other 3 already on there gets kicked off.

That wasn't a problem for me. He was only the third one I have ever added.

 

[DANandNAN]

Knowing that there is a standard coming, one that GM, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Chrysler, VW, Mercedes and Ford have all agreed to, yet still selling cars with something else is dumb.

The reason these guys went with a new "standard" is because they want to confuse the market and slow down the progress of EVs. "Who killed the QC ?".

Who killed the "QC"? Nissan.

Why is it a bad thing that companies joined together and made a decision instead of the charging debacle we experienced last time? Why didn't Nissan join and help make the standard instead of rushing to market a DC port that 95% of Leaf owners don't use on a regular basis? Why didn't Nissan protect the battery so using the DC port wouldn't heat up the battery? Why didn't Nissan offer a real warranty?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Why is it a bad thing that companies joined together and made a decision instead of the charging debacle we experienced last time? Why didn't Nissan join and help make the standard instead of rushing to market a DC port that 95% of Leaf owners don't use on a regular basis?

Dan, at least you're not leaving any doubt to your "thinking" process. Almost 200 companies are joined together, with more than 9 of them being automobile manufactures that market in the USA, including Nissan. So, yes, they joined quite some time ago.

Oh, you're talking about this latest breakaway band of 8 (or 9) with their "rushed to market" and designed by press release Frankenplug group. The "standard" that isnt even standard amongst the group of 8 (or 9). Ya, Nissan will get right back wid-cha.

Here's something most EVs will share, and that is "95%" will rarely use a quick charge, and that won't matter if it's coming from a Frankenplug Euro-specification, Frankenplug USA-specification, 43kW AC Menneke, Tesla 90kW DC or ChadeMo (or even the Chinese standard). Heck, I won't be surprised if another standard shows up soon !!!!! It seems to be popular.

Why didn't Nissan protect the battery so using the DC port wouldn't heat up the battery?

Nothing to do with the standard.

Why didn't Nissan offer a real warranty?

Nothing to do with the standard.

 

[smkettner]

Knowing that there is a standard coming, one that GM, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Chrysler, VW, Mercedes and Ford have all agreed to, yet still selling cars with something else is dumb.

The reason these guys went with a new "standard" is because they want to confuse the market and slow down the progress of EVs. "Who killed the QC ?".

Who killed the "QC"? Nissan.

Why is it a bad thing that companies joined together and made a decision instead of the charging debacle we experienced last time? Why didn't Nissan join and help make the standard instead of rushing to market a DC port that 95% of Leaf owners don't use on a regular basis? Why didn't Nissan protect the battery so using the DC port wouldn't heat up the battery? Why didn't Nissan offer a real warranty?

Rushing to market? The better question is why has SAE-GM kept dragging their feet on this? They are at least five years behind the curve. Nissan & Mitsubishi have a car and a QC system. SAE-GM have NOTHING. SAE-GM may as well talk about how to refuel a fusion powered vehicle.

 

[MaryC]

The big question is, would you buy another Leaf with a CHAdeMO when in a year or two? Honestly? We'll still buy one but only because of the 6.6 L2, there are no DC stations and since we're leasing I don't care as much about the resale value being hurt by CHAdeMO.

Yes, I would.

 

[GerryAZ]

The big question is, would you buy another Leaf with a CHAdeMO when in a year or two? Honestly? We'll still buy one but only because of the 6.6 L2, there are no DC stations and since we're leasing I don't care as much about the resale value being hurt by CHAdeMO.

Yes, I would.

+1

I would buy another LEAF with the CHAdeMO QC port if I needed to replace mine. I am not even worried about the possible battery issues being discussed on other threads--I would purchase (not just lease) again in a heartbeat if I had a need.

Gerry

 

[Nubo]

...
The bottom line is still the bottom line, 8 major manufacturers are going with the SAE Combo. Nissan probably has less than 10k cars that can use DC.

More significantly, Nissan has an operating production line that continues to produce vehicles, and much larger production facilities nearing completion. They are years ahead in terms of production capability and by the time that those 8 manufacturers reach 10,000 EVs on the road, Nissan might have 100,000 and a viable network of DC chargers in place.

I'm betting Nissan's already discussing the feasibility of switching.

Agreed, they'd be negligent not to. SAE might win after all. It's just unfortunate that they chose to compete with what was already a workable, usable standard. It's not as if 2 divergent standards arose at approximately the same time. In terms of drafting, development, deployment, SAE is, what, 3 or 4 years behind the CHAdeMo timeline?

 

[ENIAC]

SAE really stepped in it here. Once their QC "standard" fails, it will become apparent to the auto manufactures that the emperor has no clothes. So when SAE attempts to push their next "standard" the auto manufactures will think twice, "hey weren't you the morons pushing FRANKENPLUG that no one actually produced a single vehicle that supported it"? So tell me know about your latest brain fart fellas.

 

[Nekota]

Just block him (see the Foe area on here)... I got tired of it a while back and did just that. The silence is blissful.

your anti ChaDeMo rant is getting tiresome.

+1

DONE

 

[Smidge204]

So here's how I can imagine things panning out...


1) People like DANandNAN, sitting on government advisory panels and city planning boards, decide to stop funding/approvals for public charging infrastructure not compliant with the new SAE standard.

2) Chargers compliant with the new standard don't exist yet - and won't for several years. Since non-standard chargers are not being installed, NO public chargers are being installed.

3) During the two or three year lull in public charging infrastructure build-out, governments permanently remove funding for public charging stations from their strained budgets.

4) Citing lack of charging infrastructure (and by association, "Lack of public interest"), the auto companies that supported the standard quietly drop development of their EV/PHEV vehicles.

5) The electric car is effectively sent back to its grave.


The DANandNANs of the world save the day again!
=Smidge=

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
And related to that, consumers hold off on buying EVs due to "lack of infrastructure", standards confusion/not knowing how they will pan out and not wanting to be stuck with what they think will be a white elephant. (Think back to the DIVX debacle/DVD confusion thanks to evil Circuit City during DVD's early days. Coincidentally (?), DVD took off DIVX died.)

 

[eclecticflower]

Reading this thread has been very informative and quite entertaining, also! Seems to me there's a lot of informed, intelligent bloggers who can't seem to get other seemingly intelligent bloggers to understand that what may be a possibility may never come to fruition in the foreseeable future. The point is, the real world vehicles use the infrastructure in place and those manufacturers whose real autos are in existence will continue as-is, while being cognizant of what may or may not come. At the same time the need to increase the infrastructure for the existing "standard" will enhance, not detract from, the progression of EV adoption. The "possibilities" may do more to confuse and divert potential EV adopters than to promote the technology.

 

[simpleleaf]

Used QC for the first time in Burleson, Texas. eVgo has six Freedom stations which include L2 and QC operational and about ten more scheduled before September in the DFW area. Houston area is also moving along. These two systems will be nearly completed before any SAE standard is settled upon. The DFW stations are tested everyday by a electrician who was present when I was quick charging.

 

[ztanos]

Can someone explain the instability issues with the SAE plug? I remember reading that it wasn't as safe, but nobody went into great detail. I have been sitting back and reading the posts for a while now. I do think that a single port would be "convenient." Is it necessary? No. Do I believe that companies are waiting on the "standard" plug to become available before putting out DC chargers? Absolutely. Is this going to slow down EV cars? It already has. If SAE is faster, cool, but if it isn't as stable and will end up hurting the charger or the car, not cool. Please somebody (Dan) enlighten me onto the stability issues aforementioned as I am interested in knowing about it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Can someone explain the instability issues with the SAE plug? I remember reading that it wasn't as safe, but nobody went into great detail.

The suggestion is that the Yazaki design plug that the SAE adopted as their own J1772-2009 standard was never intended to be Franken-ized, and only has a small locking sprag on the top of the connector.

Now, they've globbed on two big pins on the bottom, but there are no locking sprags to hold that bottom part, so the assumption is that I could grab the nozzle, pull up, and it may expose the high power pins.

I can guarantee this won't happen with the ChadeMo design, mostly because it was designed as a "clean sheet" effort dedicated specifically for DC high powered charging. Nothing yet has been cobbled onto that design, but maybe we can make a ChadeMo/Combo USA specification / Combo Euro specification monstrosity that can outdo Frankenplug. I give you:

Franken World Plug !!!

 

[edatoakrun]

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

CHAdeMo is well on the way to be the DC infrastructure standard in Europe, as it Already is in Japan.

It will be a disaster if SAE "succeeds" in it's continuing efforts to block the roll out of the DC infrastructure in America.

Today Nissan has unveiled its first electric vehicle Quick Chargers in France and the Netherlands. The Quick Chargers are the first of 400 free units, which have been manufactured and donated across Europe by Nissan, allowing any compliant electric vehicle to be recharged to 80% capacity in just 30 minutes.

In the Netherlands, the charger forms the first part of a 40 unit network, which will mean the majority of Dutch motorists will be within 30km of a Quick Charger, anywhere in the country. The first Nissan unit is being installed on a commercial office estate, which is close to a strategic motorway junction in the central town of Amersfoort. Nissan has donated 400 of its new Quick Chargers across Europe, to create networks which will enable Nissan LEAF and other ChadeMo compliant electric vehicle customers to travel further....

In total France will install 40 Quick Chargers across the country, with details of other locations to be revealed in the coming months....The Nissan Quick Charger is a Direct Current design that conforms to the ChadeMo charging standard. It has been designed and engineered by Nissan to be smaller and cheaper than existing units and is TÜV and CE approved to assist widespread installation. This charger can be made compatible with Renault's AC 43kW fast charging system, and both systems will be offered together for future network expansion.

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2012/05/nissan-brings-30-min-charging-to-ev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

>>>>This charger can be made compatible with Renault's AC 43kW fast charging system, and both systems will be offered together for future network expansion. <<<<<'

This is very well thought out (Renault using both their unique 43kW AC and ChadeMo). Renault can take advantage of their strengths in Euro land (lots of 3 phase power) and adding 400 chargers to the 200 existing will make a formidable army against the attacking "barbarians".

Oh, wait; the Roman empire fell anyway. Let's hope the ChadeMo alliance manages their affairs better than Roma did back then.

It's obvious that Ford and Chrysler don't want to play in this game, with not a SINGLE press release or comment about Frankenplug. Only GM, and they are on the attack.

So, who is pushing this in Europe? BMW? Seven of the other eight Frankenplug members don't even care about EV's that much, and the 9th member who is big in EV's has quietly whispered their support; Renault. Now we can see why. They want to be on everybody's side (ok, no WW2 French jokes).

So, the Frankenplug regional alliance of 8, then 9, really is only 8.

 

[Train]

The reason these guys went with a new "standard" is because they want to confuse the market and slow down the progress of EVs. "Who killed the QC ?".