Schneider EVSE

[richard]

Schneider's residential unit has a segmented circular display. Schneider calls each segment a "progress indicator".

I was wondering how they expect to get this information, since there is no established way for the charging station to know the SOC of the vehicle.

Turns out it's kind of a hack. According to the user guide, "When the unit is charging the progress indicators will either blink or go solid depending on which hour of charging the vehicle is in"

So there's no correlation between progress indicators and SOC. I don't think I like this. I'd rather have no display than a meaningless one.

On a similar note, I'm also wondering how the GE Wattstation progress indicator is supposed to work. The images show percentages:

 

[Mx5racer]

From the installation instructions

NOTE: Use AWG 8 copper or aluminum
wire rated 90 degrees C or higher.

Are all the units requiring 8 wire or is 10 G allowed?

 

[smkettner]

15a = 14
20a = 12
30a = 10
40a = 8

Although I am surprised the aluminum does not need to be larger

 

[wwhitney]

40a = 8

Although I am surprised the aluminum does not need to be larger

This is because the "small conductor" rule is quite conservative. The maximum breaker size for normal circuits using #10 wire or smaller is restricted by NEC 240.4(D). Once you hit #8 wire or larger, then a different set of sizing rules applies, see NEC Table 310.16. The upshot is that in #8 Cu, all insulation types allow at least 40 amps, while in #8 Al, insulation rated 75C or higher allows at least 40 amps. So as long as you are not using Al #8 with 60C rated insulation (the lowest rating), then you are fine. This would preclude using #8 Al Romex or SER, if such things exist, since those cable types require the using of the 60C rated ampacities.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ERG4ALL]

Aluminum used to be used in internal house wiring. Many fires occurred because of improper installation. The outlets were supposed to be "pigtailed" with copper leading to the outlet. What happened was that the copper was supposed to take the physical wear and tear. Anyway they found that the aluminum would oxidize and form a poor connection with higher resistance. Higher resistance means higher temperatures and fires resulted. Now all house wiring (in AZ at least) is back to 100% copper with the exception of that that is the main line. Aluminum is still so much cheaper it is allowed for the main service panel supply. A couple of years ago I put in a 200A 240V main line from our service pole to the house. There are special connectors rated for aluminum and you have to use a special coating that is thoroughly scrubbed into the connection to keep the connection from oxidizing.

My advice is to use all copper from the main service panel for any circuit to an EVSE. Smkettner is right that 40A requires 8 ga. Actually 8 ga. is rated as high as 55A, but 10 ga. at 30A is too small.

 

[smkettner]

Yes I did a little googling and found aluminum wire has improved with different alloys and compact bundling of the strands.
Still I would stick to copper. I have a rental house built in the '60s with aluminum and it is a bit of a pain if repairs are needed.

 

[DaveEV]

Aluminum is a problem with smaller wire because it flows more readily under heat. Which means it tends to loosen up on it's own. Combined with the bit of oxidation aluminum quickly forms on the surface this is what caused issues with aluminum wiring and fires in houses.

Aluminum wiring in bigger wire gauges (is it 8-6GA+?) is not generally an issue as long as the wires are terminated to spec. A bit of aluminum specific electrical paste doesn't hurt, either.

 

[Mx5racer]

I was thinking that I could use my unused 40 amp dryer circuit but it is using 10G wires.
Am I out of luck?

 

[smkettner]

I was thinking that I could use my unused 40 amp dryer circuit but it is using 10G wires.
Am I out of luck?

Most dryers are on a 30a circuit. If you indeed have a 40a double breaker it should be changed to 30a.
If you get a Leviton 160 it only needs 20a circuit and you could use the dryer connection.
This will still charge the Leaf at its maximum L2 rate. Leviton is not available quite yet.

 

[rnkepler]

15a = 14
20a = 12
30a = 10
40a = 8

Although I am surprised the aluminum does not need to be larger

That's interesting. At Home Depot their chart shows that you need 6 gauge copper wire for 40a. It was actually 6-3 if that makes a difference in the amps. So how many amps can 6 gauge wire handle?

 

[DaveEV]

15a = 14
20a = 12
30a = 10
40a = 8

Although I am surprised the aluminum does not need to be larger

That's interesting. At Home Depot their chart shows that you need 6 gauge copper wire for 40a. It was actually 6-3 if that makes a difference in the amps. So how many amps can 6 gauge wire handle?

Ampacity depends on the temperature rating of the insulation as well as the size of the conductor.

Wire Ampacity Charts

6 GA wire rated ampacity varies between 50A and 75A depending on the conductor material (copper/aluminum) and insulation temperature rating (60C, 75C, 90C).

6-3 wire usually indicates that it's a "bundled" cable like romex - so 6-3 has 3 6 GA conductors (typical for a 240V 2-pole hookup w/neutral) and probably a 12-14GA ground wire, too.

 

[ERG4ALL]

One other thing comes to mind with copper wire. Stranded wire will carry a bit more (not enough to select a different size) and it is easier to manipulate as it bends easier with less stress on it.

 

[rnkepler]

6-3 wire usually indicates that it's a "bundled" cable like romex - so 6-3 has 3 6 GA conductors (typical for a 240V 2-pole hookup w/neutral) and probably a 12-14GA ground wire, too.

Thanks. It was for a sub panel that is on a 40a breaker but it looks like I can replace the breaker with at least 50a one depending on the temp rating.

 

[wwhitney]

That's interesting. At Home Depot their chart shows that you need 6 gauge copper wire for 40a.

Nope, Home Depot's chart is wrong. (What else is new? ) As the chart the previous poster referenced shows, #8 Cu has an ampacity of at least 40A for any insulation temperature.

As for 6-3, if it is "Romex", then you have to use the 60C column for ampacity, so 6-3 Cu has an ampacity of 50A.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rnkepler]

Nope, Home Depot's chart is wrong. (What else is new? )

It certain is more profitable for them. That 6-3 wire was expensive. I'm just glad to know I can upgrade the sub panel.

 

[muus]

I was thinking that I could use my unused 40 amp dryer circuit but it is using 10G wires.
Am I out of luck?

Depends on the insulation. Check for markings on the cable indicating the rated temperature. You may be ok if the insulation is rated to 90C. If the electrician did the installation correctly then it should be fine.

Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge#Table_of_AWG_wire_sizes

AWG - 60 / 75 / 90 C insulation

4 - 70A / 85A / 95A
6 - 55A / 65A / 75A
8 - 40A / 50A / 55A
10 - 30A / 35A / 40A
12 - 25A / 25A / 30A
14 - 20A / 20A / 25A

 

[wwhitney]

I was thinking that I could use my unused 40 amp dryer circuit but it is using 10G wires.
Am I out of luck?

Depends on the insulation.

You are missing the "small conductor rule", NEC 240.4(D), which sets limits on breaker sizes for #14-#10 wires for most circuits, regardless of insulation rating. I.e. the familiar #14 Cu = 15 amps, #12 Cu = 20 amps, #10 Cu = 30 amps. So for a dryer or an EVSE, #10 Cu needs a breaker of 30 amps or smaller.

Check for markings on the cable indicating the rated temperature. You may be ok if the insulation is rated to 90C.

Please note that it is difficult to actually achieve the 90C ampacity in the typical electrical installation. That is because not only the wires but also their connections would need to be rated at 90C. Basically all residential breakers are rated 60C or 75C for the wire terminations. As a result, the 90C ampacity is primarily useful only as a starting point in the event of derating for ambient temperature or conduit fill.

Also, in the case of nonmetallic cable, the cable is restricted to using the 60C ampacity, regardless of the insulation on the wires inside. In fact usually the wires inside are not labeled, although the NEC requires the manufacturer to use 90C rated insulation on the wires themselves.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[muus]

Good to know, I guess I received erroneous information.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Schnieder EVSE Thread.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

price??