Second Meter Installation SCE Customers

[sksingh]

Has anyone installed a second meter, and had to replace the existing panel. What is the cost involved. Is it worth it. Can the cost with single meter be reduced with solar panels. Would like to learn about this. I have requested the Time of Use rate from SCE and the CS rep told me it could take a month or two to switch over from standard domestic. I am already in tier three, any extra for EV charging will be at the tier three rate or above. SCE has no additional base allowance for EV's. SCE Project Planner informed me that I need a dual gang unit before SCE can install the second meter. Talking to a few electrical contractors, I gather the cost of such replacement could run into 3-5K.

 

[qcar]

I am trying to get this done as well. SCE told me I need 2 sockets for two meters and the Sunwest Guys said that person doesn't know what they are talking about and most panels will have the sockets so you don't need to upgrade the panel. The SCE guy came out to my house and looked at the panel, then he walked up and down the street measuring ....I have no idea what he was doing. I called back two days later and they said it could take 60 days until they can tell me the plan on installation. I had the Blink installed and I am waiting to see what SCE says.

I am in tier 3 already on the rate so that is .28 cents a KWh... a bit pricey. On the no second meter plan it looks like the off-peak usage tier 2 is already at 16 cents, I would think tier 3 is over 20 cents....and the tier 2 on peak is 56 cents!!!!

Since I am in tier 3 already and most of our usage is on-peak I think tier 2 and tier 3 on-peak pricing on the ev rate will just kill me even if I only charge off peak. None of these plans look really good for me except the second meter.....and the charging at the office plan....

Home & Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-D-TEV) Details*
Season Summer
(June - September)
Winter
(October - May)
Tier Tier 1 Tier 2 Tier 1 Tier 2
On-Peak
(10 a.m. - 6 p.m. on weekdays) 19¢ / kwh 56¢ / kwh 13¢ / kwh 26¢ / kwh
Off-Peak
(Weekdays: 6 a.m. - 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. - 12 a.m.
Weekends: 6 a.m. - 12 a.m.) 13¢ / kwh 25¢ / kwh 12¢ / kwh 23¢ / kwh
Super Off-Peak
(Midnite - 6 a.m. every day) 10¢ / kwh 16¢ / kwh 10¢ / kwh 16¢ / kw

 

[smkettner]

Due to install cost I think I am going with TOU-D-TEV. Will need to keep the air set fairly high until 6p on weekdays then crank it waaayy down at midnight.
That 56 cent peak rate sure makes a small solar system interesting.

 

[sksingh]

I had SCE do a rate analysis for me, based on driving 12k miles annually. For two meter option my yearly bill would be $1500, and on the domestic plan $2290, and with Electric Vehicle & Household $1830. Thats a net saving of $330 per year. To have a second meter installed at an upfront cost of even 3K results in a 10 yr ROI. (approx). Not attractive, so I asked for the TOU-D-TEV rate. Their site says they have only two tiers in this plan. Summer time peak rate in Tier 2 of this plan of 0.56c is a killer.

Sunpower website has an estimator app, for a 3.25kw install, their estimate was 28K and 16k after rebates. Assuming I generate what I consume, net zero, the ROI would be approx 9 years. They show a net gain of 55K over 25 years.

Costco has a 3.6kw unit for 13.5k, and 5kw unit for 18k, much less expensive, and rebates would further lower this. However, cost of installation is not included or offered.

 

[Boomer23]

Solar PV and the SCE TOU-D-TEV rate plan work very well together. That's what I have set up. Go to the threads under Local Discussions / Utilities / SCE and read the discussions there. They do get pretty detailed, though.

Here's the bottom line, and you may have already understood the advantages. Since you generate solar power during Peak hours, net solar power that you generate in excess of your usage during Peak hours is credited at the full 56 cents (I think that there are only 4 summer months and the rest are winter, which has a much lower Tier 2 cost. Also, remember that Peak hours only occur on weekdays, not weekends and holidays). That credit offsets your usage during Off Peak and Super Off Peak hours.

The net effect is that if you generate solar power to equal your household usage, being on the TOU-D-TEV plan and charging your LEAF midnight to 6 am will likely result in more miles at zero electrical cost than you might initially estimate. If you air condition a lot during Peak hours, though, the benefit of that large credit gets eroded. Each Peak kWh that you generate in summer in excess of your usage offsets a LEAF charging kWh to the tune of 56-16=40 cents/kWh in Tier 2.

 

[santamonicajane]

i did not have a second meter installed. they (edison) just changed my meter to one that records tierd rates. i live in santa monica and i pay .09 cents a kwh in super off peak period 12 mid to 6a. i have solar panels and therefore am charged only once a year on my anniversary for my net energy use. the change of meters was free. the net energy metering office at edison has been very helpful in explaining charges etc. currently i pay about $20.00 a year for electric service it will be interesting to see how much the leaf adds to this.

 

[qcar]

Ok so it is time to put some panels on my roof...any recommendations on vendors?

 

[EricH]

I had SCE do a rate analysis for me, based on driving 12k miles annually. For two meter option my yearly bill would be $1500, and on the domestic plan $2290, and with Electric Vehicle & Household $1830. Thats a net saving of $330 per year. To have a second meter installed at an upfront cost of even 3K results in a 10 yr ROI. (approx). Not attractive, so I asked for the TOU-D-TEV rate. Their site says they have only two tiers in this plan. Summer time peak rate in Tier 2 of this plan of 0.56c is a killer.

I had SCE do the same analysis, with similar results; I went on the single-meter TOU rate. I know people who have installed the second meter panel, and it is very expensive ($2,000-$3,000 is common). The two-tier structure in TOU-D-TEV is the result of state law and CPUC interpretation, which currently requires heavily discounted rates for 130% of your baseline allocation (which, as you note, is unaffected by your EV load) and proportionately higher rates for the rest of your usage. I have heard that SCE may be able to remove the tiers from TOU-D-TEV as early as this fall, under the theory that as an 'optional' rate, customers may be able to 'waive' the first-tier rate protection if the overall pricing is easier to understand and follow; the result would be six prices; On-peak, off-peak, and super-off-peak -- with different rates for summer/winter. I'd greatly prefer that because it's really hard to tell in real-time which "Tier" you are using on any given day.

 

[BlueSL]

I have heard that SCE may be able to remove the tiers from TOU-D-TEV as early as this fall, under the theory that as an 'optional' rate, customers may be able to 'waive' the first-tier rate protection if the overall pricing is easier to understand and follow; the result would be six prices; On-peak, off-peak, and super-off-peak -- with different rates for summer/winter. I'd greatly prefer that because it's really hard to tell in real-time which "Tier" you are using on any given day.

It is possible to be too early of an adopter. This happened to me with AV in the Bay Area -- Ecotality coming to the party late, after I had paid $2k for my EVSE install. PG&E has an even longer way to go here when it comes to EV-friendly rate options. (Don't get me started).

Given the length of the ROI period with your current options, a little patience might make a lot of sense.

 

[tombobcat]

I have second meter installed on a second panel, the process took us almost 3 months to complete. It's kind of new to everyone, the city, the contractor, and even SCE planners is not too sure what thay are talking about, that's why it took so long. Daniel from Electric FX did a very good job installing the second meter at a reasonable price, you can find the pictures of what he did here http://www.electricfxcorp.com/Gallery.html, tell him Vu send you.

 

[Neal]

I did the rate analysis with SCE and it looked like the second meter was the best option for me.
However after two weeks of trying to get SCE and the Contractor to talk, I gave up and went ahead with the single meter plan.
The SCE education materials and website etc are good but they need to improve the installation process.
Neal

 

[smkettner]

I did the rate analysis with SCE and it looked like the second meter was the best option for me.
However after two weeks of trying to get SCE and the Contractor to talk, I gave up and went ahead with the single meter plan.
The SCE education materials and website etc are good but they need to improve the installation process.
Neal

Did you have TOU data to do the analysis?

 

[BudRaymond]

I have a 5kW solar system and opted for the 2 meter setup. In the old days of the RAV-4 EV, you could use a dual meter adapter for the second meter with a small sub-panel for the charger. Apparently a Tesla owner had that setup and smoke came out of the adapter.
So now you need a separate panel pulled with new service. Still worth it for me, because the D-TEV super off peak is only midnight to 6am, while the 2nd EV-1 meter rate is off-peak from 9pm to noon. I don't know that I will always be able to charge between midnight and 6am, and on-peak for either rate schedule becomes far too costly. D-TEV is also a tiered structure, so without solar you could end up getting into tier 3 and 4 every month. The EV-1 off-peak is a flat rate for unlimited consumption.

So based on all that, the 2nd meter works well for me.

 

[Boomer23]

D-TEV is also a tiered structure, so without solar you could end up getting into tier 3 and 4 every month. The EV-1 off-peak is a flat rate for unlimited consumption.

So based on all that, the 2nd meter works well for me.

I believe that D-TEV has only two tiers.

 

[adaminla]

I went the installed two meter route and so far am happy but really don't know how the billing is going to work out as I've not yet received the first bill.

Total time to update the panels and complete wiring work was about 2.5 weeks.

I pulled the permits for the electrician and he did the work in just under 1 day. He charged me $2000 to install a large, 2 meter box, new 200 amp panel for the house and a 70Amp panel for the car system, wiring to the garage and installing a 240 plug as well as a 120 gfci box. I'm waiting for the Leviton EVSE that I can just plug into the wall myself.

Then the city inspector took a few days to get out because I didn't call for a couple of days. He approved the work and communicated with SCE using a bat-phone. Three days later I had 3 SCE linemen at my house fixing the wiring from the top of the pole to their wiring pole. The next day, someone stopped by and installed a big new commercial meter. Once they connected that, the electrician came back out and moved the wiring onto the 70Amp panel and verified it's all set.

While he was at it, I had him install some lighting in my driveway and get me an estimate for a rewire of the house (coming soon).

Now that I've done this once, I bet you could go start to finish in 10 days. Just need to plan it out. but life's not a race so no need to rush.

 

[DrRocket]

Ok so it is time to put some panels on my roof...any recommendations on vendors?

http://www.verengosolar.com/ for lease plans, Zero down.

 

[EricH]

D-TEV is also a tiered structure, so without solar you could end up getting into tier 3 and 4 every month. The EV-1 off-peak is a flat rate for unlimited consumption.

So based on all that, the 2nd meter works well for me.

I believe that D-TEV has only two tiers.

D-TEV has two tiers, reflecting the current CPUC interpretation of state law that requires a historically capped rate for 130% of your baseline allocation (the first D-TEV tier), and a rate that reflects the rest of authorized utility costs beyond that (second tier). I have heard rumors that D-TEV may be simplified in the future (single "tier"), if the CPUC re-considers that D-TEV is an optional rate. Total bill would not change for an "average" customer, but all marginal usage (say, EV charging) would be at a lower rate for what is now the 2nd tier.

 

[laalan]

I am in Orange, CA and installed a second meter for Time of Use. When I went down to the city to get the permit, I was informed that I was the first for Orange. Only minor glitch at the Permit office was the two meter at one address problem. Solved by adding EV at the end of the street address.

As I had already self installed the Aerovironment charging unit, I hired Electric FX (http://www.electricfxcorp) to handle the additional meter installation. For under $1,000 not including the permit, he met with the SCE planner and came up with a plan where he showed up at 7am, the SCE folks disconnected power at 9am, and we were able to have them back at 11:30am to restore power. Very lucky. A lot of great cooperation by SCE and my electrician. The work was done by Daniel Ollom, FX's president.

 

[Boomer23]

I am in Orange, CA and installed a second meter for Time of Use. When I went down to the city to get the permit, I was informed that I was the first for Orange. Only minor glitch at the Permit office was the two meter at one address problem. Solved by adding EV at the end of the street address.

As I had already self installed the Aerovironment charging unit, I hired Electric FX (http://www.electricfxcorp) to handle the additional meter installation. For under $1,000 not including the permit, he met with the SCE planner and came up with a plan where he showed up at 7am, the SCE folks disconnected power at 9am, and we were able to have them back at 11:30am to restore power. Very lucky. A lot of great cooperation by SCE and my electrician. The work was done by Daniel Ollom, FX's president.

Great story, I'm sure it will help others. Thanks for reporting your story!