So, owners what range are you getting ?

[freshleaf]

My Car WINGS tells me I am at 5.2 kWh. I normally Drive with Econo mode (95%) and "B"mode (80%). Rarely drive in "N".
My runs are from home to Office and back.

Home to office distance is 22 Miles and I use around 25-28 off the Meter. going north
Office to home is same 22 miles but I use less off the Meter 18-20.. going south
Will that be the wind drag ??
Same Flat road with many signals..

Is driving in "B" really add to the energy or is same as letting the foot off the Pedal..

I really Love this Car after driving BMW 335i Sports for 4 Yrs.
I wish they build better Batteries to go like 250+ miles.
Or they drop the price on Teslas S to 35K

 

[N1ghtrider]

Tonight I accomplished my first 100-plus mile trip on a single charge in my 2013 SL I leased last week after my 2012 was totaled. (I had done that 15 times in my 2012.) This trip was about 60 miles on I-95 at 58-60 mph, and the rest in around-town driving. I averaged 5.2 m/kWh (both dash and Carwings), which was easy to do in my 2012 and difficult in this car. The weather was clear and warm, at about 83F. Six temperature bars at all times. I used the a/c for the first 75 miles, then turned it off for the rest of the ride. I hit LBW at 73.1 miles; VLB at 95.1, and still showed 6% charge when I stopped at home with 101.2 on the trip odometer.

 

[kmp647]

I'm guessing that one of the reasons it was ougher to do in your 2013 is the new heat pump system issue?

what was the climate controll watts draw during your portion of the trip that you had the a/c on?

 

[N1ghtrider]

I'm guessing that one of the reasons it was ougher to do in your 2013 is the new heat pump system issue?

what was the climate controll watts draw during your portion of the trip that you had the a/c on?

I did not record that data.

 

[zugstar]

I may have bought a lemon.
Just got a 2012SL fully loaded demo car with 650 miles from Nissan Vallejo (it's in a hot climate).
Drove from Vallejo CA to my home in San Jose CA.
Initial charge 100% at dealer lot.
Freeway driving at 60 mph with climate control on AC and 85F outside temp.
HW 680 had a hill to cross, 1500 feet elevation climb then back to sealevel again.
Got range warning at 30 miles so slowed to 50 MPH and turned off AC but kept windows closed.
Made it home with 4 miles range indicated. Total miles driven 58 odometer miles. I discovered the tires were at 30PSI

I then went to the San Jose Nissan stevens creek and got the latest firmware update last week and I filled the tires to 40PSI.

Around town at total odometer of 950 miles the car still does not seem to do well even with gentle driving in ECO mode so i just did a test today whereby I drained the car from 100% charge to turtle (range miles reading just changed to ---) by driving 50.5 odometer miles somewhat hard in sport mode around town with climate control on and then charged it back to 100% on a Chargepoint public charger.
The charger reported I used 21.47KWh to fully charge the car. If I assume a 15% charging loss, then I only got 18.25KWh into stored battery energy. I understand the pack is supposed to deliver about 21.5KWh full charge, so then I'm down about 3.25 KWh capacity.
If the charging efficiency loss is 20% instead of 15% then I'm down even worse with useable pack capacity of 17.2KWh, down 4.3KWh from the theoretical 21.5KWh for a new battery pack.

I still have all 12 capacity bars (not confused with the "fuel" SOC battery bars) so its curious how I can have lost 3.25 or 4.3KWh capacity.

 

[DaveEV]

I may have bought a lemon.

For sure your car is down on capacity - the question is how much exactly?

Some thoughts:

1. For every charge cycle, you need to reset the dash economy gauge on either the dash or the center console so you know your overall economy for the charge. It's the only piece of information aside from energy from the wall that you can use to estimate capacity.
2. When the DTE indicator changes to ---, that is shortly after very low battery warning (VLBW). You still have about 1 kWh usable on a typical car which is normally good for about 4 miles. Some cars seem to have more than this.
3. If you have an Android phone, pick up an ELM327 device and install Turbo3's LEAF Battery Application. It can provide more insight.

 

[planet4ever]

Around town at total odometer of 950 miles the car still does not seem to do well even with gentle driving in ECO mode so i just did a test today whereby I drained the car from 100% charge to turtle (range miles reading just changed to ---)

No, that's not Turtle, that is VLBW (Very Low Battery), which should happen when you have 2kWh remaining. (Drees just said 1, but surfingslovak and other have said 2.)

The charger reported I used 21.47KWh to fully charge the car. If I assume a 15% charging loss, then I only got 18.25KWh into stored battery energy. I understand the pack is supposed to deliver about 21.5KWh full charge, so then I'm down about 3.25 KWh capacity.

You are right about 15% for 240v charging of a 2012 using a "charger" (you mean EVSE, the charger is built in to the car) that can handle 16A or more. I would emphasize the "about" in your statement on a new pack. Personally, I would say it should deliver at least 21kWh. So, subtracting 0.5kWh from your number, and then (per my first paragraph) 2.0kWh from that, it sounds like you are down at least 0.75kWh in capacity.

Does that make you feel any better?

I still have all 12 capacity bars (not confused with the "fuel" SOC battery bars) so its curious how I can have lost 3.25 or 4.3KWh capacity.

The first bar won't go until you have lost around 3 to 3.5 kWh, so based on my analysis above you should have a long time yet in San Jose weather.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

Around town at total odometer of 950 miles the car still does not seem to do well even with gentle driving in ECO mode so i just did a test today whereby I drained the car from 100% charge to turtle (range miles reading just changed to ---)

No, that's not Turtle, that is VLBW (Very Low Battery), which should happen when you have 2kWh remaining. (Drees just said 1, but surfingslovak and other have said 2.)

VLBW = 25 GIDs = 25 * 80 Wh = 2 kWh. But turtle comes on around 7-8 GIDs which leaves you with about 1.3 kWh between VLBW and turtle, but you don't get to use any significant amount before the car stops moving. At a typical 4.0 mi/kWh it's best to just plan on having about 1 kWh left or about 4 miles. Anything more than that is gravy.

If you're trying to get to Turtle to get 100% recharge data safely or just for curiosity, easiest thing to do is to drive it a couple miles past VLBW, park the car next to a plug, then turn on the heater / defroster at maximum temperature until turtle comes on.

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, that's not Turtle, that is VLBW (Very Low Battery), which should happen when you have 2kWh remaining. (Drees just said 1, but surfingslovak and other have said 2.)

Ray

VLB is 2 kWh STORED, which leaves about 1.3 to 1.5 kWh USEABLE until the car hits Turtle and shortly thereafter stops moving. 1kWh is a good, easy to remember value, and 2kWh will never be available at VLB.

 

[stjohnh]

Tonight I accomplished my first 100-plus mile trip on a single charge in my 2013 SL I leased last week after my 2012 was totaled. (I had done that 15 times in my 2012.) This trip was about 60 miles on I-95 at 58-60 mph, and the rest in around-town driving. I averaged 5.2 m/kWh (both dash and Carwings), which was easy to do in my 2012 and difficult in this car. The weather was clear and warm, at about 83F. Six temperature bars at all times. I used the a/c for the first 75 miles, then turned it off for the rest of the ride. I hit LBW at 73.1 miles; VLB at 95.1, and still showed 6% charge when I stopped at home with 101.2 on the trip odometer.

Roy, be aware that at least some 2013 Leafs have more miles below VLBW than 2011 and 2012 Leafs, especially those that report a capacity of about 60-61 AHr when new (seems to be those w manufacture date of May or later). Until you actually run the car down to turtle you won't really be able to compare the real range of your 2013 to the older Leafs.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Roy, be aware that at least some 2013 Leafs have more miles below VLBW than 2011 and 2012 Leafs.

The phenomenon is not just the 2013 LEAF. The others can possess the "crazy miles" below LBW and VLB. On the two 2013's that I have driven in range tests, neither displayed this. But, we did have 2011-2012 cars that did in Phoenix, for instance, during that test, September 15, 2012.

 

[surfingslovak]

No, that's not Turtle, that is VLBW (Very Low Battery), which should happen when you have 2kWh remaining. (Drees just said 1, but surfingslovak and other have said 2.)

Ray

VLB is 2 kWh STORED, which leaves about 1.3 to 1.5 kWh USEABLE until the car hits Turtle and shortly thereafter stops moving. 1kWh is a good, easy to remember value, and 2kWh will never be available at VLB.

This is true. It's been suggested to Jim that his app implemented a battery efficiency factor and showed usable capacity instead of stored capacity. Unfortunately, battery efficiency changes with the SOC and with internal resistance. It's easier to show stored energy instead, which is what Phil had planned for LeafScan as well. The advantage here is that Nissan adjusts GIDs based on pack voltage and other parameters, and the implied usable energy varies as a result. In an ironic twist, stored energy figures overstate the capacity of the car, much like the GOM often did on full charge. This will be very confusing to new owners, unless we figured out a good way to address it.

 

[DaveEV]

Roy, be aware that at least some 2013 Leafs have more miles below VLBW than 2011 and 2012 Leafs.

The phenomenon is not just the 2013 LEAF. The others can possess the "crazy miles" below LBW and VLB. On the two 2013's that I have driven in range tests, neither displayed this. But, we did have 2011-2012 cars that did in Phoenix, for instance, during that test, September 15, 2012.

Tony, the "crazy miles" on '13 LEAFs is below VLBW - below 10 GIDs. The '11-12 cars appeared to have the "crazy miles" above VLBW.

It would be good to use the ELM327 to data-log range tests when possible to eliminate any question about these types of things.

 

[zugstar]

Around town at total odometer of 950 miles the car still does not seem to do well even with gentle driving in ECO mode so i just did a test today whereby I drained the car from 100% charge to turtle (range miles reading just changed to ---)

No, that's not Turtle, that is VLBW (Very Low Battery), which should happen when you have 2kWh remaining. (Drees just said 1, but surfingslovak and other have said 2.)

The charger reported I used 21.47KWh to fully charge the car. If I assume a 15% charging loss, then I only got 18.25KWh into stored battery energy. I understand the pack is supposed to deliver about 21.5KWh full charge, so then I'm down about 3.25 KWh capacity.

You are right about 15% for 240v charging of a 2012 using a "charger" (you mean EVSE, the charger is built in to the car) that can handle 16A or more. I would emphasize the "about" in your statement on a new pack. Personally, I would say it should deliver at least 21kWh. So, subtracting 0.5kWh from your number, and then (per my first paragraph) 2.0kWh from that, it sounds like you are down at least 0.75kWh in capacity.

Does that make you feel any better?

I still have all 12 capacity bars (not confused with the "fuel" SOC battery bars) so its curious how I can have lost 3.25 or 4.3KWh capacity.

The first bar won't go until you have lost around 3 to 3.5 kWh, so based on my analysis above you should have a long time yet in San Jose weather.

Ray

Thanks Ray, If I'm only down .75KWh then I feel a little better. It's just the chance one takes when buying a used Leaf as a Demo. It was probably driven pretty hard and also fast charged a lot too.

 

[zugstar]

I may have bought a lemon.

For sure your car is down on capacity - the question is how much exactly?

Some thoughts:

1. For every charge cycle, you need to reset the dash economy gauge on either the dash or the center console so you know your overall economy for the charge. It's the only piece of information aside from energy from the wall that you can use to estimate capacity.
2. When the DTE indicator changes to ---, that is shortly after very low battery warning (VLBW). You still have about 1 kWh usable on a typical car which is normally good for about 4 miles. Some cars seem to have more than this.
3. If you have an Android phone, pick up an ELM327 device and install Turbo3's LEAF Battery Application. It can provide more insight.

Do you know if anyone else has posted the wall energy for a recharge from VLBW back to 100% charge? It would be interesting to compare that result with mine, 21.47KWh.
If my Leaf's KWh capacity were down by a significant amount, and considering that the car was purchased from a Nissan dealer, do you suppose Nissan resolve this by repairing/replacing my pack?

 

[TonyWilliams]

It would be good to use the ELM327 to data-log range tests when possible to eliminate any question about these types of things.

I think every LEAF tested (or the more than a dozen I've been involved with) has used a Gidmeter, so we're not without data. Plus, the ELM327 app didn't exist, but, more info is always better!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

If my Leaf's KWh capacity were down by a significant amount, and considering that the car was purchased from a Nissan dealer, do you suppose Nissan resolve this by repairing/replacing my pack?

They will consider it when your pack hits 66.25% or less capacity within 60 months / 60,000 miles. Before that, absolutely not. All the new LEAFs were purchased from a (privately owned) Nissan dealer in the USA.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks Ray, If I'm only down .75KWh then I feel a little better. It's just the chance one takes when buying a used Leaf as a Demo. It was probably driven pretty hard and also fast charged a lot too.

No, actually, it could have been left parked in the heat. Or left at 100% charge. Or it's just "Nissan-Normal(TM)".

 

[zugstar]

I may have bought a lemon.

For sure your car is down on capacity - the question is how much exactly?

Some thoughts:

1. For every charge cycle, you need to reset the dash economy gauge on either the dash or the center console so you know your overall economy for the charge. It's the only piece of information aside from energy from the wall that you can use to estimate capacity.
2. When the DTE indicator changes to ---, that is shortly after very low battery warning (VLBW). You still have about 1 kWh usable on a typical car which is normally good for about 4 miles. Some cars seem to have more than this.
3. If you have an Android phone, pick up an ELM327 device and install Turbo3's LEAF Battery Application. It can provide more insight.

Do you know if anyone else has posted the wall energy for a recharge from VLBW back to 100% charge? It would be interesting to compare that result with mine, 21.47KWh.
If my Leaf's KWh capacity were down by a significant amount, and considering that the car was purchased from a Nissan dealer, do you suppose Nissan resolve this by repairing/replacing my pack?

OK so I think my car has a good battery pack. I did a test by charging to 100% last Monday and subsequently drove it on city streets until I had to recharge it today. I used ECO mode and did not use climate control. I got 90miles range at about 2 miles beyond the VLBW but no Turtle. Speeds varied between 30-45 MPH and I used gentle acceleration and braking. I estimate I had to stop at traffic lights about 150 times total, so my range would have been even better had I been on rural streets with fewer lights. To recharge again I used 21.9KWh. A friend at work simultaneously did the same recharge on his Leaf, right next to mine- we have 4 Chargepoint stations at work- (also from about 2 miles below his VLBW) and he used a total of 19.1KWh from the wall. His Leaf has 36K miles whereas mine is now at 1K miles.
Thanks everyone for their comments. I really like my Leaf having graduated from a 2008 ZAP

 

[donald]

For a lighthearted and amusing conclusion, please recall that the fist speeding fine ever was reportedly issued to an EV driver in 1899. What was his crime you ask? Going 12 mph when the speed limit was 8 mph.

... first in America...

The first in the world of a motorised vehicle, where there is a judicial record, was issued in 1896 in England; 1 shilling fine, plus costs against Walter Anrold for 8 mph in a 2 mph zone!

Only thing is ... how did they measure the difference between 8 and 12 mph, in 1899? Above 2 mph (more than walking pace) would have been easy to detect in Walter's case. But 12 mph instead of 8 mph? He must have confessed .. conclusion being the same advice as 100 years ago; never say anything if you are stopped - let them prove it!