So, owners what range are you getting ?

[DaveEV]

If other members are getting 60-70 miles till LBW at 100% charge, what economy are they needing to achieve that? About 4.0 mi/kWh?

My last mostly freeway drive a month ago to or past LBW was 68.1 mi, 4.2 mi/kWh, LBW went somewhere around 62 miles and got home with 29 GIDs and 3 mi on the GOM. In contrast, a bit over a year ago, I did a 72 mi drive at 4.4 mi/kWh, and stopped around LBW (no GID meter then). Pretty obvious I've had some capacity loss since then.

On the EPA 72 mile rating, what number does that translate to in the dash economy reading?

No idea what the dash reported on their tests, but I'd assume that it would be around 3.5 mi/kWh.

Do you have a GID meter? I really need to get a reading on my LEAF and was wondering if someone would rent me one for a couple of weeks.

I do, but I would look for someone local to borrow to avoid shipping issues, plus mine is very rough. Or just buy a GID meter from Gary or build your own LEAFcan.

Also, Drees, I was looking at your 18 panel PV system. What type/wattage panels are you using? I was wondering how much is lost through the inverters as you will averaging well below 160 watts even during peak hrs. I don't have much prime roof space, so I was hoping to get at least 215 watts out of the M215s using 250 watt panels.

Panels are only 180W DC. I only see 180W AC in cool weather if the sun has been hiding behind clouds and pops out around solar noon. Panels aren't tilted towards the south, either, so only from May-July does the sun directly hit the panels but then it's warm enough that power output of the panels go down. The PTC rating of the panels is 160W so that's all you would normally expect from them. A 250W panel has a PTC rating around 220W. If you are space limited, you might consider Sunpower panels - they have the most efficient panels so you might be able to squeeze another 25% more energy out of your space. Make sure they don't sell you the lower efficiency panels, though. You might have to forgo microinverters if you go Sunpower.

 

[jopickens]

4.2 mi/kWh average over first two months of ownership here in WV. 2450 mi.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Also, Drees, I was looking at your 18 panel PV system. What type/wattage panels are you using? I was wondering how much is lost through the inverters as you will averaging well below 160 watts even during peak hrs. I don't have much prime roof space, so I was hoping to get at least 215 watts out of the M215s using 250 watt panels.

I have 33 Sunpower 230 watt panels with a Sunpower/Sunnyboy(SMA) inverter. I get 95-96% DC to AC conversion.

I am generating 50 kWh (AC) daily the past month. I hit just over 7 kW (AC) instant on my 7.6 kW (DC).

I also am in Scottsdale, AZ. This is one of the highest yielding areas of the country.

Sunpower has replaced their 230 watt panels with a 327 watt panel in just slightly larger a footprint.

Previous experience shows I will generate slightly more than faceplate value during peak periods in May.

BTW - my panels are south facing at 180 degrees at a 23.5 degree tilt.

 

[LEAFfan]

SunPower just came out with a new X panel...345W with a 21.5% efficiency. :mrgreen:

http://us.sunpowercorp.com/homes/products-services/solar-panels/x-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ELROY]

SunPower just came out with a new X panel...345W with a 21.5% efficiency. :mrgreen:

http://us.sunpowercorp.com/homes/products-services/solar-panels/x-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Amazing stuff. I am wondering if the Power One Microinverters are more ideal when it comes to higher powered panels.

I have 33 Sunpower 230 watt panels with a Sunpower/Sunnyboy(SMA) inverter. I get 95-96% DC to AC conversion.

I am generating 50 kWh (AC) daily the past month. I hit just over 7 kW (AC) instant on my 7.6 kW (DC).

I also am in Scottsdale, AZ. This is one of the highest yielding areas of the country.

Sunpower has replaced their 230 watt panels with a 327 watt panel in just slightly larger a footprint.

Previous experience shows I will generate slightly more than faceplate value during peak periods in May.

BTW - my panels are south facing at 180 degrees at a 23.5 degree tilt.

That is some healthy output! If I could average 30kWh/day, it would pretty much take care of my electrical needs.

 

[LEAFfan]

BOT, for Earth Day, I drove over 100 miles (35-45mph mostly/6.4m/kW h), relatively flat, 90F, 6 TBs, and still had two bars left, 19% SoC on the dsh, 22 miles DTE, and 5 trees. Later this morning, I'm going to drive it down to LBW and VLBW before I recharge.

 

[LUXMAN]

BOT, for Earth Day, I drove over 100 miles (35-45mph mostly/6.4m/kW h), relatively flat, 90F, 6 TBs, and still had two bars left, 19% SoC on the dsh, 22 miles DTE, and 5 trees. Later this morning, I'm going to drive it down to LBW and VLBW before I recharge.

LEAFfan,
I see that you have has your car for almost 2 years. 100 miles is impressive. Have you not seen much capacity loss then?
LUXMAN

 

[LEAFfan]

BOT, for Earth Day, I drove over 100 miles (35-45mph mostly/6.4m/kW h), relatively flat, 90F, 6 TBs, and still had two bars left, 19% SoC on the dsh, 22 miles DTE, and 5 trees. Later this morning, I'm going to drive it down to LBW and VLBW before I recharge.

LEAFfan,
I see that you have has your car for almost 2 years. 100 miles is impressive. Have you not seen much capacity loss then?
LUXMAN

I now have a 2013 SV (Feb. 28), but haven't changed my Sig.

 

[RegGuheert]

SunPower just came out with a new X panel...345W with a 21.5% efficiency. :mrgreen:

http://us.sunpowercorp.com/homes/products-services/solar-panels/x-series/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very impressive!

Amazing stuff. I am wondering if the Power One Microinverters are more ideal when it comes to higher powered panels.

I don't know if they can handle these panels. It appears the MPPT voltage is O.K., since they list it as going as high as 50V and the 96-cell Sunpower panels should be about 48V. But the datasheet also lists the maximum power for the PV panel to be 320W. You may wish to ask PowerOne if they can support a 345W panel.

Edit: No, the PowerOne Microinverters will not work with these panels since the panel Vmpp is 57.3V in the specifications and the PowerOne only can regulate up to 50V.

 

[planet4ever]

I now have a 2013 SV (Feb. 28), but haven't changed my Sig.

There is a very confusing thing about both signatures and profiles. If you change them, they are "instantly" changed in all old posts as well. It's sort of like rewriting history.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Yep. Gotta love revisionist history.

I guess folks that change to newer Leafs might want to state their former and current ones in their sig. Otherwise, we're dependent on finding old posts via the Internet Wayback Machine (http://archive.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, if someone bothers to add them there...

 

[LEAFfan]

Before I recharged today, I drove another 20 miles starting close to LBW (120.4 total) ending with 7% SoC left on the dash.

 

[ELROY]

Added a couple more test sessions. At the recommended 80% charge to LBW and 4.0 economy, it seems that getting 40-45 miles will be the norm for my car. Even at 4.0, I think I would be hard pressed to get 70 miles at 100% charge. Hope to see more charts of what other members are getting from 80%/100% to LBW/VLBW and your dash economy reading.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You certainly have great records. Have you out a Gidmeter on it? If so,mwah at did it say?

To go 50 miles from 80% to VLB at 3.7 (assuming it was reset) means that you should have had:

21kWh * 80% = 16.8kWh usable minus 1.3kWh remaining at VLB = 15.5kWh calculated for a new battery at 70F.

15.5kWh * 3.7 = 57.4 miles

50 miles is about 13% less !! Do you still have all 12 capacity bar segments illuminated?

Having lived in Oxnard, I understand what huge temperature changes there can be from Thousand Oaks to the beach. Does your car sit in extreme heat in the summer?

EDIT: numerous math errors

 

[DaveEV]

Math is wrong, Tony, though it doesn't change the results much.

80% charge is actually about 84% of a 100% charge.

21 x 84% = 17.64 - 1.3 = 16.34 on a new battery.
16.34 / 3.7 = 62 miles, or about 12 more than Elroy so one can presume that Elroy's car has about 2.8 kWh less than a new car between 80% and VLBW.

I'm going to guess that Elroy's car has about 17.5 kWh usable or about 16-17% capacity loss. Seems pretty steep for a 2012 that isn't in Arizona.

Would love to see what the GID count is after 80-100% charges along with what the car reports as it's Ah capacity.

 

[ELROY]

Math is wrong, Tony, though it doesn't change the results much.

80% charge is actually about 84% of a 100% charge.

21 x 84% = 17.64 - 1.3 = 16.34 on a new battery.
16.34 / 3.7 = 62 miles, or about 12 more than Elroy so one can presume that Elroy's car has about 2.8 kWh less than a new car between 80% and VLBW.

I'm going to guess that Elroy's car has about 17.5 kWh usable or about 16-17% capacity loss. Seems pretty steep for a 2012 that isn't in Arizona.

Would love to see what the GID count is after 80-100% charges along with what the car reports as it's Ah capacity.

Yes, temps are very mild here. 50-75 degrees. Probably 65 degrees average. Batt temp always reads 5 bars.
Car has never been in extreme hot or cold yet.
On the rare times that I charge to 100% I never let it sit at that state of charge for more than a few hours.
Yes, I am very meticulous, and as soon as the warnings come on, I stop and take a picture of the dash readings.
Always reset the economy and trip odometer for each of these tests.

How many additional kWh are supposed to be available from 100% to 80% SOC. If I recall, it rarely gets me 10 more miles of range.

I do believe that on a long highway trip, at the same 4.0 economy, I believe the range will be a little better.

But nowhere what some others are getting on this forum.

On a side note: Today I talked to a few LEAF owners at the Grand opening event for the Downtown Nissan Quick charger.
They all said they easily got over 50 miles from 80% to LBW.

I was also watching the DC QC rate of charge on a couple different LEAFS.
I was surprised that even at 85% indicated charge (on the Aerovironment Unit), the thing was pushing about 11,000 watts!

LEAF 1:
65% Charge Displayed, 51amps x 393 volts. 8min, 40 sec elapsed.
85% Charge Displayed, 28amps x 393 volts, 20 minutes elapsed.

LEAF 2:
54% Charge Displayed, 106amps x 392 volts, 1min, 2 sec elapsed

I am still surprised that in only 8.4 miles after charging to 80%, I drop 3 bars (10 bars to 7 bars) with a 3.8 mi/kWh dash reading. I know the GOM bars are meaningless, but still, I can't imagine the bars are supposed to drop that fast!

If anyone has a Gidmeter I can borrow for about 2 weeks (I would be willing to rent for $50). In the Los Angeles/Ventura County area, I would drive out there to pick it up, and leave you collateral or a security deposit if you would like. Would be good data for the Forum on my 6 month old, 4500 mile LEAF.

 

[Yogi62]

Your efficiency seams low for a mild climate.

How hard are you driving?
Do you accelerate using more than two bubbles?
Do you have to press the brake peddle at more than 10 MPH?
Do you go the limit? +5 ? - 5?
Tires at 42-44?
Do you use cruise control?
Do you use neutral.

Actually, a shot of carwings showing you average energy per mile/ regen per mile /accessories per mile would be REALLY informative.

I would recommend getting your efficiency up so you don't EVER hit LBW.

Hitting LBW and VLBW so often can't be helping your degradation.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Math is wrong, Tony, though it doesn't change the results much.

80% charge is actually about 84% of a 100% charge....

Would love to see what the GID count is after 80-100% charges along with what the car reports as it's Ah capacity.

Oh, ya, there were plenty in there. Fixed, although I just used 80%; plus, I completely forgot the actual number anyway. On the Rav4, it appears to be exactly 80% of usable (41.8 * 0.8 - 33.44kWh)

Besides, that 84% is really 84% of 100% which includes at least 2% that we can never use. So, using the uber accurate formula where:

Gids -- Gid%
281 = 100% (new condition fully charged battery)
235 = 83.6% (that 80% charge with a new condition battery)

but,

5 = functionally dead car (about 2% SOC remaining)
235 = ((235 - 5) / (281 - 5)) = 83.3%

therefore,

5 = ((5 - 5) / (281 - 5)) = 0%




SOC% - "kWh usable" --Gid----Gid%---Gid2%---2013 dash % (2013 dash % data based on SOC%, not Gids)
95.x% -21.0--Full----281---100%---100%----100% (non-degraded at 70F; 21kWh usable)

 

[TonyWilliams]

Would be good data for the Forum on my 6 month old, 4500 mile LEAF.

Get the Kyocera EVent Android phone (or use yours) from Best Buy, et al, (about $80), get the eBay OBD2 Bluetooth adaptor ($20), and download the app folks are using. If you already have or can borrow the phone, you'll be into it for about $20. It doesn't show Gids without a bit of wiring, but it has plenty of other great data for cheap. Link is here.

Otherwise, I wouldn't throw $50 away when I'm sure it would be a wise investment to have any of the multitude of Gidmeters out there.

By the way, you car is not that unusual. My 2012 LEAF, built in Japan in April 2012, with about 7000 miles had 10% capacity loss 5 months from production date in September 2012.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Your efficiency seams low for a mild climate....
I would recommend getting your efficiency up so you don't EVER hit LBW.

His efficiency has nothing to due with battery capacity loss. Whether he had 3 miles/kWh or 5, the capacity will still be down about 10-20%. That's what he is trying to determine.